NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #2

[raiders444]

I recently finished "I'll Be Gone In The Dark" about the GSK....great read for those looking for something in true crime genre. Anyway, because the GSK or EAR/ONS was so elusive for so many years, amateur sleuths and LE had to examine new ways to try to figure out who he was. Geo profiling was one interesting method they mentioned. Another was done by the author's research partner, involving a very labor intensive examining of known residents in the areas the GSK struck during those years, then slowly eliminating people from this list. It got me to thinking- could the killer be found by taking cell phone ping data from that night, and slowly working through the list and eliminating until you have a short list of potentials? I realize this could be an enormous task just looking at every ping from say 3 am until 10 am...people in cars driving by, etc. But if LE focused on multiple pings lets say over the course of an hour- however long they feel it took for someone to gain entry, commit the murder, clean up and leave. maybe this would turn up some new names? All of this of course assumes the perp had a cell phone

 

[Webthrush]

I recently finished "I'll Be Gone In The Dark" about the GSK....great read for those looking for something in true crime genre. Anyway, because the GSK or EAR/ONS was so elusive for so many years, amateur sleuths and LE had to examine new ways to try to figure out who he was. Geo profiling was one interesting method they mentioned. Another was done by the author's research partner, involving a very labor intensive examining of known residents in the areas the GSK struck during those years, then slowly eliminating people from this list. It got me to thinking- could the killer be found by taking cell phone ping data from that night, and slowly working through the list and eliminating until you have a short list of potentials? I realize this could be an enormous task just looking at every ping from say 3 am until 10 am...people in cars driving by, etc. But if LE focused on multiple pings lets say over the course of an hour- however long they feel it took for someone to gain entry, commit the murder, clean up and leave. maybe this would turn up some new names? All of this of course assumes the perp had a cell phone

I don't think this is practical as indicated in part in this 2014 piece:
What Your Cell Phone Can’t Tell the Police
I'm also not sure if privacy laws permit such a dragnet approach??? Maybe one our legal eagles can speak to any privacy concerns LE must follow with cell ph. ping data.

 

[J.M. Bee]

The logic is that since the door had a deadbolt, there was no way to lock it without the key, and since they were sharing a key, she had to leave it for Faith if Faith was going to be able to lock up.

Except this "logic" makes no sense. She left the door unlocked all night with her roommate sleeping within so that her roommate would be able to lock it the next morning at some point? Why was it so important to lock it in the daytime but so unimportant to lock it overnight? If you say this was because neither of them would have been in the apartment during the daytime, OK, then why wouldn't she lock up as she left and either (i) put the key in a hiding spot where Faith could find it the next day or (ii) return the next morning in time to leave for school with Faith?

I'm sorry, but <modsnip - personalizing> repeated attempts to explain away the issue of the key are unconvincing. Not only does the supposed "logic" of her decision not make sense, Eve Carson had been murdered nearby just four years prior and Karena's violent ex lived in the same apartment complex. The notion that she would simply leave the apartment unlocked overnight --- when she had other, better options --- is not believable.

 

[Webthrush]

Except this "logic" makes no sense. She left the door unlocked all night with her roommate sleeping within so that her roommate would be able to lock it the next morning at some point? Why was it so important to lock it in the daytime but so unimportant to lock it overnight? If you say this was because neither of them would have been in the apartment during the daytime, OK, then why wouldn't she lock up as she left and either (i) put the key in a hiding spot where Faith could find it the next day or (ii) return the next morning in time to leave for school with Faith?

I'm sorry, but <modsnip - personalizing> repeated attempts to explain away the issue of the key are unconvincing. Not only does the supposed "logic" of her decision not make sense, Eve Carson had been murdered nearby just four years prior and Karena's violent ex lived in the same apartment complex. The notion that she would simply leave the apartment unlocked overnight --- when she had other, better options --- is not believable.

well, I'll take a different tact: IF KR deliberately left the door unlocked so a perp could gain entry WHY in the world would she tell the police she left the door unlocked (and thus draw suspicion). Why not just say 'I locked the door behind me, and someone must've knocked and Faith let them in.' Why would she tell the police definitively she left the door unlocked, unless this was simply common practice for them to do?
Again we're all shooting in the dark here, because the police have already no doubt grilled her on this point and have an explanation that either is or is not satisfying to them.

 

[CADwrest]

Except this "logic" makes no sense. She left the door unlocked all night with her roommate sleeping within so that her roommate would be able to lock it the next morning at some point? Why was it so important to lock it in the daytime but so unimportant to lock it overnight? If you say this was because neither of them would have been in the apartment during the daytime, OK, then why wouldn't she lock up as she left and either (i) put the key in a hiding spot where Faith could find it the next day or (ii) return the next morning in time to leave for school with Faith?

I'm sorry, but <modsnip - personalizing> repeated attempts to explain away the issue of the key are unconvincing. Not only does the supposed "logic" of her decision not make sense, Eve Carson had been murdered nearby just four years prior and Karena's violent ex lived in the same apartment complex. The notion that she would simply leave the apartment unlocked overnight --- when she had other, better options --- is not believable.

Wow. This thread begins to feel like Groundhog Day.

Since I’m uninterested in re-litigating the unlocked door for what would probably be the fifth time, let’s just agree to disagree, shall we? I’ll continue to believe that “horny drunk college girl just wants to get on with her hook-up and irresponsibly leaves the door unlocked” is more likely than “evil genius murderess deliberately leaves it unlocked to provide herself an alibi,” even if that is, inexplicably, a minority viewpoint.

 

[scadagirl28]

Speaking of the hookup, Why was Faith the first to try and facilitate that between BE and KR ? "She needs you more than you know " also sounds ,imo ,a little dramatic for the occasion.

 

[CADwrest]

Speaking of the hookup, Why was Faith the first to try and facilitate that between BE and KR ? "She needs you more than you know " also sounds ,imo ,a little dramatic for the occasion.

KR was trying to call him before Faith started texting him, if memory serves.

As to the drama, I think KR was probably getting very frustrated at her inability to connect (in multiple ways) with BE, and that was evident to Faith, even in the other room.

 

[scadagirl28]

Timeline 2012 Are there calls missing from 2:38am to 3:40am ?

 

[anticitizen]

Except this "logic" makes no sense. She left the door unlocked all night with her roommate sleeping within so that her roommate would be able to lock it the next morning at some point? Why was it so important to lock it in the daytime but so unimportant to lock it overnight

Put yourself in the mindset of a couple of 18 year old girls living in a relatively safe-seeming apartment complex (not the ghetto). It's inconceivable that a random rapist/murderer is going to enter. They're probably more worried about a thief slipping in and burglarizing the place if they leave it unlocked and unattended.

Look at it this way: it wouldn't seem abnormal to leave your car doors unlocked when you're in the car, but when you walk away from the car, you lock it, right? But if you're just running into a store to buy something, and you have a passenger in the car, you leave them alone in there with your keys and the car unlocked while you make the run.

Same logic, only an apartment instead of a car.

 

[Simplestarz86]

KR was trying to call him before Faith started texting him, if memory serves.

As to the drama, I think KR was probably getting very frustrated at her inability to connect (in multiple ways) with BE, and that was evident to Faith, even in the other room.

Except Faith texted BE 4 minutes before KR started her consecutive phone calls to BE. Faith texted at 3:40 and then again at 3:43 to correct first text. IMO, I always thought that was odd. Usually, IMO, if you make a mistake texting you usually see it right away and send the correction immediately. In texting world 3 minutes is a long time. IMO. Faith then texts Ty at 3:52...KR calls BE: 3:44,3:52,3:55, and 4:14. I find the timing of the texts and calls suspicious. IMO, there seemed to be a lot of desperation in the calls and content of the text messages. The fact her Facebook page was accessed around 3:30-3:40 (cannot remember the exact time at the moment) and it has mostly been stating “someone” accessed her Facebook makes me think LE knows it wasn’t her, which is why I question if it was actually Faith making those text messages. IMO, I think Faith was killed in Karena’s presence. The first thought of whoever was involved was to get either Ty or BE to come to the apartment to “discover” Faith. Leaving the door unlocked would make it easy for either one of them to just walk in. JMO. I am further more concerned that the CI, from what I’ve been told, is a relative of ETJ. Perhaps something happened that the CI saw, knew, or participated in...which could create quite the mess for the department he “worked” with...all IMO. Just thoughts. It’s late so if it doesn’t make sense-my apologies. #JusticeforFaith

 

[Simplestarz86]

But in the example you gave was someone running in and out of somewhere quick with a passenger who I assume is awake and if not I’d lock the car, not leaving for an entire “night” with a person, no best friend-like a sister, to be vulnerable while sleeping. JMO.

Put yourself in the mindset of a couple of 18 year old girls living in a relatively safe-seeming apartment complex (not the ghetto). It's inconceivable that a random rapist/murderer is going to enter. They're probably more worried about a thief slipping in and burglarizing the place if they leave it unlocked and unattended.

Look at it this way: it wouldn't seem abnormal to leave your car doors unlocked when you're in the car, but when you walk away from the car, you lock it, right? But if you're just running into a store to buy something, and you have a passenger in the car, you leave them alone in there with your keys and the car unlocked while you make the run.

Same logic, only an apartment instead of a car.

 

[CADwrest]

Except Faith texted BE 4 minutes before KR started her consecutive phone calls to BE. Faith texted at 3:40 and then again at 3:43 to correct first text. IMO, I always thought that was odd. Usually, IMO, if you make a mistake texting you usually see it right away and send the correction immediately. In texting world 3 minutes is a long time. IMO. Faith then texts Ty at 3:52...KR calls BE: 3:44,3:52,3:55, and 4:14. I find the timing of the texts and calls suspicious. IMO, there seemed to be a lot of desperation in the calls and content of the text messages. The fact her Facebook page was accessed around 3:30-3:40 (cannot remember the exact time at the moment) and it has mostly been stating “someone” accessed her Facebook makes me think LE knows it wasn’t her, which is why I question if it was actually Faith making those text messages. (snipped)

I stand corrected about the call/text timeline. That's what I get for not double-checking.

One thing to note, though, is that we don't know for sure that we've been told about all the calls and texts for either Faith or KR. In fact, it's virtually certain that we haven't been told about all of them. We knew about all the texts and calls from the girls to BE since 2014, but we only found out about Faith's text to TM this past April. There may well have been others. We've never been given any information about KR's communications with JM, be they calls or texts, but we know they had to have taken place (otherwise, how would he know to come get her?). So the appearance of a flurry of calls and texts might not have actually been reality, either or both of them may have been quite actively texting/calling for an extended period of time.

IMO, I think Faith was killed in Karena’s presence. The first thought of whoever was involved was to get either Ty or BE to come to the apartment to “discover” Faith. Leaving the door unlocked would make it easy for either one of them to just walk in. JMO.

OK, let's dig into that. In regards to TM (Ty), the text message actually doesn't make any request of him. It's lovey-dovey and sweet. So if the intent is to get him to come over, it's very ineffective (as indeed, he didn't). Of course, it's not unheard of for a guy to get a text like that and take it as an invitation, but that leaves a lot to chance (he might just call and see what she's thinking). If it's a decoy text with that intent, a far more effective way to get a guy's attention is just a "Hey- can you to come over right now?" Any interested guy who gets a text like that at 3 or 4AM is going to immediately get the message and start looking for his car keys.

The alternative theory (that KR planned to leave with JM, and called BE so he'd show up looking for her and discover Faith) makes even less sense if you're KR trying to create an alibi. For one, it would have meant Faith was discovered about 7 hours earlier. Considering KR would have left mere minutes before, that would establish that she had to have been present when the murder took place, instead of providing a 7 hour window (most of which she was gone for). Second, though, the texts to BE are exactly what I just described above- a very direct invitation. They're by Faith on KR's behalf, but KR calling him multiple times establishes she's trying to get him there too. Deliberately drawing him over there only for him to find that KR's mysteriously not present but Faith's dead body is would not help her escape suspicion: It would immediately make her Suspect #1 to LE.

I do wish we had a complete text/call log from the night, because that would help figure out questions like that. You might be on to something if KR arranged the JM hook-up before she started up with BE. I think the idea is a lot less likely if she didn't start trying to get up with JM until it was clear BE wasn't going to respond.

 

[anticitizen]

But in the example you gave was someone running in and out of somewhere quick with a passenger who I assume is awake and if not I’d lock the car, not leaving for an entire “night” with a person, no best friend-like a sister, to be vulnerable while sleeping. JMO.

Since Faith was still in the house, wouldn't it be her job to lock the door, not Karena's?

To go back to the car analogy, if I leave a friend sitting in the car while I run into a store, I don't lock the doors, but they have the ability to lock the doors themselves if they feel unsafe, and then unlock when I return.

I'm just having trouble reading anything into the door being locked or unlocked.

 

[Simplestarz86]

Since Faith was still in the house, wouldn't it be her job to lock the door, not Karena's?

Yes but Faith was asleep. That is what KR told LE.

To go back to the car analogy, if I leave a friend sitting in the car while I run into a store, I don't lock the doors, but they have the ability to lock the doors themselves if they feel unsafe, and then unlock when I return.

I'm just having trouble reading anything into the door being locked or unlocked.

 

[Simplestarz86]

One thing to note, though, is that we don't know for sure that we've been told about all the calls and texts for either Faith or KR. In fact, it's virtually certain that we haven't been told about all of them. We knew about all the texts and calls from the girls to BE since 2014, but we only found out about Faith's text to TM this past April. There may well have been others. We've never been given any information about KR's communications with JM, be they calls or texts, but we know they had to have taken place (otherwise, how would he know to come get her?).

BBM. Absolutely not all the phone information has been released. The reason I found the text to Ty so odd was the fact that one of her BFF says it didn’t sound like Faith and Faith had just mentioned she wanted to be back with her hometown sweetheart...KD also states that if Faith didn’t answer a text he would come looking for her. So he texts around 6:45? To see if they r still getting together and then she doesn’t respond. Faith’s friend states that if Faith didn’t reply it’s because she was over that situation. From what we know IMO he wouldn’t have taken it well. So the text sent to him at 3:52 AM IMO would be in response to his earlier text but the person who wrote it didn’t know that Faith was over Ty. Trying to get him over there. We do know owot KR texted JM around 4:27am when he arrived to pick her up.

 

[CADwrest]

BBM. Absolutely not all the phone information has been released. The reason I found the text to Ty so odd was the fact that one of her BFF says it didn’t sound like Faith and Faith had just mentioned she wanted to be back with her hometown sweetheart...KD also states that if Faith didn’t answer a text he would come looking for her. So he texts around 6:45? To see if they r still getting together and then she doesn’t respond. Faith’s friend states that if Faith didn’t reply it’s because she was over that situation. From what we know IMO he wouldn’t have taken it well. So the text sent to him at 3:52 AM IMO would be in response to his earlier text but the person who wrote it didn’t know that Faith was over Ty. Trying to get him over there. We do know owot KR texted JM around 4:27am when he arrived to pick her up.[/b]

BBM. My experience from college, though, was that this sort of thing happened all the time. At lunch, you'd talk to one of your friends about her love interest, and she'd be upset and telling you she was done with him, it's over, that was his last chance. Then later that night you'd go to a party and they'd be there together like nothing had happened, and you'd just roll your eyes and go get your first drink.

The other thing, though, is that if EC (I think that's who you're referring to as her BFF) knew Faith was done with him, wouldn't KR have known too? KR spent the entire rest of the night with Faith.

 

[Simplestarz86]

BBM. My experience from college, though, was that this sort of thing happened all the time. At lunch, you'd talk to one of your friends about her love interest, and she'd be upset and telling you she was done with him, it's over, that was his last chance. Then later that night you'd go to a party and they'd be there together like nothing had happened, and you'd just roll your eyes and go get your first drink.

The other thing, though, is that if EC (I think that's who you're referring to as her BFF) knew Faith was done with him, wouldn't KR have known too? KR spent the entire rest of the night with Faith.

You would think...I got the impression from EC that Faith was backing away from KR and seemed loke she wanted her own space from KR.

 

[Boodles]

Since Faith was still in the house, wouldn't it be her job to lock the door, not Karena's?

To go back to the car analogy, if I leave a friend sitting in the car while I run into a store, I don't lock the doors, but they have the ability to lock the doors themselves if they feel unsafe, and then unlock when I return.

I'm just having trouble reading anything into the door being locked or unlocked.

If you husband/wife/roommate is asleep when you leave, don’t you lock the door? (Yes!) I had a friend who was raped when her roommate left in the morning, leaving the door unlocked. That was decades ago.

IMO, the deal about KR saying that she left the door unlocked is that this was supposed to support the notion that a ”stranger came in and killed her” (no forced entry). It’s part of her alibi. Drunk Karena must have sobered up quickly to remember so clearly leaving the door unlocked. MOO

 

[anticitizen]

Drunk Karena must have sobered up quickly to remember so clearly leaving the door unlocked. MOO

As has been stated, it's been reported that they shared a key to the place, and it's a deadbolt lock, so Karena couldn't have locked the door unless she also took the key, which would leave Faith without a way to lock the door if she left in the morning before Karena returned.

Is leaving the door unlocked irresponsible? Sure, but if you've ever lived in a roommate situation as a young person in a college setting, it sounds 100% natural to me... people coming and going all the time, partying and drinking, last person to leave locks up... it may not be a good thing, but it's not at all suspicious or out of the ordinary IMO.

I lived in a house that was converted to student apartments in my student days, and we had a communal living room/kitchen. Nobody EVER locked the front door. But each bedroom had its own lock (a real lock, not your typical bathroom door style lock). I'd walk through and there would be some stranger sitting on the couch watching TV, and I'd just say hey and go on to the kitchen, lol. They were always friends or guests of one of the other 4 people who lived there.

College living is... different. Everybody is everywhere, and crashing on other peoples' couches, etc. More than once I woke up on a stranger's couch to find that everyone else had left and I was alone in a strange apartment, and had to let myself out. There's something fun about living like that too, until someone is murdered of course.

 

[Simplestarz86]

This yes!!!

It’s part of her alibi. Drunk Karena must have sobered up quickly to remember so clearly leaving the door unlocked. MOO