NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #3

[CADwrest]

Just a reminder that Thurs. is next scheduled court appearance by Olivares, though I don’t recall what exactly gets done at this time, or if there's much chance of any new info coming out? Is this when he enters a plea? Can anyone fill us in on the possible court steps going forward?
With death penalty taken off table I assume there’s less chance of any plea agreement and more assurance of a trial going forward (or other possibilities)? And is a change of venue likely? IF he were to plead guilty (which I doubt) would there only be a penalty trial phase to work through??? Just curious what different legal maneuvers may lie ahead, or just wait ’til Thur. to get a hint…

I can't seem to find much that's useful.
I looked him up on the inmate population search (Inmate Population Search | Durham County Sheriff - it's alphabetical and they use Oliveras as the last name)and at least got a docket number: 21CR054671. Clicking his name brings you to this page: VINELink . There's not really anything especially interesting there.
I tried looking up the Durham County criminal court calendar for 10/7/2021 (https://www1.aoc.state.nc.us/www/da...RICT_CRIMINAL_COURT_.10.07.21.AM.004D.CAL.txt) but his name doesn't seem to be on there for tomorrow. I'm not sure if I'm looking in the wrong place though or what.
ETA: I found an "offender" number which is B83207

 

[fluffypaste]

Just a reminder that Thurs. is next scheduled court appearance by Olivares, though I don’t recall what exactly gets done at this time, or if there's much chance of any new info coming out? Is this when he enters a plea? Can anyone fill us in on the possible court steps going forward?
With death penalty taken off table I assume there’s less chance of any plea agreement and more assurance of a trial going forward (or other possibilities)? And is a change of venue likely? IF he were to plead guilty (which I doubt) would there only be a penalty trial phase to work through??? Just curious what different legal maneuvers may lie ahead, or just wait ’til Thur. to get a hint…

I'm pretty sure that the arraignment is just a plea. And in a case like this, the initial plea will always be "Not Guilty" because the sides haven't had an opportunity to discuss possible plea deals yet. Unfortunately, it will probably be well over 12 months until this case goes to trial (if it does go to trial). If there ends up being some kind of plea deal, it could get resolved sooner than that, but I honestly hope that doesn't happen.

 

[Sikkim]

The only reason I’ve long thought there must be 2 perps is that despite her many defensive wounds, indicating she struggled mightily (and Faith, while smallish, was very fit/athletic), hardly any significant sounds were heard by neighbors — I can’t imagine one person stifling her THAT effectively, but can imagine one perp manhandling her and muffling her voice with hand or cloth while the other assaulted.
I think it possible 2 perps went there looking for both KR & Faith, and hoping for "good time" but finding Faith alone took advantage of the situation.

It's pretty easy for a man to overpower a woman, even a fit one. DNA points to a single perpetrator

 

[Sikkim]

The only reason I’ve long thought there must be 2 perps is that despite her many defensive wounds, indicating she struggled mightily (and Faith, while smallish, was very fit/athletic), hardly any significant sounds were heard by neighbors — I can’t imagine one person stifling her THAT effectively, but can imagine one perp manhandling her and muffling her voice with hand or cloth while the other assaulted.
I think it possible 2 perps went there looking for both KR & Faith, and hoping for "good time" but finding Faith alone took advantage of the situation.

It's pretty easy for a man to overpower a woman, even a fit one. DNA points to a single perpetrator

 

[Webthrush]

It's pretty easy for a man to overpower a woman, even a fit one. DNA points to a single perpetrator

well, here's the thing, at some point an individual had to reach for and grab a rum bottle leaving only one hand free to simultaneously control Faith's fighting body and voice -- granted it may have been a quick, momentary maneuver, but I'm not sure that one individual alone could've kept her from screaming (though, yes, anything is possible; perhaps he had already stuffed a sock or something down her throat by then).
The apt. would've been full of 'touch' DNA (and fingerprints as well); I don't know how much of it was ever gathered, sorted, and analyzed other than what was on the pen, bag, and bottle (which is what came from one individual)?

 

[Curious_in_NC]

well, here's the thing, at some point an individual had to reach for and grab a rum bottle leaving only one hand free to simultaneously control Faith's fighting body and voice -- granted it may have been a quick, momentary maneuver, but I'm not sure that one individual alone could've kept her from screaming (though, yes, anything is possible; perhaps he had already stuffed a sock or something down her throat by then).
The apt. would've been full of 'touch' DNA (and fingerprints as well); I don't know how much of it was ever gathered, sorted, and analyzed other than what was on the pen, bag, and bottle (which is what came from one individual)?

I don't know. The fact that a second 19 yo Guatemalan was later tried and convicted of a quite similar, but non-lethal, attack a short distance away in Carrboro, and on the same night, leaves open the possibility that he was also somehow involved in the Hedgepeth murder. So I can't entirely discount the 2 person theory. It's such a very unusual coincidence in a place like this. Obviously they should have his DNA too so I can't quite reconcile his involvement unless he just didn't leave any at the Hedgepeth scene. MOO

 

[fluffypaste]

I don't know. The fact that a second 19 yo Guatemalan was later tried and convicted of a quite similar, but non-lethal, attack a short distance away in Carrboro, and on the same night, leaves open the possibility that he was also somehow involved in the Hedgepeth murder. So I can't entirely discount the 2 person theory. It's such a very unusual coincidence in a place like this. Obviously they should have his DNA too so I can't quite reconcile his involvement unless he just didn't leave any at the Hedgepeth scene. MOO

In my opinion, any theory which involves more than 1 perpetrator inevitably falls apart because of the physical evidence. The cops have never even hinted of having DNA or fingerprints, or any kind of physical evidence, for more than 1 person.

 

[Webthrush]

In my opinion, any theory which involves more than 1 perpetrator inevitably falls apart because of the physical evidence. The cops have never even hinted of having DNA or fingerprints, or any kind of physical evidence, for more than 1 person.

I don't want to go round-and-round on this tooooo much, but they have said they are still investigating and that there could be other arrests (they may even still be closer to the beginning of their investigation than to the end, JMO).
And again, I just don't think we know for sure what DNA/fingerprint evidence that they collected was never made public (a lot of stuff has never been made public on this case).
Anyway, it's Thursday, anybody seen/heard anything yet about the arraignment hearing?

 

[Curious_in_NC]

In my opinion, any theory which involves more than 1 perpetrator inevitably falls apart because of the physical evidence. The cops have never even hinted of having DNA or fingerprints, or any kind of physical evidence, for more than 1 person.

I think you're giving CH police too much credit. They probably have less than one homicide a year to investigate. IIRC they didn't even interview most of the neighbors. It's hard to say how completely they documented other evidence at the apartment. Apart from the note and murder weapon, there were probably all kinds of fingerprints or DNA everywhere they would have had to sort through in an apartment of two young women which had been recently visited by many of their friends.

 

[CADwrest]

Anyway, it's Thursday, anybody seen/heard anything yet about the arraignment hearing?

No, and I’ve been checking all morning.

 

[Boodles]

I don't want to go round-and-round on this tooooo much, but they have said they are still investigating and that there could be other arrests (they may even still be closer to the beginning of their investigation than to the end, JMO).
And again, I just don't think we know for sure what DNA/fingerprint evidence that they collected was never made public (a lot of stuff has never been made public on this case).
Anyway, it's Thursday, anybody seen/heard anything yet about the arraignment hearing?

Not a darn peep, and I’ve been watching. Perhaps it was rescheduled? I can only find a court date for yesterday in Wake county for fake vehicle registration and open container charges.

 

[CADwrest]

I think you're giving CH police too much credit. They probably have less than one homicide a year to investigate. IIRC they didn't even interview most of the neighbors.

BBM
They did, just not in a particularly effective way. In one of Gaspo's Pursuit Podcast episodes, he talked to a woman from the neighborhood who gave CHPD a brief interview the day of the murder, but sensed pretty much immediately that what she was telling them wasn't what they were looking for. Then they came back a month or so later and were apparently kind of rude. She finally ended up calling in to report her tip (which she still hadn't been able to completely relay) and they were really dismissive. It doesn't sound like her tip was relevant in the end, but they couldn't have known that the day of the murder.
I'm pretty sure in another post from the Gaspo writes blog, he talked about CHPD being back at Hawthorne interviewing people in September 2013, a full year later. Waiting that kind of time to canvass like that is very ineffective, since people forget non-essential stuff pretty quickly. Someone could have even seen Miguel walking around that morning and just not remembered it if they weren't asked for an entire year later.
You can't even really totally blame the ETJ focus for that, since they apparently realized his DNA didn't match pretty quickly.

 

[Webthrush]

So odd… nothing on the news… are bureaucratic snafus or re-schedulings commonplace in the court system??? (would’ve expected even a re-scheduling for this case to get a news mention). Or is something weird going on?

 

[Boodles]

So odd… nothing on the news… are bureaucratic snafus or re-schedulings commonplace in the court system??? (would’ve expected even a re-scheduling for this case to get a news mention). Or is something weird going on?

Its hard to say. When they announced (last week?) that they would not seek the death penalty, I wondered if maybe he’s cooperating with the “further investigation.” If so, and if the “cooperation” pans out, maybe that results in a plea deal.

This is just me totally wondering about the case. I’ve not heard anything about any cooperation. I’m not trying to start any rumors. But that might explain why there was apparently no hearing today. JMO and all that.

 

[CADwrest]

Its hard to say. When they announced (last week?) that they would not seek the death penalty, I wondered if maybe he’s cooperating with the “further investigation.” If so, and if the “cooperation” pans out, maybe that results in a plea deal.

This is just me totally wondering about the case. I’ve not heard anything about any cooperation. I’m not trying to start any rumors. But that might explain why there was apparently no hearing today. JMO and all that.

I had the same thought about the death penalty announcement. It was pretty much a given Durham county wouldn’t seek it, but I thought maybe they’d at least keep it on the table as a bargaining chip. Maybe there is some negotiation going on behind the scenes and the announcement and hearing date change are part of it.

 

[Webthrush]

Most of the news reports I see simply refer to Oct. 7 as Olivares’ “next hearing” but once I saw it referenced as a “probable cause hearing” and once as an “arraignment hearing” which seem to me to be two similar but slightly different things? (or maybe I'm wrong)… Can one of you legal eagles maybe explain again what the proper term is and what normally transpires (are specific charges detailed; is an initial plea given or evidence put forth for proceeding toward trial; or is it more general than all that).

 

[CADwrest]

This is sort of a side discussion, but I was thinking about whether or not he might plead guilty in exchange for being charged with a lesser crime than first degree murder. For instance, if his story is that he was raping her, and she bit him (one of the scenarios @Webthrush often articulates), and only then does he kill her, in some states that would be second degree murder.
Not in NC, though: The Basics of Felony Murder
Playing armchair lawyer, under the felony murder law, it looks like he gets hit with first degree even if it wasn't premeditated, if it happened in the commission of a felony. Rape is specifically listed as one the the felonies that triggers felony murder. So if that's his story (no idea if it is or not, just speculating), it's not going to help him any.
I'm just trying to figure out what he could get if he does agree to plea. I don't think the prosecutor is really looking to cut deals here, but I just don't see what could really even be on the table.

 

[Webthrush]

This is sort of a side discussion, but I was thinking about whether or not he might plead guilty in exchange for being charged with a lesser crime than first degree murder. For instance, if his story is that he was raping her, and she bit him (one of the scenarios @Webthrush often articulates), and only then does he kill her, in some states that would be second degree murder.
Not in NC, though: The Basics of Felony Murder
Playing armchair lawyer, under the felony murder law, it looks like he gets hit with first degree even if it wasn't premeditated, if it happened in the commission of a felony. Rape is specifically listed as one the the felonies that triggers felony murder. So if that's his story (no idea if it is or not, just speculating), it's not going to help him any.
I'm just trying to figure out what he could get if he does agree to plea. I don't think the prosecutor is really looking to cut deals here, but I just don't see what could really even be on the table.

yeah, I'd already gone down the rabbit hole of understanding "felony murder" and then being surprised when they took the death penalty off the table so quickly... now, the lack of news makes me nervous that LE has found nothing whatsoever to link Olivares to the crime other than DNA, which as good as it is, I don't think will be good enough to win a conviction by itself, 'beyond a reasonable doubt,' (not if the defense lawyer is any good). Maybe Olivares is spilling his guts about others, and giving up that info as part of plea deal... or maybe there's just some simple explanation for the delay of hearing (illness or absence of a key person). Hope we learn soon.

 

[fluffypaste]

yeah, I'd already gone down the rabbit hole of understanding "felony murder" and then being surprised when they took the death penalty off the table so quickly... now, the lack of news makes me nervous that LE has found nothing whatsoever to link Olivares to the crime other than DNA, which as good as it is, I don't think will be good enough to win a conviction by itself, 'beyond a reasonable doubt,' (not if the defense lawyer is any good). Maybe Olivares is spilling his guts about others, and giving up that info as part of plea deal... or maybe there's just some simple explanation for the delay of hearing (illness or absence of a key person). Hope we learn soon.

The thing is that in cases like this, the prosecution having DNA (especially DNA from semen) puts the defense in a weird position where they have to somehow provide an innocent excuse for how the DNA ended up where it did.

This means they usually end up having to push some bizarre story which involves the defendant somehow accidentally killing the victim during consensual sex. And from what I've seen, that never works. And if it did somehow end up working, the person could still probably be convicted of manslaughter.

Here's another thing you should thing about when considering felony murder with regards to this case. Burglary is almost always one of the enumerated felonies that can trigger the felony murder rule. And breaking into an apartment and committing an assault within would qualify as a burglary.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

The thing is that in cases like this, the prosecution having DNA (especially DNA from semen) puts the defense in a weird position where they have to somehow provide an innocent excuse for how the DNA ended up where it did.

This means they usually end up having to push some bizarre story which involves the defendant somehow accidentally killing the victim during consensual sex. And from what I've seen, that never works. And if it did somehow end up working, the person could still probably be convicted of manslaughter.

Here's another thing you should thing about when considering felony murder with regards to this case. Burglary is almost always one of the enumerated felonies that can trigger the felony murder rule. And breaking into an apartment and committing an assault within would qualify as a burglary.

I think part of the issue with burglary or B&E charges is also that the door wasn't locked so there's not a forcible entry.