NC - Keith Scott, 43, killed by LEO, Charlotte, 20 Sept 2016 #1

[JeannaT]

Watch the balcony video--the officer in the red shirt never moves his foot, just pivots off of it like he has it on top of something (gun).

Can you link the balcony video?

Never mind, found it. It's worse than the "Blair Witch Project" and I get nauseated watching it - and can't see a thing on it, actually, sadly.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article103815426.html

 

[scottiemom]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article103815426.html

 

[cady]

He reportedly had TBI.......my guess is that, while seemingly goofy to us, he had a comforting routine of sitting in his truck every school day to wait for his kid to get off the bus. Neighbors knew the routine. He was probably more confused than anyone has stated. I believe that his wife had NO IDEA that he had a gun. The guy was disabled. JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I'd like to know how debilitating his TBI was. There are so many degrees to that.

How well did he function on a day to day basis? How was his decision making process in general?

But even as I think those things, I realize that if he got out of the car with a gun and approached the cops refusing to drop it, they had to make the decision to handle that threat. They didn't have the pleasure of having his medicinal records to review beforehand. And I don't think that would have mattered in the situation anyway.

JMO

 

[popsicle]

Ok. So on the "waiting for the bus" idea, is the child who gets off the bus so young has has to be met at the bus stop? Say, a child younger than 9 or so? And so Keith would go to the bus stop which was basically the parking lot of his apartment complex, and to get out of the sun/have some place to sit, he'd sit in his truck? And the bus arrival would vary by several minutes so he usually had something to read while he waited in the parking lot? I'm really trying to piece this back together.

Back in the beginning of this case the daughter put out like an hour long video and on it is her brother with his back pack hugging her iirc. He looked to be the same size of T@mir R1ce. jmo

 

[cady]

The question is, was he threatening LE. I think that none of their videos show him doing that so they don't want to release them. He may have had a gun and was not computing their orders and just was standing there after he got out of the truck, with a gun dangling from his left hand. Both hands were reportedly down and at his side. They interpreted that as a threat, and shot him because he did not drop the gun. Tragic. JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The question is, was he threatening LE. I think that none of their videos show him doing that so they don't want to release them. He may have had a gun and was not computing their orders and just was standing there after he got out of the truck, with a gun dangling from his left hand. Both hands were reportedly down and at his side. They interpreted that as a threat, and shot him because he did not drop the gun. Tragic. JMO

Having a gun in your hand and not following orders IS a threat to LE. How long does it take to point and shoot?

I just don't understand how it can be seen as anything other than a threat.

Dropping the gun=not a threat.
Refusing to drop the gun=huge threat.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Especially in that close of a proximity.

 

[CoolJ]

The question is, was he threatening LE. I think that none of their videos show him doing that so they don't want to release them. He may have had a gun and was not computing their orders and just was standing there after he got out of the truck, with a gun dangling from his left hand. Both hands were reportedly down and at his side. They interpreted that as a threat, and shot him because he did not drop the gun. Tragic. JMO

If LE can now legally shoot someone for holding a gun.... Americans are in big trouble. JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

If LE can now legally shoot someone for holding a gun.... Americans are in big trouble. JMO

Not for holding the gun. For refusing to drop the gun when commanded to do so. Big difference.

 

[Dogface]

If LE can now legally shoot someone for holding a gun.... Americans are in big trouble. JMO

Holding a gun(which can be illegal in context) and failing to comply is the issue. Not randomly picking up a gun.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Its not like they just came up, saw him holding a gun, and shot him.
He got back in the car with the gun, refused to get out of the car, then decided to get out with the gun in his hand. After at least 12 times of being told to drop it, he didn't. Then something escalated, we can't see what then they shot.

If those cops felt threatened by his actions (and I personally believe they did) they had every right to defend themselves. Just as you or I would have the right.

 

[cady]

I just wonder if, with TBI, his judgment was impaired, and did not reach the "reasonable person" standard. LE would not have known that....if they did not hear his wife......or did not ACKNOWLEGE....her pleas. JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I just wonder if, with TBI, his judgment was impaired, and did not reach the "reasonable person" standard. LE would not have known that....if they did not hear his wife......or did not ACKNOWLEGE....her pleas. JMO

I agree. There is no way LE knew about his condition before that point.
Even if they did hear/acknowledge the wife when she told then he had a TBI, at that point it wouldn't matter. The situation was life threatening IMO. Her pleas, as heartbreaking as they sound, change nothing if they feel their lives are in immediate danger.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Just as a side note, you can point a gun and pull a trigger if your hand is at your side. The gun does not have to be up in the typical drawn position to fire.
So even if his hand was at his side holding the gun, if he refused to drop it, it was a clear threat.

JMO

 

[cady]

I can't play judge or juror without facts and evidence, so, for now, just waiting for transparency . JMO

 

[CoolJ]

Holding a gun(which can be illegal in context) and failing to comply is the issue. Not randomly picking up a gun.

Non-compliance does not warrant a death sentence.
If this man was holding a gun at his side and disobeying orders, this is not a justified shooting IMO.
If he was raising the gun to point, I can then see it as an immediate threat and lethal force would be justified.
<modsnip>

 

[Dogface]

Non-compliance does not warrant a death sentence.
If this man was holding a gun at his side and disobeying orders, this is not a justified shooting IMO.
If he was raising the gun to point, I can then see it as an immediate threat and lethal force would be justified.
<modsnip>

<modsnip>

But, when you are holding a weapon, it literally takes less time than someone could react to, to fire the gun and cause lethal harm. Failure to comply becomes a death sentence when the person not complying has the ability to inflict grave bodily harm.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Non-compliance does not warrant a death sentence.
If this man was holding a gun at his side and disobeying orders, this is not a justified shooting IMO.
If he was raising the gun to point, I can then see it as an immediate threat and lethal force would be justified.
<modsnip>

You can't shoot from your side?
A gun has to be raised to fire?

 

[Caffeine]

Non-compliance does not warrant a death sentence.
If this man was holding a gun at his side and disobeying orders, this is not a justified shooting IMO.
If he was raising the gun to point, I can then see it as an immediate threat and lethal force would be justified.
<modsnip>

Wait, what?

You're saying a guy with a gun is not a threat unless he carefully raises the gun and takes aim at police?

The police count as human lives. Are they expected to wait until he raises the gun up a few inches? Wait until it's pointed at them with a finger on the trigger? Wait until he fires the first shot?

It takes a split second to raise a gun from your side and part firing off rounds, the fact that a person is even holding a gun and disobeying orders is enough to consider them a threat.


Had he been holding a hammer, sure that would have been a different story. But it seems in the realm of possibility that he in fact did have a gun, refused to put it down.

Certainly that's a reasonably dire situation and to propose that police should basically have to wait until bullets are whizzing past them before they can act upon it is absurd.