GUILTY NC - PFC Kelli Bordeaux, 23, Fayetteville, 14 April 2012 - #10

[Woe.be.gone]

Makes me think it is at least possible the activation they are talking about is actually a text message sent from her phone that LE does not believe she herself sent.
So where did LE get their 12:46 starting point for their time frame?This has to be from a text message that they believe she actually sent.You do not get a odd to the min. time from witness statements.The only text message LE has talked about that they believe she sent was the one about who she was with and how she felt about what was happening and just as importantly they have said this text message was sent after leaving the bar.So this text had to be sent at or before 12:46 and they had already left the bar before 12:46.

LE said they believe that from the overall tone of KB's texts they think they formed a picture of how KB must have been feeling about who she was with. They never said there was a specific text that spelled out what she was feeling. There may be one but they have not released the information.

LE mentions the time range of 12:46 a.m. and 1:24 a.m. I believe it's probable that those times relate to text messages or a phone call but maybe not. Maybe Kelli is thought not to have used her phone past 12:46 so something happened to her at that time, sooner than 1:24. Maybe the tone of Kelli's texts that were sent prior to 12:46 are where LE has gathered their opinion of how Kelli was feeling about the company she was keeping. If so, that broadens the potential subjects beyond only NH. Remember LE DID request input from the public as to if anybody saw/noticed anything around midnight on Ramsey Street. It's such a vague request but LE must think whatever it is they're fishing for might spark a citizen's memory. Midnight is almost an hour and a half prior to 1:24 a.m. Add that LE request to the pot and you get :waitasec:.

We don't know and there's no way to say 'this has to be' or 'for sure'. Also, we don't know why LE releases the little info they do release when they do. It may be so they can gage a reaction of someone or put out a pseudo message of some sort.

I wish we knew specifics but we really don't. We can discuss different scenarios being sure to say that we are discussing a possibility of what happened not what did happen. Unless I missed it, LE has not revealed specific information as to the text wording or times sent. That's why I looked through all the links - to decipher if they had or not.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If you listen to the interviews, especially the most recent one with Kelli's sister, brother and uncle, they have all but made up their mind that NH knows SOMETHING. Whether or not he directly is to blame, they really think he has extremely important details about what occurred that night. If he does know something, we can only hope that he brags about it or lets it slip to another inmate who passes it onto LE. Unfortunately, I am worried that might be the only break they get in the case

They didn't seem to hold any resentment against her husband. They either know something we don't, or their gut is telling them its NH...

BBM ~ For the most part I agree with this post.
What is reaching is to say LE didn't seem to hold any resentment against her husband. LE does not show if they resent anybody and sometimes they allow someone they're watching to relax and treat them neutrally. We don't know 100 percent what LE is thinking or if they have two or three working theories or not. LE did say that they think NH knows more than he's admitted about the night of Friday, April 13th into the 14th. That was said during a PC or was published - not sure.

Repeating that LE is also interested in any activity along Ramsey Street at MIDNIGHT. How does that fit in with that Kelli simply left the bar with NH and now Kelli cannot be found. I ask because we know both Kelli and NH were in FB's around midnight - from what we've been led to believe they had not left the bar yet.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If she had had her phone on all day, and not charged it after work, it is very possible that the battery did die. But, the majority of cell users who are avid texters, would do a mid day charge, if they knew they were going to need the phone that evening. She may have not planned on going out after work, who knows.

BBM ~ Both Kelli's mother and sister are on record saying they knew something about Kelli's plans for Friday night. She told her mom she was going out drinking and she told her sister where she was going because she wanted to partake in karaoke. Olivia believes Kelli had only been to Froggy's one time before (that would be the time Kelli and her friend from out of town played pool with NH).

 

[Madeleine74]

What is reaching is to say LE didn't seem to hold any resentment against her husband.

Professional folks like cops don't investigate with feelings like "resentment." They generally don't have any particular feeling about the suspects or POI they check out and investigate unless it's a crime against a child. They don't disclose information for a few reasons:

1. Protect the case legally so it can be litigated eventually.
2. Not provide any perp with information about what they do have and don't have.
3. Keep details about their investigation private so they maintain case integrity and keep the upper hand.

These folks (crime victims, family members of victims, suspects and family members of suspects) are not LE's family members. LE officers aren't sitting there mad or angry at one of them. They get frustrated if their job is made more difficult, but none of the investigators I've met take crimes personally (unless it's against a child). I've asked them about this because they deal with murder suspects and arrest people who have committed first degree murder. It's their job. It's not personal and their feelers don't get hurt and they don't emote. Ask a cop sometime and see what s/he says. I spoke with 3 homicide detectives and asked them separately.

 

[sundrop]

I've been dealing with cops and detectives for over 20 years. You have no idea what you are talking about. Illusions. You need to look at some of the wrongful conviction cases where despite DNA exonerating the person detectives still think they are guilty. And when a person such as a defense attorney or expert disagrees with them they take it very personally.

Professional folks like cops don't investigate with feelings like "resentment." They generally don't have any particular feeling about the suspects or POI they check out and investigate unless it's a crime against a child. They don't disclose information for a few reasons:

1. Protect the case legally so it can be litigated eventually.
2. Not provide any perp with information about what they do have and don't have.
3. Keep details about their investigation private so they maintain case integrity and keep the upper hand.

These folks (crime victims, family members of victims, suspects and family members of suspects) are not LE's family members. LE officers aren't sitting there mad or angry at one of them. They get frustrated if their job is made more difficult, but none of the investigators I've met take crimes personally (unless it's against a child). I've asked them about this because they deal with murder suspects and arrest people who have committed first degree murder. It's their job. It's not personal and their feelers don't get hurt and they don't emote. Ask a cop sometime and see what s/he says. I spoke with 3 homicide detectives and asked them separately.

 

[Madeleine74]

I've been dealing with cops and detectives for over 20 years. You have no idea what you are talking about. Illusions. You need to look at some of the wrongful conviction cases where despite DNA exonerating the person detectives still think they are guilty.

I know exactly what I've been told by the homicide detectives I've talked to about their emotions and how they see their jobs. I also know what the chief of police in my town thinks. What the heck do "wrongful convictions" have to do with a detective feeling "resentful" towards a family member of a victim? Nothing. What the heck do "wrongful convictions" have to do with Kelli's case? Considering no arrest for the disappearance and likely murder of KB has occurred... absolutely nothing.

 

[FL Gurl]

Praying for searchers going out today and giving up their holiday weekend. Please find Kelli!

 

[fstasi]

One reason would be to confuse investigators. Like, a random* serial killer who is doing this to women for sport who decides to throw a wrench in the scenario to make it look as if they're personal to the victim or the last one to be with the victim.

Who knows? There's not a right way of abducting a person whose body can't be found. There is no reason a sophisticated criminal couldn't twist evidence around to throw off profilers.

*not random random but the kind that would be seeking out their next victim via a social media site or a stalker. Then they sit back and watch as LE tries to figure it out and delight in the fact that they have managed to throw the investigation off course.

your point of view is very interesting, and if you have reason ... I'm afraid will be really difficult to find the person or persons responsible for these crimes. a person who has no connection with the victim, no connection with the site of the kidnapping and cold-blooded enough to arrange a misdirection...
practically a needle in a haystack!

however, I think ...
darden, tennessee, is not new york city. it is a very small town. in fact it isn't even a city, it is a bunch of houses scattered here and there. a microscopic point on the map. and I (always enter into the mind of this maniac) don't ever would ride for six miles, in broad daylight, in a town where everyone knows everyone else (so no one knows me) for going to throw a lunch box on the opposite side of the woods. I'd run and hide at the speed of light.
but that's just my point of view...

the case of kelli is different. send a sms is much easier, faster, and fayetteville is a big city. but...
how many mobile phones could be functioning in the area where the kelli's iphone was detected for the last time? it has been detected in a time when many people are already asleep. if the police was able to isolate the cell phones that was in use from the unused ones, they would restrict the search. a mobile phone hangs up the receiver signal (everyone knows that). if I'm driving, so I'm not calling, my phone will continue to engage the various signals of the receivers, as I drive. fayetteville is a big city, I know, but how many people could be around, at one in the morning, at that place, on a friday night?..

----

I have a request to make:
a user of websleuths has created a 'holly bobo map'. a map that lists all the places of interest in the case of the disappearance of holly bobo (home, work, places where police and volunteers have carried out the research, etc...)

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=...217,-88.175486&spn=0.007617,0.013057&t=h&z=17

I don't live in north carolina (otherwise I would have participated in the research) and I was wondering if any of you could create a 'kelli bordeaux map'
it would help many people to get an idea of the situation...

sorry if I have dwelt...

 

[OldSteve]

One reason would be to confuse investigators. Like, a random* serial killer who is doing this to women for sport who decides to throw a wrench in the scenario to make it look as if they're personal to the victim or the last one to be with the victim.

Who knows? There's not a right way of abducting a person whose body can't be found. There is no reason a sophisticated criminal couldn't twist evidence around to throw off profilers.

*not random random but the kind that would be seeking out their next victim via a social media site or a stalker. Then they sit back and watch as LE tries to figure it out and delight in the fact that they have managed to throw the investigation off course.

Thinking about this - I agree with you, and what I find strange is in recent unsolved cases involving blonde women, there is no video surveillance showing anything really happening - Holly, Lauren, Kelli, Karen Swift...

Mickey Shunick's case is the exception, but there was video.... she looked so similar to Holly, that the solving of her case kinda discounts a crafty SO on the loose.. but then the perp in Mickey's case wasn't crafty since there was video..

 

[chellebelle71]

BBM ~ For the most part I agree with this post.
What is reaching is to say LE didn't seem to hold any resentment against her husband. LE does not show if they resent anybody and sometimes they allow someone they're watching to relax and treat them neutrally. .

I was not referring to LE, I was referring to Kellis brother, sister and uncle. They didn't show resentment towards her husband and they thought NH had more info.

In terms of LE, I only meant to state that they did say they thought NH had more info than he had given up. The chief said that on some press release.

 

[FL Gurl]

Sorry couldn't quote from previous thread but the group jlm mentioned (see below) is not associated in any way with the searchers. I have checked with three of them and this is a group that someone else has set up most likely to get information. Everyone needs to worry more about finding Kelli and not "playing" detective. There are so many people on here that claim to have so much back ground in LE but have such a resentment I just don’t understand. I want to read everyone’s comments after the true facts come out …. How easy will it be to talk with egg on your faces? There have been searches the past two weeks and they will continue. LE is working hard on this case and just because they are not giving out information does not mean they don't have anything. I have a feeling they are close to something ... just a gut feeling.

Quote from jlm.....

jlm
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 11

You can register to receive regular announcements and updates direct from the orgainzers about the searches at this email address: kellibordeauxcase@googlegroups.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jlm; 08-07-2012 at 06:46 PM. Reason: bold stand-out of imp text

 

[sundrop]

The address that jlm mentioned is a part of the findkelli.com web site and it does indeed send out weekly e-mail information on searches. It has been established for months.

Sorry couldn't quote from previous thread but the group jlm mentioned (see below) is not associated in any way with the searchers. I have checked with three of them and this is a group that someone else has set up most likely to get information. Everyone needs to worry more about finding Kelli and not "playing" detective. There are so many people on here that claim to have so much back ground in LE but have such a resentment I just don’t understand. I want to read everyone’s comments after the true facts come out …. How easy will it be to talk with egg on your faces? There have been searches the past two weeks and they will continue. LE is working hard on this case and just because they are not giving out information does not mean they don't have anything. I have a feeling they are close to something ... just a gut feeling.

Quote from jlm.....

jlm
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 11

You can register to receive regular announcements and updates direct from the orgainzers about the searches at this email address: kellibordeauxcase@googlegroups.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jlm; 08-07-2012 at 06:46 PM. Reason: bold stand-out of imp text

 

[FL Gurl]

I assumed that jlm stating "updates direct from the orgaizers" meant the search organizers were part of this group which is a false statement. Obviously, the group does not do accurate updates if they missed the past two searches. I subscribed to this group and unsubscribed this past week when I stated getting information about other cases/news ... I thought it was about Kelli. What does it being established for months have to do with anything? Anyone can create a webpage.

 

[Bravo]

Thank You for the info. This case has just tore me up me from the get go. If Kelli has a twin it's my DIL. God Bless the Searchers. LE who is working this case. Most of all Kelli's Family and Friends :rose: She needs to come home. May Justice be servedlease:

 

[sundrop]

Until this past Sat. there was not a search the previous Sat. which is why nothing was emailed out. The length of time it has been established means that all searches for months have been posted through this group.

I assumed that jlm stating "updates direct from the orgaizers" meant the search organizers were part of this group which is a false statement. Obviously, the group does not do accurate updates if they missed the past two searches. I subscribed to this group and unsubscribed this past week when I stated getting information about other cases/news ... I thought it was about Kelli. What does it being established for months have to do with anything? Anyone can create a webpage.

 

[FL Gurl]

Until this past Sat. there was not a search the previous Sat. which is why nothing was emailed out. The length of time it has been established means that all searches for months have been posted through this group.

You seem to have knowledge about this group. If so then a simple yes or no ... no need to dance around the answer .... am I correct then in stating that the search organizers are not affiliated with this group as insinuated by jlm?

 

[sundrop]

Don't know. I just get messages like the rest of the people on the list. There are a number of outlets on the Internet that post information on pending searches. Any member of that group can send a message to the entire group.

You seem to have knowledge about this group. If so then a simple yes or no ... no need to dance around the answer .... am I correct then in stating that the search organizers are not affiliated with this group as insinuated by jlm?

 

[FL Gurl]

Don't know. I just get messages like the rest of the people on the list. There are a number of outlets on the Internet that post information on pending searches. Any member of that group can send a message to the entire group.

My point! If you don't know then don't make a statement or at least say it's your opinion. I know for a fact this group is not associated with the searchers that's why I clarified what jlm posted. Don't know how you got involved. I don't doubt there are many outlets out there posting things. But no one should represent something as being from the searchers, family, eye witness, LE if it's not. Anyone can say something is official. Props to those here who only speak the fact!

 

[sundrop]

I never said it was associated with the searchers only that information about the searches are sent out, which matches similar information posted at other locations on searches. I think jlm knows now, don't you think? I don't know anything that's being represented from family, eye witnesses or LE. However, no one person or group owns this case, that's for sure.

My point! If you don't know then don't make a statement or at least say it's your opinion. I know for a fact this group is not associated with the searchers that's why I clarified what jlm posted. Don't know how you got involved. I don't doubt there are many outlets out there posting things. But no one should represent something as being from the searchers, family, eye witness, LE if it's not. Anyone can say something is official. Props to those here who only speak the fact!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

your point of view is very interesting, and if you have reason ... I'm afraid will be really difficult to find the person or persons responsible for these crimes. a person who has no connection with the victim, no connection with the site of the kidnapping and cold-blooded enough to arrange a misdirection...
practically a needle in a haystack!

however, I think ...
darden, tennessee, is not new york city. it is a very small town. in fact it isn't even a city, it is a bunch of houses scattered here and there. a microscopic point on the map. and I (always enter into the mind of this maniac) don't ever would ride for six miles, in broad daylight, in a town where everyone knows everyone else (so no one knows me) for going to throw a lunch box on the opposite side of the woods. I'd run and hide at the speed of light.
but that's just my point of view...

the case of kelli is different. send a sms is much easier, faster, and fayetteville is a big city. but...
how many mobile phones could be functioning in the area where the kelli's iphone was detected for the last time? it has been detected in a time when many people are already asleep. if the police was able to isolate the cell phones that was in use from the unused ones, they would restrict the search. a mobile phone hangs up the receiver signal (everyone knows that). if I'm driving, so I'm not calling, my phone will continue to engage the various signals of the receivers, as I drive. fayetteville is a big city, I know, but how many people could be around, at one in the morning, at that place, on a friday night?..

----

I have a request to make:
a user of websleuths has created a 'holly bobo map'. a map that lists all the places of interest in the case of the disappearance of holly bobo (home, work, places where police and volunteers have carried out the research, etc...)

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=...217,-88.175486&spn=0.007617,0.013057&t=h&z=17

I don't live in north carolina (otherwise I would have participated in the research) and I was wondering if any of you could create a 'kelli bordeaux map'
it would help many people to get an idea of the situation...

sorry if I have dwelt...

That's why I think some of the cases are not being solved - because they are committed by a serial killer. That said, that's not first on my list regarding Kelli's disappearance. I'm just pointing out that there isn't a solid way to tell by the circumstances alone who the perp is. Regarding Mickey, I was almost positive it had to be someone she knew who knew they would find her alone during the time it took her to ride her bike home. How easy would it have been for another person to head her off and offer her a ride home? Someone she knew. Because she was a skilled rider, I thought she'd not be too vulnerable to someone hitting her from behind while she rode. So, just goes to show me, how wrong I can be. Mickey was abducted and murdered by a random stranger. Although her window for abduction was larger, total 30 mins maybe, and she had to travel approx. four miles, I still thought the odds were slim she'd be abducted by a stranger while riding her bike. It's still hard to imagine no one saw when he hit her, loaded her into his vehicle, and drove her away somewhere where he would complete his crime against her. It made more sense that she quietly took up a 'friends' offer for a ride or met up with another friend first before going home, etc. But, I was wrong.

So with Kelli it makes sense that it's the RSO, NH, who is responsible. But, how can we be sure?
There seems to be a window of opportunity for someone else to have slipped into the timeline and harmed her.

As far as cell phone evidence goes, if a serial killer is involved, they wouldn't have a working cell phone with them. As far as other perps,
it would depend on their knowledge about cell phones and how they can be used by LE to detect evidence that could link them to the crime, etc.

Now, in Kelli's case, if LE has isolated a particular cell phone number that coincides with Kelli's cell phone number and the phone belongs to one of the LE's suspects, that would be a strong reason to keep that person on their list of suspects. The only thing, in Kelli's case, is that the locations are so nearby one another. And anyone who knows about cell phone pings could have disengaged her phone purposely before she was harmed as they wouldn't want her phone to indicate the trail she was going to be unwillingly taken down. Make sense?

If LE has dwindled down a person whose phone indicates he was there at her apartment at important times in question, that's evidence.
The only thing is, we know NH admits to taking her home, so his phone should ping there around the time he says he dropped her off.
That said, were there other phones pinging too? Plus, it seems LE thinks the last pings happened nearer to Froggy's bar. :waitasec: Could it be Kelli never got further than the bar after she walked out the door at FB? Was that before 1:00 a.m.? Has LE pinned a time down earlier than the time NH claims that he and Kelli left together? What is LE getting at with the midnight alert and saying the investigation keeps leading us back to this area. Do those comments directly point to NH or could others also be involved?

Also, what is the mystery surrounding midnight and the times mentioned by LE? LE ends the timeframe at 1:24 a.m. by saying Kelli's phone was last 'activated' at that time. How does LE know that NH is responsible for that action if not done by Kelli herself? It still leaves potential for someone who was waiting in the wings. That's what we need to know - why they KNOW it is NH and not someone else who may have intervened between Kelli and her apartment.