GUILTY NC - PFC Kelli Bordeaux, 23, Fayetteville, 14 April 2012 - #8

[Eileen730]

:floorlaugh: You funny. Lets. On a serious note, I have several possibilities on my radar.

I just think NH is so obvious that it cant possibly be him.

 

[VOH910]

I know we asked VOH about cameras, but I don't think we asked if it has an alarm system. (apologies if it's been asked). I am just wondering if it could be possible that NH left a window open (or the like) for himself to slink back in at night? And if he were to do this, what would he be able to access? A Computer? A phone? A place to wash up? Keys?

They do have a security system. It would sound if the doors and windows were not shut upon closing the building and the alarm being set.

VOH, from what you observed on 041612, can you state whether or not there were any new customers to the bar that day? Were they all known to you that were there? TIA

Monday? I was not at the bar on that day.

VOH...Did Kelli regularly or on occasion smoke cigarettes?
How about Nick (IIRC, he is a smoker, please confirm). IN NY you can't smoke inside bars, you have to step outside. How about in NC, smoking inside?

I did not know Kelli to smoke. Nick was a smoker. You cannot smoke inside in NC.

Occum's Razor, folks.
To that end: VOH, what is your impression with local LE knowledge about Nick Holbert's involvement in this matter? I'm not talking official, but rather the "investigative atmosphere."

I'm a bit confused by this question.

Quoting self to ask...where is the link to that? Realize, I don't have one so must ask...
How are we so sure that the cell last pings only pinged at Froggy's? Anyone have a link to that? I remember the presser, Locklear states something to the effect 'everything keeps bringing us back here'...he is not standing at FB when he states that, so is he talking about the general area? And, couldn't the general area include her apartment and FB? Where is the 'here' he speaks of?

Could here not be a real place, but perhaps a spot in the investigation? And everything leads us right back here.... to square one... to the point where we don't know where to go.... where nothing is solid?

 

[Todd Picuyane]

AS I said earlier, I believe that LE has all the technical information they need for Kelli's missing phone. Remember, it's a model that includes a GPS tracker, though not sure if it was turned on or off, and I'm not sure of the GPS tracking data retention for the particular service.

Nonetheless, keep in mind that Kelli's phone information is not the only technology being investigated. All technology relating to the target or other communication with Kelli's phone should have been processed as well, and you know LE will NOT release any of that information unless they really feel it will help with their investigation. This means that every phone call and text that is recorded by the service provider will have been investigated, including the device that Kelli's phone communicated with. Notice I said "device" and not "person," it is up to the investigation to corroborate a device's communication with the context in which it was sent/received.

The vibes I am getting is that Nick is not just POI but Suspect #1, and there is no Suspect #2 (though there may be other POI's). And those vibes, other than the obvious RSO status, and the profile of people with such as status, to elevate their crimes to rape/murder, is far more likely to occur than naught.

NOTE: I didn't say most RSO's elevate their original crimes, but of crimes that ARE committed of horrific violence, it MORE THAN LIKELY comes from someone that has already been convicted of a relatively low-level registrable sex offense. That is key.

 

[Todd Picuyane]

Original question:VOH, what is your impression with local LE knowledge about Nick Holbert's involvement in this matter? I'm not talking official, but rather the "investigative atmosphere."

I'm a bit confused by this question.

Sorry for the confusion. I meant, what's the feel of local LE about who they think the perp actually is, or more specifically, do you get any feeling that LE is reasonably sure of both a crime and a suspect?

 

[VOH910]

Original question:VOH, what is your impression with local LE knowledge about Nick Holbert's involvement in this matter? I'm not talking official, but rather the "investigative atmosphere."



Sorry for the confusion. I meant, what's the feel of local LE about who they think the perp actually is, or more specifically, do you get any feeling that LE is reasonably sure of both a crime and a suspect?

I cannot speak for that they feel or what they know. My personal belief is they are sure of a crime, but not 100% on the suspect. Though I also do believe they are working hard and following up on EVERY tip they get.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Good afternoon. Five pages already and a new thread!

Links are good when you're challenged -
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-bragg-soldier-in-custody-on-unrelated-charge

"Bergamine said there were MORE than 20 people at the bar that night and the police knew some of the names, but not all."

Look at this cool link ~ it helps to track down quotes.
http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_n17_2/bordeaux-police-holbert.html#hdng8

 

[suchanovice]

I cannot speak for that they feel or what they know. My personal belief is they are sure of a crime, but not 100% on the suspect. Though I also do believe they are working hard and following up on EVERY tip they get.

VOH...who do you think LE might consider as other suspects, if there is less than 100% certaintly of one person, assuming that one person is NH?

 

[spoiledmom]

If anyone can find the first and or second press conference regarding Kelli's disappearance, please post the link. I specifically remember the police chief stating the time that the first text was sent from her phone and it was not at 1:20. Since then, the video's have been pulled and I haven't been able to find them. I believe it is probably because LE is no longer making that information available. I do know that he did state the time of that text in one of those conferences. It was before Nick was even mentioned and that is why it didn't particularly stand out at the time, but it stands out now.

 

[LaLaw2000]

VOH, do you have any idea when Nick got his vehicle? TIA.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Portabella,

Remember all those geometry lessons you hated in school? Figuring out the degrees of the angles in triangles? Thankfully, some geeks love that math and have used it as the basis for telecommunications science. Telecomm technicians/engineers use those same principles to triangulate the approximate point of actual ping locations between towers. Not a perfect science, but it's become far more accurate these days.

In this instance, results may also be supported by GPS information from the iPhone 4s, too. Aside from the standard GPS that Kelli may have had set to active on the phone, many, many phone apps include a service called 'location' on by default. An example: Say Kelli used Facebook or twitter apps on her phone, and had either set to 'update location'. Each time that Kelli sent an update (post), the content would automagically be updated with her GPS location at the time.

Not saying that Kelli did use any app like that the night she went missing, those are just examples of phone apps that usually have 'location' turned on by default.

Police may have:

• The triangulated ping report from teleco
• GPS - basic service from the phone
• Potentially other location updates from app Kelli used on her phone
• iPhone 'find my phone' locater - last set of data

Even with all of those data points, or just one, it doesn't answer where Kelli is, but points LE to where to begin looking for the phone when it was disabled. Kelli may or may not have been near at the time, but whoever was in possession of her phone was last near that ping location, KWIM?


>skip this part if you really don't want a lesson< ;p

(FWIW, all of these application services are all part of big business for software developers these days. They all fall under 'geolocation'. Many companies pay big money, and make big money by gathering data on where people are at any given time. Have you heard of FourSquare or Groupon? People 'check-in' electronically to their local coffee shop, and the local coffee shop uses that knowledge of the customer's proximity to offer coupons, discounts & specials. And they gather a truckload of data about consumer buying habits in the process. All because these cool little gadgets on our phones do it automagically.)

BondJamesBond?

 

[Portabella]

Here is Nick's quote again, tell me if you find something strange here...

I said I figured she didn't want me to know where she lived, or somebody was there and she didn't want to be seen together."

If this is "exactly" how he stated it, it leads me to wonder if he did not slip a bit there. Look at it this way....

I said, "I figure you don't what me to know where you live" or I said,
What you don't want us to be seen together".

He is saying this as HE SAID..... not that he thought, but HE SAID. So perhaps she told him near to the beginning of the ride home. "Hey Nick, thanks for driving me home, just drop me off at my Apartment complex entrance if you don't mine".

I could see where this could lead rapidly to a insult, a crash that he realized he had no shot with her that night. Rejection realizing he just spent the night paying for drinks for someone that had not only no interest in him in "that way" but also obviously did not fully trust him. Then he could have made the statements above.....

Leading Kelli to say, the next set of statements....as I recall it was like she was demanding being let out of the car. I think his demeanor and his own statements spooked her. I think this happened rapidly. And as I have stated before Nick might be lying, but there is truth to every lie....IMHO

 

[Muckrucker]

BondJamesBond?

LMAO. Nope, but big fan of his. The dude is a serious critical thinker. Is he still around?

ETA: I see he is, but hasn't posted recently. I'm very flattered you'd even think it. Thank you.

 

[Todd Picuyane]

If this is "exactly" how he stated it, it leads me to wonder if he did not slip a bit there. Look at it this way....

I said, "I figure you don't what me to know where you live" or I said,
What you don't want us to be seen together".

He is saying this as HE SAID..... not that he thought, but HE SAID. So perhaps she told him near to the beginning of the ride home. "Hey Nick, thanks for driving me home, just drop me off at my Apartment complex entrance if you don't mine".

I could see where this could lead rapidly to a insult, a crash that he realized he had no shot with her that night. Rejection realizing he just spent the night paying for drinks for someone that had not only no interest in him in "that way" but also obviously did not fully trust him. Then he could have made the statements above.....

Leading Kelli to say, the next set of statements....as I recall it was like she was demanding being let out of the car. I think his demeanor and his own statements spooked her. I think this happened rapidly. And as I have stated before Nick might be lying, but there is truth to every lie....IMHO

I'm sure LE has a lot more interrogation on Nick than they are letting on, and if I had to guess, I'm sure he's had more than his share of inconsistencies.

Keep in mind that nobody has perfect recollection nor grammar, and sometimes state things in ways that, if nitpicked, would be pounced on by a dozen of us here at WS. I don't think Nick's guilt will be determined by any one statement he says, implies, or even means, but that his guilt will be determined by a SERIES of such interrogative technique, corroborated with circumstantial evidence we may or may not be aware of.

Nick's bond has not been lowered as well, which leads me to believe they are still working on tightening an already provable case. While VOH is correct in stating that LE is following up on all leads, I don't get the impression that they are doing it in desperation, just in corroborating what they already know and in definitely eliminating other minor sniggles.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

While I have suspicions on both NH and MB, after comparing cases, this article of statistics really puts a twist in my thought process. Last Thursday, I helped in the search party for Kelli. I saw NH's lean-to and personal hygiene products, the bar area, her apartment, etc. What stood out to me was the HUGE road construction going on directly across the street from the bar with acres of orange clay and bulldozers. These other women in this article were "abducted" or went "missing" near a major highway and some confirmed with major on-going road construction. Some of these girls' appearances are almost identical. Especially Holly Bobo and KB. Case info is also very similar. Just something to think about and study.

http://www.zimbio.com/IU/articles/3i54JV9Gmis/Pretty+Blonde+Kelli+Bordeaux+Goes+Missing

These cases tripped me up for a few days too in relation to Kelli's disappearance. The text messages that were sent in Kelli's case, make me think her case is more personal. I'm not familiar with all the other cases, but don't believe there were any attempts to cover up or buy time. In Kelli's case, the text message bought the perp a day or two headstart. But the perp would have had to have known that she would be alone on Saturday anyway to get at least a days headstart. :waitasec: Would NH have known that?

Who was the text message sent to? Do we know for sure? Could the perp have sent that message to himself using Kelli's phone? Was it sent to NH, MB? Why would she sent it to Justin? Who is that guy anyway? If she sent it to her sister, then the perp did buy missing time. I'm mixing apples and oranges here because we don't know for sure if Kelli sent the text but, it seems NOT. So who did the perp choose to send the text to and why that person?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

LMAO. Nope, but big fan of his. The dude is a serious critical thinker. Is he still around?

ETA: I see he is, but hasn't posted recently. I'm very flattered you'd even think it. Thank you.

Don't think so - focused on Caylee's case but he was the ping master!
He is still around? Oh, that's nice to know. I'm kind of surprised actually.

 

[ERRN1313]

The thing that keeps bouncing around in my head and I can't quite figure out is the 2 text messages. The family feels pretty certain that she didn't make either one of them, and we don't know the time they were sent, only they were an hour apart. I think the time must be pretty important.

If the first was sent prior to their departure and it wasn't Kelli who sent it? Makes me think there was some sort of premeditation. Why else would someone else text that. It doesn't make sense to me since NH is the most logical suspect since he took her home and was last seen with her, that he would plan to do something and set up a SODDI scenerio. If it was an escalation of a situation after they left, it wasn't a planned thing, so no reason to text "some man is taking me home" before that.

If both texts came after the alleged time they left, 1:20am and then an hour later, it would make more sense that it wasn't Kelli and someone was covering their tracks. Am I making sense?? Therefore, the time is important!!

 

[spoiledmom]

Here is an informative post for those of you who are confused about whether Nick is only attracted to children. I have stated these facts several times and am highly informed about these facts because I have taken several classes regarding sex offenders. So maybe this will shed some more light.
http://www.sheriff.org/sexualpredators/facts.cfm


Coming from this link above.


Facts about sex offenders and predators

Offender characteristics

While most sex offenders are male, sometimes sex offenses are committed by female offenders.
Some offenders do seek sexual gratification from the act, but that is often not a primary motivation for a rape offender. Power, control, and anger are more likely to be the primary motivators.
Studies suggest that most rape offenders are married or in consenting relationships.
Wanting to change is usually not enough to be able to change the patterns that lead to sexual offenses. To create the motivation to change, some offenders need a variety of treatment and corrective interventions, and for others learning how to make the change in their own behavioral cycle of abuse is more effective.
While drugs and alcohol are often involved in sexual assaults, drugs and alcohol do not cause sexual offenses to occur. Rather, drug and alcohol use may be a disinhibitor for the offender, while being under the influence may increase a potential victim's vulnerability.

While there is a small subset of child sexual abusers who are exclusively attracted to children, the majority of the individuals who sexually abuse children are (or have previously been) attracted to adults.

To read more, check the link above.

 

[rpgman]

The thing that keeps bouncing around in my head and I can't quite figure out is the 2 text messages. The family feels pretty certain that she didn't make either one of them, and we don't know the time they were sent, only they were an hour apart. I think the time must be pretty important.

If the first was sent prior to their departure and it wasn't Kelli who sent it? Makes me think there was some sort of premeditation. Why else would someone else text that. It doesn't make sense to me since NH is the most logical suspect since he took her home and was last seen with her, that he would plan to do something and set up a SODDI scenerio. If it was an escalation of a situation after they left, it wasn't a planned thing, so no reason to text "some man is taking me home" before that.

If both texts came after the alleged time they left, 1:20am and then an hour later, it would make more sense that it wasn't Kelli and someone was covering their tracks. Am I making sense?? Therefore, the time is important!!

I agree...the time of the texts are a key point.

I'm thinking it was after 1:20 and an hour later.
If we knew what time Nick arrived back at FB, that would help, but VOH can't answer that, and I respect that.

 

[spoiledmom]

The thing that keeps bouncing around in my head and I can't quite figure out is the 2 text messages. The family feels pretty certain that she didn't make either one of them, and we don't know the time they were sent, only they were an hour apart. I think the time must be pretty important.

If the first was sent prior to their departure and it wasn't Kelli who sent it? Makes me think there was some sort of premeditation. Why else would someone else text that. It doesn't make sense to me since NH is the most logical suspect since he took her home and was last seen with her, that he would plan to do something and set up a SODDI scenerio. If it was an escalation of a situation after they left, it wasn't a planned thing, so no reason to text "some man is taking me home" before that.

If both texts came after the alleged time they left, 1:20am and then an hour later, it would make more sense that it wasn't Kelli and someone was covering their tracks. Am I making sense?? Therefore, the time is important!!

It has not been confirmed that they left the bar at 1:20 AM. The only person that has confirmed this is the man that is sitting behind bars for failing to register as a SO at his new address.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If this is "exactly" how he stated it, it leads me to wonder if he did not slip a bit there. Look at it this way....

I said, "I figure you don't what me to know where you live" or I said,
What you don't want us to be seen together".

He is saying this as HE SAID..... not that he thought, but HE SAID. So perhaps she told him near to the beginning of the ride home. "Hey Nick, thanks for driving me home, just drop me off at my Apartment complex entrance if you don't mine".

I could see where this could lead rapidly to a insult, a crash that he realized he had no shot with her that night. Rejection realizing he just spent the night paying for drinks for someone that had not only no interest in him in "that way" but also obviously did not fully trust him. Then he could have made the statements above.....

Leading Kelli to say, the next set of statements....as I recall it was like she was demanding being let out of the car. I think his demeanor and his own statements spooked her. I think this happened rapidly. And as I have stated before Nick might be lying, but there is truth to every lie....IMHO

Here it is - http://myfox8.com/2012/04/19/dive-crews-resume-search-for-missing-female-soldier/

NH does say, 'I said' as quoted above, but I'm not sure we can place too much meaning behind that - unless it's Freudian - because he doesn't speak good english.

Somewhere else I read where he used, 'I figured she didn't want me'. Duh!, I read it in P's post that I quoted.