NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #24

[LCoastMom]

Trying to catch up on the new thread. I haven't read all the posts but wanted to toss some questions out...

Has anyone been able to confirm whether or not this baby ever saw a MD in the states for her cancer? Last time we discussed, there wasn't any confirmation. We assumed she's had no medical care to speak of.

The footage of her receiving free hearing aids was taken when? I thought it was this year, May perhaps? If this is correct, she appeared relatively healthy then.

Most 10 year old children have already lost their front teeth. Her teeth in the video footage appear to be her permanent teeth - not baby teeth.

Without steroids and/or chemo, a recurrence of cancer wouldn't cause edema of the face. Nor would she be losing hair. Weight loss is possible, as are fevers and general malaise, but her primary teeth wouldn't just fall out at random, nor would she suddenly become swollen (generally speaking, of course).

Yes IIRC the hearing aids were from May...

I'm going back and forth on this - I read earlier on one of the "EB is so crazy" rants that she would put her daughter in a w/c and claim she had CA - was this Zahra or one of her bio daughters? Has this been discussed here? The relative said the daughter didn't cooperate and never appeared sick...

Also read on one of EBs posts about her own ills that no one understood blah, blah, blah...

So if she does have MBP tendency's, not getting treatment does not fit her "profile" vs just plain old "look at meeee".

Going thru the CA and relapse, AB would have been given very specific instructions about what to watch for.

Zahra is such a little girl and had been thru so much with the two prior CAs - my previously healthy cousin was Dx with inoperable CA this spring - in June he went to Houston for a trial of treatment and surgery, he was pronounced CA free and was allowed to go home for 4 weeks between appointments - I saw him in Sept and would not have known he had been ill (if I didn't know) a week later he was back in Houston where he was found to again have reoccurrence and has been given 1 to 3 mos...

Is it possible Zahra had a relapse and was not seen by a doctor - then becoming ill and passing after a beating, EB assumed she had caused the death so went into cover up mode?

AB has been described many ways - if EB told him the "stain" on the mattress was from Zahra 'starting puberty' as he called it, could his little laugh been his own embarrassment?

These "parents" and I am not using that word literally - just need to get over themselves and come clean.

WHERE IS ZAHRA?

 

[Blue Ridge]

good catch I wonder if she was living in the basement ?

Huge discussion of this on way back threads ("up" vs "out").... some people think he said up, others out......I hear OUT every time I listen to it. With his Aussie accent it comes out kinda like oht or oot and maybe that sounds like up to some.

"We only see her when she comes out (then slight hesitation..to rethink wording IMO) when she wants something." Comes out to eat maybe?

 

[NancyA]

BBM,
My understanding is that local LE can 'check' immigration status but I think it could only be acted upon on a federal level, e.g. ICE. Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong but that's my take. Allowing LE to check immigration status is a relatively new process though according to this link:

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine....kDetainees’ImmigrationStatusCausesConcer.aspx

Just wanted to add though if he did apply for a green card the charges against him could easily have warranted a denial and probably would have done. As Nancy pointed out the paperwork and cost involved is enormous. Now, I moved from the States to the UK so there is some difference but just to give everyone an idea what should be involved when removing children from their native country:

- I had to undergo a 6 month long GAL investigation and half a dozen court proceedings requesting permission to remove my children from the country despite me having sole legal and physical custody.

- Passports for three - roughly $450 - had to submit affidavit and court docs to receive kids passports (and apply in person) due to fathers refusal to sign.

- Roughly $1000 to secure 6 month visas, $2000 airfare, $2500 for spousal (2 year limited residency) visas, and about $4000 to have our belongings shipped from the States.

- Had to travel to the UK prior to relocation to 'study' schools, crime rates, etc, document, and submit to the court. Had to go through a background check and submit six months of bank statements and my husband who sponsored us had to do the same and prove he owned our home. I can't stress enough (especially with Nancy helping out!) what a grueling, invasive process it all is.

Sorry if O/T but IMO because I was removing two minor children from the States I was duty bound to do whatever the US courts and UKBA requested of me...and it infuriates me that all the safeguards that should protect children from this type of scenario seemingly fell through. Simply put, Zahra should not have been allowed to leave Oz...and I believe had she not none of us would be discussing her now.

Bolded by me. Yes, any arrests or convictions during the processing period would definitely have resulted in the GC petition being denied and instant deportation. Even after the GC is issued, for the first 2 years it is conditional and you have to go through the WHOLE paperchase/interview/background checking (and then some) rigmarole again to get the conditions lifted so any convictions or arrests in that that period would result in denial and deportation too.

As far as LE knowing about immigration status when arresting someone, well (hastening to add I've never been arrested) technically, you are supposed to carry the GC with you at all times (I only do so when travelling and just carry a photocopy day to day because I'm terrified of losing it) and present it to any LEO who asks. Thing is if he wasn't legal he couldn't get a driver's license so the only ID he would have would be his passport and I'd think LE'd flag from that he'd outstayed his visitor's stamp. I guess then they are supposed to inform ICE. As far as I understand it ICE cannot instigate deportation proceedings while LE has jurisdiction over the suspect until such time as charges are answered and any sentence is served.

ETA - um, not bolded by me, it just split the quote in two, guess I need to study up on the functions of this board a bit more. Sorry guys.

 

[KikiWanBaniki]

I have to comment on the hair / nails thing. There are many ways to get this done inexpensive or even for free. I know when I was a young poor mother, I went to the cosmetology school. They let the girls learning do hair & nails. I'd walk out paying $4 for highlights and a full set of acrylics.

It's also possible that someone in the family or friends circle was a cosmetologist or in school to be one and was using family as guniea pigs. It appears that hair styles and colors are changed frequently with the girls in the family.

I had to smile when I read this--my friends and I (most of us 'young poor mothers') used to do each others' hair, nails, etc., and I think (someone local correct me?) it may even be more of a cultural practice in some circles in the southern US than it is out here on the west coast. And yes, if there was a budding cosmetologist among us, it was 'dye-job city'!

I'd say from looking at the frequently changing hairstyles of all these women, it's pretty likely there was someone in beauty school within their circles at some point. JMO FWIW

BTW, I am in NO way defending this sorry excuse for a 'stepmom', I'm just trying to keep myself objective, where possible, which is pretty hard.

 

[peg4x4]

I am sure that I read that EB was shopping for a "loveseat":sick:
That's a very superfluous bit of furniture for someone of limited means
However I also read living room furniture available without ordering, all the conflicting information is driving me crazy...

She wasn't planing on BUYING it,just getting it and useing it until it was repoed..

 

[SherlockHomey]

The main question still remains; why did she ever write that ransom note?

 

[Paige SC]

I'm with you on that. Also, why would LE have stated early on that they consider this a homicide case? And why would EB be assigned a high-profile lawyer who specializes in cases of women who murder their children??

This is key. They are calling it homicide. Her body is STILL missing. We know the ransom note was bogus and she wasn't kidnapped. If this was some lame cover up attempt because ZB died of "natural" causes from the progression of cancer and/or parental neglect to render basic care, the parents would have divulged her body's whereabouts by now. And they wouldn't have gone to such great lengths to cover it up, IMHO.

 

[Kamille]

http://www2.wnct.com/news/2010/oct/26/cops-resume-search-missing-10-year-old-nc-girl-ar-484108/

Hickory Deputy Chief Major Clyde Deal said Tuesday that Elisa Baker has been talking to investigators, and earlier this week was taken to a home in Caldwell County where she once lived. Deal would not elaborate, but said police were approached by her lawyer that she wanted to help.

And there it is...shifting the blame to AB. She's not really sure where Zahra is you know because, well AB took care of it all. But he mentioned something about....

If she wanted to "help" she'd tell the truth...but as it was once said by a very wise judge...the truth and Ms Baker are strangers.

I agree Paintr, AB better start talking.

MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

The main question still remains; why did she ever write that ransom note?

To deflect attention AWAY from herself and her loser husband

 

[bellyup]

From getting the news that Zahra was A-okay with the furniture ladies til her death.
I really do not think that cancer killed her.

Cancer can come out of remission VERY quickly and cause death just as quickly. It's very possible that it could occur in a matter of DAYS.

Especially with an already present lung metastases. Pulmonary metastases is a bad prognostic factor that indicates disseminated disease. Zahra was in a fragile medical condition. Even having obtained remission her survival rates were likely in the 3 months to 5 year range. (depending on the types of both cancers).

 

[Linda7NJ]

We're she and her father legal residents of the USA? Wouldn't Zahra have qualified for SSI benefits?

I wondered if that was the reason he ripped her from her grandmother's care and brought her here.

 

[SherlockHomey]

Can someone please post the timeline again? Thanks.

 

[LCoastMom]

For her to get lung cancer after the bone cancer diagnoses and subsequent amputation because of it.... surely it had spread and they didn't get it. Bone AND Lung cancer - not good. And who knows right now where else it might've spread to that we don't know about. To me, it sounded like she might've been going downhill and I suspected from the get-go that this might've been the case in recent months and I believe it's highly possible a health neglect thing was going on. Just like taking her out of school. Perhaps AB was so disconnected/busy/in denial? that E was able to keep this from him.

IDK - I'm just babbling.

AND - I sure wish Zahra had her own forum. So very difficult to keep up. Or at least I wonder if the first post a new thread could be edited with news links?

Here are the LINKS (and time line) for Zahra.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116947"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116947[/ame]

 

[SherlockHomey]

To deflect attention AWAY from herself and her loser husband

Yes, but deflect attention away from what? Facts please.
We don't know that she did anything to Zahra. (Not to say I don't think that she did, just that we don't know.)

 

[Paintr]

And there it is...shifting the blame to AB. She's not really sure where Zahra is you know because, well AB took care of it all. But he mentioned something about....

If she wanted to "help" she'd tell the truth...but as it was once said by a very wise judge...the truth and Ms Baker are strangers.

I agree Paintr, AB better start talking.

MOO

EB is receiving advice from a very clever lawyer. AB better find one of his own ASAP.

 

[bellyup]

IIRC, her subsequent metastatic cancer had been treated and she had reached a level of NED (no evidence of disease, aka remission). The amputation was done quite a while ago as we've concluded based on the fact she had outgrown her prosthetic leg. Her hair had grown out which would have taken a minimum of two years post chemo to reach that length. Childhood bone cancer is serious but often not fatal despite metastasis. She was obviously neglected and mistreated but I don't believe for one second she died from a sudden recurrence of cancer AND parental neglect in just a few short months time.

http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/6/1136.full
Eighty-five patients, with either synchronous or metachronous lung involvement, have 3-year postlung metastases survival (PLMS) of 30%.

 

[imamaze]

For her to get lung cancer after the bone cancer diagnoses and subsequent amputation because of it.... surely it had spread and they didn't get it. Bone AND Lung cancer - not good. And who knows right now where else it might've spread to that we don't know about. To me, it sounded like she might've been going downhill and I suspected from the get-go that this might've been the case in recent months and I believe it's highly possible a health neglect thing was going on. Just like taking her out of school. Perhaps AB was so disconnected/busy/in denial? that E was able to keep this from him.

IDK - I'm just babbling.

AND - I sure wish Zahra had her own forum. So very difficult to keep up. Or at least I wonder if the first post a new thread could be edited with news links?

No forum at this time, we are still hoping Zahra is found soon. We do have a link to the timeline and media page on the first page. I have several media links posted. Here is the link to it...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116947"]Zahra Baker timeline and media links[/ame]

 

[mysticrose]

EB is going to try and pin all of this on AB. She is not "committed" to him one bit or she would not be courting some guy in London over the internet.

I still am on the fence about AB. In my eyes he is guilty of allowing the abuse go on with his daughter but I am not there yet about him being involved with the demise of his own daughter.......

Moo of course...................

 

[rbrnmw2]

And there it is...shifting the blame to AB. She's not really sure where Zahra is you know because, well AB took care of it all. But he mentioned something about....

If she wanted to "help" she'd tell the truth...but as it was once said by a very wise judge...the truth and Ms Baker are strangers.

I agree Paintr, AB better start talking.

MOO

MOO ITA If you want to help tell them where you put Zahra I think she is playing games with them She knows where Zahra is and that is what they need help with the most :furious:

 

[passionflower]

When I think of the sherrif holding back tears and calling Zahra's case a homecide,
I really feel he knew something terrible at the moment and LE has stress none of
us can imagine right now.
Imagine having to deal with AB & EB knowing what LE knows!