Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

[MyTinkieGirl]

Did SA ever suggest taking a lie detector test from an independent source?

 

[stephsb]

RSBM.

I know a lot of hunters. I don't know any hunters who shower BEFORE going hunting. My hinky meter is buzzing.

In his defense, he was first waking up for the day, so maybe a 3-4 min shower was his daily waking up routine. That being said, there are serious problems with all 4 of those mentioned. That CA was being given inside information from LE when he should have been a prime suspect really says it all as far LE's investigation into anyone but Steven.

Edit- wanted to add with BD specifically the two showers were what stuck out to me. Again, maybe this was his routine, but it still was somewhat questionable. If he was rushing to go hunting, why shower before, why not just shower after? Definitely interesting.

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[Safeguard]

Inconsistent testimony = bus driver/propane truck driver vs Bobby Dassey

You see no reason to believe the blood was planted? None at all? Not even the clear tampering with the boxes?

And you are willing to accept that the key is suspicious, but unable to understand that ANY suspicious evidence provided by the police must necessarily call into question the rest of it?

And I am tired of this superior attitude from some people that they are too clever to have been swayed by the documentary...the rest of us just foolish, manipulated sheep.

I also see the evidence that was left out and it is almost entirely conjecture....and unconvincing conjecture at that.

Thank YOU!
Some of the evidence LEFT IN was also blown out of all proportion! ( And IMO) Sandra Morris needs personal accountability classes. Going around to "Many Taverns" engaging in petty, immature, drunken gossip, relentlessly antagonizing the village Hot Head, might just have a little something to do with why she found herself a "victim". Not saying it was ok for SA to point an empty gun at her, THATS totally on HIM.

BUT
"If You Go Into A Vipers Den, Your Gonna Find Vipers"...

 

[SCHMAE]

That rules out anyone living on the Avery compound.

I'M NOT EVEN SORRY

Ha. Good one !

 

[Tawny]

If Avery really did pour gasoline on the family cat, and throw the poor thing into a fire, then I can't feel too sympathetic towards him. Maybe his evil ways got him where he is today.

Definitely grounds to send him to jail forever and ever amen. He did his time for the cat, you can't seriously be suggesting... oh nevermind.

I think if the bed really was where they believe it all happen, it would of been removed. Or was it? If not then this shows they didn't believe Brendans story but wanted him to source SA, all they wanted was SA.. I think if they would of played by the rules, the case would of eventually been solved.

edit to add, I can't remember if the bed was removed....

I've tried to find information on the mattress. IF that's the same mattress why wasn't it tested? If they believe he threw it out, burned it, whatever, you know darn well that would have been a HUGE point for them. "SEE HE BURNED THE MATTRESS BECAUSE IT CONTAINED BLOOD EVIDENCE". No one EVER mentioned the mattress, not once. The deputies sat their butts on it while searching! This tells me more than literally anything that they know without a doubt that murder did not happen in that room.

I don't see those inconsistencies having a big impact on the case at all.

Yes, the box was opened/poorly taped. That is the extent of that.

I've called into question the rest of it, and haven't seen any reason to believe the rest of it was planted. I'm sure the jury did the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Do you know what "chain of custody" means?

RSBM.

I know a lot of hunters. I don't know any hunters who shower BEFORE going hunting. My hinky meter is buzzing.

Family full of 'em, none of them do. At most, they'll rub some scent away on themselves but that stuff is garbage, so they all just go unshowered. JMO

 

[CoolJ]

What? No murder.....so Teresa set herself on fire? Please explain.

Are you under the impression she was killed by fire?

 

[stephsb]

Definitely grounds to send him to jail forever and ever amen. He did his time for the cat, you can't seriously be suggesting... oh nevermind.



I've tried to find information on the mattress. IF that's the same mattress why wasn't it tested? If they believe he threw it out, burned it, whatever, you know darn well that would have been a HUGE point for them. "SEE HE BURNED THE MATTRESS BECAUSE IT CONTAINED BLOOD EVIDENCE". No one EVER mentioned the mattress, not once. The deputies sat their butts on it while searching! This tells me more than literally anything that they know without a doubt that murder did not happen in that room.



Do you know what "chain of custody" means?



Family full of 'em, none of them do. At most, they'll rub some scent away on themselves but that stuff is garbage, so they all just go unshowered. JMO

It was definitely the same mattress.
They try to get Brendan to say they cleaned it or threw the sheets out (laughable to think that would be enough if her throat was slit, just sayin) I'm imagining in the 3/1 or 5/13 interviews. I'll try and find it, but the take away I think is that no way did a crime occur on that mattress.


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[Tawny]

I'd be willing to bet the bed didn't even have bedposts. This whole case is a fabrication. I question if a murder even took place.

For consideration: Suicide?

Jumping down that rabbit hole (I've used the rabbit hole metaphor twice in 5 minutes lol): Could Colborn have found her body and they conspired to frame SA?

 

[SCHMAE]

I'll tell you why they're not very good explanations imo:

1. I've never seen a butt dial that lasted only 13 seconds.

2. Whether a butt dial or a misdial, one would assume it would be with *67 like the first 2 calls, but it wasn't.

Unless I see SA's phone records showing those 2 *67 calls, I am skeptical they came from him. If it is proven they came from him, then I missed that memo.

 

[CD82]

Are you under the impression she was killed by fire?

No, but why are YOU under the impression someone didn't murder her before her body became ashes? Did she die of natural causes and someone threw her in a burn pile?

 

[SCHMAE]

Does anyone here believe a murder took place on SA's bed ? If so, what are you basing that on ?
Or have we pretty much ruled that out ?

Does anyone here believe a murder took place in SA's garage ? If so, what are you basing that on ?

 

[LemonMousse]

I don't see those inconsistencies having a big impact on the case at all.



Yes, the box was opened/poorly taped. That is the extent of that.



I've called into question the rest of it, and haven't seen any reason to believe the rest of it was planted. I'm sure the jury did the same.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

There were two places that blood could have come from....SA's body or the blood vial. The box containing the blood vial had been tampered with. Put this together with the hiding-in-plain-site key and the magically appearing bullet - and you see "no reason" to at least suspect the blood was planted? No reason? I can see three in the above paragraph.

The majority of the jury began their deliberations wanting to acquit. They eventually found him not guilty of burning the body! Think about that! So, sorry....I don't think most of the jury would have agreed with you one iota.

 

[MaxManning]

Strang might represent Avery again :
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...rang-we-may-represent-steven-avery-again.html


I've taken a week or so break from researching this case, and my first article back has Strang admitting he himself is unsure of Avery's innocence :

Strang readily admits he thinks it’s possible that Avery is guilty. But, he argues, “If our system worked on convicting people on maybes, then everybody could pat themselves on the back and go out and have a beer, convicting a man on a maybe. Our system isn’t supposed to work on convicting people on maybes.
“In our system, if we live the values we profess, that means you get to keep your liberty,” he continued. “That means you don’t spend the rest of your life in a cage. Could he be guilty? Sure, he could. Do I think he was proven guilty? No. Do I think there’s a real strong chance he could be innocent? Yes. But that’s just me. I wasn’t asked to decide.”

--------------------------------------

Which I think is a common sentiment for the people who have chosen to take an objective look at the case instead of hopping on the "Making a Murderer" bandwagon and discounting any detail that doesn't point to Avery's innocence. Myself, I believe it's possible the police could have planted all of the evidence and Avery might still guilty. I would have voted not guilty because I have MORE than reasonable doubt as to if he is guilty.

I also have reasonable doubt that he is innocent. Glad to hear that Strang agrees.

I think most, if not all, will agree that the trial was anything but fair and with even the limited amount of investigation and tunnel focus on avery, we can't be sure that any number of junkyard characters could be responsible.

Unless Avery and Dassey are freed , there will likely never be a real investigation of this murder. Having the investigations and their trials being acknowledged as unfair and a complete sham, is first step to any kind of action that might confirm who the killer was. On a higher level, I still don't understand who's authority it would come under to investigate the abuse of the system , which was used to convict avery and dassey. Also, who is capable of investigating law enforcement and scrutinizing their behavior in handling the investigation ?


I saw Strang and Kratz on that Kelly Files segment, and it came across as far too brief to be of worth. Kratz felt the strongest evidence was the DNA on the hood latch. Which points to him being oblivious to the concept that most people believe all or some of the evidence was planted, whether it be by law enforcement and/or Avery's brothers.

There could be an hour segment, just on that blood topic alone. I was hoping they'd have cleared up things like the vial of blood having a hole in the top of of it, which the documentary used to manipulate the audience and never explained that the hole is HOW THE BLOOD GOT IN THE VIAL! So we still have countless people still walking around believing this was some kind of smoking gun. I admit, while watching the documentary, I was one of those people!

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3xpof9/hole_in_the_top_of_the_blood_tube_normal/


Sadly, the media is now more interested in gaining ratings/viewers via the popularity of the documentary than actually breaking it down and sorting fact from fiction. Some even report statements in the Avery appeal transcripts as if they are something he is just now saying, but the appeal is like 6 years old. journalism is dead

Amazing that we still haven't seen avery trial transcripts. One would think that Avery and his legal team would want those made available as soon as possible while the public interest is white hot. Or... maybe there is reason to NOT give the full picture ? Whatever the reason is, I am suspicious as to why we haven't seen them yet.

I apologize for my suspicion if the Avery trial transcripts have been made public in the past few weeks, and I have just yet to discover them. If so, definitely link them as I'd love to see them.

 

[stephsb]

Brendan discussing cleaning of the bedroom 3/1 interview:

pg 607
W: When do you clean the place up
B: Like 9:50
W: Tell me, what do you do
B: He took the, the bedsheets, took em outside and he burnt em
W: Took the bedsheets outside and he burnt em. OK
F: Was there blood on the bedsheets?
B: Yeah
F: Was it a lot of blood?
B: Bout a stain like that big
F: OK

pg 640-641
W: You said that you had cut her throat. Here's the thing Brendan, when you cut somebody's throat, they bleed a lot. Ok? Am I right?
B: Yeah
W: She bled a lot, so I know you had blood on ya, it's pretty much impossible not to. Did you have blood on you?
B: No
W: None at all?
B: No

pg 643
F: Brendan, when she's on the bed, was there a lot of blood?
B: Yeah
F: Do you recall when the sheets were taken off the bed and stuff that the blood had soaked through to the mattress pad at all? Or mattress?
B: I don't know
F: You don't know, did you see or not?
B: No

pg 644
W: Did you turn the mattress over or anything like that?
B: No

Edit: Just wanted to add in that I almost laughed out loud when Brendan said he started cleaning at 9:50 to be home by 10. Just shows how he didn't see the crime scene he described- I've obviously never had to clean a crime scene like Brendan described (hopefully no one on here has had to lol) but if I had to guess how long it would take to clean up a room where someone's throat was slit, I'd say hours, and I'd be skeptical of if you could do it completely at all. All their cleaning was done in 10 minutes. It would be laughable if he wasn't sitting in prison for it.

 

[TheDuchess]

In his defense, he was first waking up for the day, so maybe a 3-4 min shower was his daily waking up routine. That being said, there are serious problems with all 4 of those mentioned. That CA was being given inside information from LE when he should have been a prime suspect really says it all as far LE's investigation into anyone but Steven.

Edit- wanted to add with BD specifically the two showers were what stuck out to me. Again, maybe this was his routine, but it still was somewhat questionable. If he was rushing to go hunting, why shower before, why not just shower after? Definitely interesting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought he went to visit is mother or aunt in the hospital prior to the first shower? Came home, took a shower to go hunting, then back home and another shower? I would imagine that 2 showers a day for any of the Averys would be a rare occasion.

 

[CD82]

Brendan discussing cleaning of the bedroom 3/1 interview:

pg 607
W: When do you clean the place up
B: Like 9:50
W: Tell me, what do you do
B: He took the, the bedsheets, took em outside and he burnt em
W: Took the bedsheets outside and he burnt em. OK
F: Was there blood on the bedsheets?
B: Yeah
F: Was it a lot of blood?
B: Bout a stain like that big
F: OK

pg 640-641
W: You said that you had cut her throat. Here's the thing Brendan, when you cut somebody's throat, they bleed a lot. Ok? Am I right?
B: Yeah
W: She bled a lot, so I know you had blood on ya, it's pretty much impossible not to. Did you have blood on you?
B: No
W: None at all?
B: No

pg 643
F: Brendan, when she's on the bed, was there a lot of blood?
B: Yeah
F: Do you recall when the sheets were taken off the bed and stuff that the blood had soaked through to the mattress pad at all? Or mattress?
B: I don't know
F: You don't know, did you see or not?
B: No

pg 644
W: Did you turn the mattress over or anything like that?
B: No

Edit: Just wanted to add in that I almost laughed out loud when Brendan said he started cleaning at 9:50 to be home by 10. Just shows how he didn't see the crime scene he described- I've obviously never had to clean a crime scene like Brendan described (hopefully no one on here has had to lol) but if I had to guess how long it would take to clean up a room where someone's throat was slit, I'd say hours, and I'd be skeptical of if you could do it completely at all. All their cleaning was done in 10 minutes. It would be laughable if he wasn't sitting in prison for it.

I wonder if there are any WS members who have either been employed as crime scene cleanup or know someone/been around someone who has cleaned up a crime scene (professionally). I'd like to know the steps/details it takes. You're right-- 10 minutes is not a lot of time to clean up all traces of DNA.

 

[Tawny]

Which I think is a common sentiment for the people who have chosen to take an objective look at the case instead of hopping on the "Making a Murderer" bandwagon and discounting any detail that doesn't point to Avery's innocence. Myself, I believe it's possible the police could have planted all of the evidence and Avery might still guilty. I would have voted not guilty because I have MORE than reasonable doubt as to if he is guilty.

This is how I feel as well. He COULD still be guilty, just not of murdering her in his trailer and/or garage. But, he could very well be innocent as well. We will probably never know because the investigation was biased. JMO!

 

[SCHMAE]

Brendan discussing cleaning of the bedroom 3/1 interview:

pg 607
W: When do you clean the place up
B: Like 9:50
W: Tell me, what do you do
B: He took the, the bedsheets, took em outside and he burnt em
W: Took the bedsheets outside and he burnt em. OK
F: Was there blood on the bedsheets?
B: Yeah
F: Was it a lot of blood?
B: Bout a stain like that big
F: OK

pg 640-641
W: You said that you had cut her throat. Here's the thing Brendan, when you cut somebody's throat, they bleed a lot. Ok? Am I right?
B: Yeah
W: She bled a lot, so I know you had blood on ya, it's pretty much impossible not to. Did you have blood on you?
B: No
W: None at all?
B: No

pg 643
F: Brendan, when she's on the bed, was there a lot of blood?
B: Yeah
F: Do you recall when the sheets were taken off the bed and stuff that the blood had soaked through to the mattress pad at all? Or mattress?
B: I don't know
F: You don't know, did you see or not?
B: No

pg 644
W: Did you turn the mattress over or anything like that?
B: No

Edit: Just wanted to add in that I almost laughed out loud when Brendan said he started cleaning at 9:50 to be home by 10. Just shows how he didn't see the crime scene he described- I've obviously never had to clean a crime scene like Brendan described (hopefully no one on here has had to lol) but if I had to guess how long it would take to clean up a room where someone's throat was slit, I'd say hours, and I'd be skeptical of if you could do it completely at all. All their cleaning was done in 10 minutes. It would be laughable if he wasn't sitting in prison for it.

Not to mention in that 10 minutes they removed every single trace . They should open a maid service.

 

[TheDuchess]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne...-scandal-ken-kratz-addiction-creepy-behavior/

I hope this is allowed. I know it is Radar Online, but it is an exclusive interview with Kratz.

". If you watch the Netflix series, I’m arrogant, narcissistic, I’m a d*ck! It’s not an attractive personality that’s out there. Some of that bravado was required [for the job], but some of that was me. But that’s not me now.”

 

[Safeguard]

I wonder if there are any WS members who have either been employed as crime scene cleanup or know someone/been around someone who has cleaned up a crime scene (professionally). I'd like to know the steps/details it takes. You're right-- 10 minutes is not a lot of time to clean up all traces of DNA.

Are there there really people who still believe that bedroom or the garage are where TH was killed?