Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

[Hopeful One]

I see exactly what you're saying and agree to some degree. I am one who never reads a news article without wondering what was left out to make some facts seem more salacious. I am a huge supporter of LE and really not a conspiracy theorist in general. I've watched many documentaries that are one-sided and I can tell that this was one was slanted.

Having said that, the facts presented in this docu alone are, to me, proof that this case was mishandled and these two deserve a new trial. It was NOT FAIR by any stretch of the imagination. Even if they are 1,000% guilty, they deserve a new trial because the first were flawed beyond anything that could be considered justice.

(Dangit, I was quoting someone!! That's what I get for being absent from WS for 8,000 years and then trying to interact again)

 

[bessie]

Okay this is maddening. I've only seen the first one so far but I knew there was some serious hink going on. I spent today reading most of the first thread and right now I'm watching this interview with Brenden from March 2006. This kid changes his story as often as he blinks & picks at his hands. He actually sounds like he's making it up as he goes along.

I just don't know what to believe at this point.

Keep watching. One of the most telling lines -- which evoked from me an audible wince -- is the one where BD tells his mom he guessed, just like he was used to doing with his homework. That line rings of nothing but truth.

 

[Soulmagent]

The 4:35 call would make sense if SA came back out of his house well after they had finished taking care of the auto-trader business and saw the RAV4 still sitting there with TH nowhere to be found.

...but I'm not sure if SA said that was the case. I would think he'd have told that to the cops when interviewed.

He likely wouldn't mention it to anyone at the time (e.g. phone call from jail/fiancee an hour later) if the RAV4 was moved by someone shortly thereafter.

I could see him hitting redial ,forgetting he called Theresa for the 4:35 call and thinking he was calling the last person he talked to prior to her.

 

[Hopeful One]

I consider myself to be a fairly clear-headed person and watching what I did see was enough for me to want to gag at some of these people. It's pretty sad that when I see the prosecution/police speaking I get far more repulsed than the defense side of things. What does that tell you that a person who is 99.9% of the time police-friendly, is more creeped out by the cops and prosecution than the defendants in this case.

And I say this with being extremely well aware of how the music, the production, etc...enhanced the viewing experience. I actually worked very hard to work past all of this, however, I am still convinced 100% that at the very least I can confidently state the following:

1.) A new trial is deserved for these clients
2.) Manitowoc authorities acted deplorably in all 3 cases
3.) Len and Krutz should both be disbarred
4.) What Len and the investigator did was disgusting
5.) Brendan's "confession" was not only 100% coerced, but mouth fed by the investigators and categorically untrue due to the fact that the evidence did not even come close to supporting his "confession."
6.) We should ALL be afraid if what was allowed to have happen in this case could happen to just about anyone else - if someone has it out for you they will get you
7.) Everything and anything provided by Manitowoc should be thrown out as evidence, including the key, the car, the confession, and the bullet, because to me it is painfully unreliable at the very best, or worse obtained illegally, and at worst simply planted.

You are my best friend.

 

[AutumnDawn]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernardine-dohrn/our-justice-system-needs_b_309258.html

The innocence movement has illustrated that routine police interrogation methods have elicited an outrageously high proportion of false confessions -- coerced confessions given by innocent suspects who quickly recant. When police use these fraudulent tactics against children, youth, and adolescent suspects, we now know that the likelihood of a false confession is even greater.
Take for example, the case of Anthony Caravella. In 1984, this 15-year-old Florida boy was in a Miramar police station under arrest for typical adolescent offenses, such as loitering, theft and burglary. But the police had a 'heater' case on their hands. A 58-year-old woman had been murdered, the apparent victim of a brutal beating and sexual assault. After hours of interrogation, police emerged with a rambling confession from the youth which he soon recanted. Yet they threw the book at him, charging him with capital murder and aggressively seeking the death penalty against him. Fortunately, a jury spared his life and a few weeks ago, after 26 years in prison, Caravella was released after DNA testing excluded him as the rapist.
Or, take this archetypal American narrative of African-American youth and a white woman victim played to a national audience in the Central Park jogger case. One lovely April night in 1989 an investment banker went jogging in the park where she was raped and bludgeoned, left lying in a coma in the underbrush. Miraculously, the woman survived, but with no memory of the crime. Five youngsters, ages 14, 15 and 16, were quickly arrested and charged with gang rape and attempted murder. They were interrogated over periods of 14 to 28 hours and four confessed on videotape. The media ran riot: "Wolf Pack's Prey: Packs of bloodthirsty teens from the tenements bursting with boredom and rage, roam the streets, getting kicks from an evening of ultra-violence." "Their enemies were rich. Their enemies were white."
Almost immediately, all five adolescents repudiated their confessions. DNA testing excluded them as the source of semen found on the jogger's clothing, but they were still tried and convicted, and collectively served over forty years in prison. But there would be another confession, thirteen years later, from a 31-year-old serial rapist who assaulted women in or near Central Park. His DNA was a match. Bedlam again ensued. To the credit of the district attorney, his year-long investigation concluded that the verdicts should be set aside. Although police and the individual prosecutors stuck to their story, the court agreed. The case that became a catalyst for a decade of harsh juvenile sentencing statutes, widespread trial of children in adult criminal courts, and the criminalization of youth -- it was a wrongful conviction of youth.

I mean you just can't make this stuff up...these cases are almost identical to Brenden Dassey's case ......

My head hurts...done for the night....maybe

 

[Hopeful One]

Right?

How about when the key was found finally......yikes....and the manipulation of Brendan .....sickening to watch for me.

BBM

Reminded me of the interrogation of Michael Crowe. I literally felt ill after watching both.

 

[dexter75]

Hence my point. He never stood a chance. People lie. That jury was NOT impartial.
Oh, and cops lied under oath, again. Blah, blah, blah.
Such a sad shame that the real victim, may never get true, honest justice.

Crap, I forgot that part. Also significant because they would not believe their ' department' was dirty enough to frame or if they did believe or know they were, they would not want that ' image' to go out so would want to convict . Thanks for this reminder.

 

[ggirl76]

After watching the documentary I starting googling. I found this blog but I don't know if it has been verified. It is interesting.
http://www.convolutedbrian.com/an-alternative.html

 

[LemonMousse]

I could see him hitting redial ,forgetting he called Theresa for the 4:35 call and thinking he was calling the last person he talked to prior to her.

Yes, I wondered that...it's the sort of thing I do all the time.

But, if it was an accidental redial, it would have included the *67 he'd used earlier but it didn't.

Maybe he was just confused about whose number it was.

Teresa's number was written on a pad with no name or identifier next to it. Underneath is written something like "back to patio" with (what looks like) a different pen - so maybe he needed to call someone else and wasn't sure if that was their number.

 

[dexter75]

OK.
So, if there is any truth to this, that is beyond messed up!

After watching the documentary I starting googling. I found this blog but I don't know if it has been verified. It is interesting.
http://www.convolutedbrian.com/an-alternative.html

 

[LemonMousse]

The blood - if our new member is right and old blood (even preserved with EDTA) looks very different....and I can well believe that.....then that just opens up a whole raft of new questions for me.

Presumably, if blood changes in appearance over time then it must be because of chemical changes within it.

Surely to goodness this would be very easy for any chemist to detect...much easier, I'd have thought than resurrecting an unreliable test that hasn't been used in a decade to try and fimd EDTA.

Is this old blood or new blood? 11 year old vs 4 months old? If change is actually visible to the naked eye then it must be instantly detectable under a microscope.

Why did Marc LeBeau not immediately know this and perform that test?

Is it because they knew that taking that line would, in fact show, the blood was old?

Must stress....my chemistry education ended when I was 16 (I couldn't drop it fast enough) so I am clueless. But, it seems logical to me.

 

[dexter75]

Phlebotomist?

Just to be clear: I am not involved in forensics of any kind. I simply work in a lab with LOTS of blood [emoji4]

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[Hopeful One]

This is why I love WS. We don't just read an article here and there and form an opinion. We want any and ALL info we can possibly find. I love you people.

 

[Soulmagent]

Yes, I wondered that...it's the sort of thing I do all the time.

But, if it was an accidental redial, it would have included the *67 he'd used earlier but it didn't.

Maybe he was just confused about whose number it was.

Teresa's number was written on a pad with no name or identifier next to it. Underneath is written something like "back to patio" with (what looks like) a different pen - so maybe he needed to call someone else and wasn't sure if that was their number.

I don't think it redials the *67 part but I am not sure.

 

[dexter75]

Happens often =( I too, am a huge supporter of LE. However I feel abuse/misuse of the badge= the most HORRIBLE abuse of power. ( along with teacher/pastor/ you get it )
Take a look at Detroit alone and our corrupted system, it's everywhere!

As some have stated before this documentary is about the corruption of our judicial department, not just the Steven Avery case. I see some on here do not really believe that the police actually plant evidence, or would participate in this type of behavior to put someone in jail. I was on youtube watching videos of actual police planting evidence. Seeing it done to people over and over again really makes you realize, how many innocent people are in prison, because the cops just did not get caught.

Here is a link into other police corruption, just a look at how often this kind of thing happens. How many times have people told us they were innocent, but when the police made there statements we quickly believed them, simply because they are LE.

[video=youtube;jEZ3eULB47E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEZ3eULB47E[/video]

I don't know how I feel about our judicial department anymore....

 

[Soulmagent]

Here are a couple of links showing court awards for wrongful convictions in other cases.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/district-to-pay-1665-million-to-wrongly-imprisoned-man-attorneys-say/2015/11/19/2f62fd58-8ecf-11e5-baf4-bdf37355da0c_story.html

The D.C. government will pay $16.65 million to settle a federal lawsuit after a jury found that D.C. police framed an innocent man who served 27 years in prison for a rape and murder.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/tulsa-to-pay-million-to-exonerated-man-in-wrongful-conviction/article_18a99182-33c5-5e41-988b-a7983024dfc1.html

Tulsa to pay $8 million to exonerated man in wrongful-conviction lawsuit settlement

http://abc7chicago.com/news/man-exonerated-of-murder-charged-in-albany-park-shooting/946442/

MAN AWARDED $25M IN WRONGFUL CONVICTION CASE CHARGED IN ALBANY PARK SHOOTING

I have not read up on Thad's case. Even so I think Steven Avery's lawsuit was a bigger deal then people who say "He would never have got that much" because the dollars amounts dont look like chump change like the 400,000 was in comparison.

 

[JudyBolton]

Keep watching. One of the most telling lines -- which evoked from me an audible wince -- is the one where BD tells his mom he guessed, just like he was used to doing with his homework. That line rings of nothing but truth.

Oh I so agree! It was those little innocent moments when he came across as completely without guile and you could just *tell* what he was really like and that he didn't have a CLUE what was going on and that things were happening to him that were 100% wrong.

The ones that also stood out to me were when he asked if he would be through by 1:30 and the interrogator asked him why - and he said he had a project due in that afternoon class. Totally clueless that he was being framed for murder and not only wasn't going back to school but was never going home again.

Then when he was talking to his mom about watching "Wrestle Mania". These are the immature young boy ideas that were foremost in his brain at a time when his entire life was hanging by a thread.

There is NO excuse for an authority figure to take advantage of him like this! Where was his safety net? How could the appellate judges not see what we all see? Are they all corrupt?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The blood in the Rav looked like they were applied with a q-tip. moo

My thoughts exactly.

 

[JudyBolton]

My thoughts exactly.

Me too - and there was blood in 10 different places? It looked like one was near the steering wheel - one on the door area - and wasn't one in the back near the rear opening? Was he just bleeding all over the dang car - was he wrestling around with her inside the vehicle? Why would he have blood up and down the car from the steering wheel to the back.

And leave no fingerprints....What area of his body was this blood coming from? Obviously not his hands as he must have worn gloves to prevent fingerprints. What other body part would be touching the car in TEN different locations?

Seems like severe case of someone over doing it to me.

 

[Soulmagent]

Me too - and there was blood in 10 different places? It looked like one was near the steering wheel - one on the door area - and wasn't one in the back near the rear opening? Was he just bleeding all over the dang car - was he wrestling around with her inside the vehicle? Why would he have blood up and down the car from the steering wheel to the back.

And leave no fingerprints....What area of his body was this blood coming from? Obviously not his hands as he must have worn gloves to prevent fingerprints. What other body part would be touching the car in TEN different locations?

Seems like severe case of someone over doing it to me.

LOL , you make an interesting point about the finger prints and gloves and the finger cut. I chuckled because I pictured Kratz trying to tell us the gloves overflowed and SA didnt notice as he was completely scubbing the car of all but the brightest most standout thing of all ,the blood.