Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

[Madeleine74]

Logical answer? That sentence ^ makes no sense to me. It's just another detour down the cul-de-sac of, "He's guilty because I say so". meh.

Just another opportunity to say, He did it, I'm right. Uhhggg.

Let's say Avery had a cut on his shoulder or forearm. Well obviously no one would expect there to be blood on the ignition of the car. But there was blood there and Avery just so happened to have a cut on the 3rd finger of his right hand. Who could have known that? I allege no one could have known it unless they were with Avery when the cut occurred or they saw the cut first-hand, or he told them he cut his finger. But for some reason the very idea that he does have a cut AND blood is at the ignition of TH's car is not believeable or persuasive. Nope, the blood had to be planted because... well because it had to.

If one has convinced themselves that Avery absolutely cannot be guilty, then there is no evidence, aside from his confession or a video of the crime, that will likely be enough to provide proof. Everything else will just be "circumstantial" and will be explained away as everyone out to get Avery, everyone in on framing him.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Let's say Avery had a cut on his shoulder or forearm. Well obviously no one would expect there to be blood on the ignition of the car. But there was blood there and Avery just so happened to have a cut on the 3rd finger of his right hand. Who could have known that? I allege no one could have known it unless they were with Avery when the cut occurred or they saw the cut first-hand, or he told them he cut his finger. But for some reason the very idea that he does have a cut AND blood is at the ignition of TH's car is not believeable or persuasive. Nope, the blood had to be planted because... well because it had to.

If one has convinced themselves that Avery absolutely cannot be guilty, then there is no evidence, aside from his confession or a video of the crime, that will likely be enough to provide proof. Everything else will just be "circumstantial" and will be explained away as everyone out to get Avery, everyone in on framing him.

I know we don't often agree but I do here!

He is guilty because the overwhelming evidence points to him. That the opportunity. That someone would plan a murder or even more crazy, there is a murder on his property where her car is found and she was the last person to see her and then them plant everything to make him look GUILTER.. is odd. He already is prime suspect when she vanishes from his yard..

He is a bully and has been aggressive and abusive to women. He is not the big teddy bear people want to believe he is.

 

[atthelake]

I saw the documentary last night on Dateline. There will be another documentary tonight on ID channel at 9 o'clock Eastern.

I have not seen the Netflix.

 

[missy1974]

Did SA ever try to contact TH or auto trader after 4:35 on Halloween to ask about the other car he wanted photographed?

Seems to me That if he didn't follow up, it's because he knew she was already dead... ?

That is one argument.... but the other side of that is.... She always came out on Monday's. It's very possible that they always called on Monday's and she was able to come that day. It's possible that he was calling her thinking if she was still in the area maybe she could come back and take a photo of the loader, she didn't answer so he didn't bother, it was 4:35 too (close to the end of a typical work day). Without knowing the pattern or history, it's speculation. Did they always call on Mondays? at this point, did they know she typically only works on Monday's for AutoTrader? If he did call and maybe even left a message, we don't know about it, and we don't know if that message was deleted (since indications are that someone accessed and deleted a message or messages).
Maybe she told him that day, if you have any other vehicles, call me directly..... she made more money off of those hustle calls.

He didn't call her the following Monday because of course it was known she was missing at that point.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

That is one argument.... but the other side of that is.... She always came out on Monday's. It's very possible that they always called on Monday's and she was able to come that day. It's possible that he was calling her thinking if she was still in the area maybe she could come back and take a photo of the loader, she didn't answer so he didn't bother, it was 4:35 too (close to the end of a typical work day). Without knowing the pattern or history, it's speculation. Did they always call on Mondays? at this point, did they know she typically only works on Monday's for AutoTrader? If he did call and maybe even left a message, we don't know about it, and we don't know if that message was deleted (since indications are that someone accessed and deleted a message or messages).
Maybe she told him that day, if you have any other vehicles, call me directly..... she made more money off of those hustle calls.

He didn't call her the following Monday because of course it was known she was missing at that point.

Wow that is a stretch..

Did anyone ever find her camera?

 

[missy1974]

Let's say Avery had a cut on his shoulder or forearm. Well obviously no one would expect there to be blood on the ignition of the car. But there was blood there and Avery just so happened to have a cut on the 3rd finger of his right hand. Who could have known that? I allege no one could have known it unless they were with Avery when the cut occurred or they saw the cut first-hand, or he told them he cut his finger. But for some reason the very idea that he does have a cut AND blood is at the ignition of TH's car is not believeable or persuasive. Nope, the blood had to be planted because... well because it had to.

If one has convinced themselves that Avery absolutely cannot be guilty, then there is no evidence, aside from his confession or a video of the crime, that will likely be enough to provide proof. Everything else will just be "circumstantial" and will be explained away as everyone out to get Avery, everyone in on framing him.

BBM so uhmmm like the officers that went out to Avery's on November 3rd and 4th, assuming he had the cut at that time. Or if they saw the news reports with the cut.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Anyone know where I can find a picture of the CD case that had blood smears on it?

ETA: nevermind, I found one

I can't stay away....LOL....was that found in her car? In the picture, I noticed the black thing in her car on the passenger side appears to have blood.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Did SA ever try to contact TH or auto trader after 4:35 on Halloween to ask about the other car he wanted photographed?

Seems to me That if he didn't follow up, it's because he knew she was already dead... ?

No, he did not. But that in itself, doesn't mean he knew she was dead. He was told by Auto Trader, she would be there on Monday Oct 31st or the following Monday. Logic would dictate that once Auto Trader confirmed with TH she was going there, they would have called back and told B Janda or at least left a message saying she would be there that day.

 

[missy1974]

Wow that is a stretch..

Did anyone ever find her camera?

What exactly is a stretch? IMO I find it a stretch that he never called back a stretch to assume it was because he killed her. She only worked for AutoTrader on Monday's. I have no idea, and I doubt anyone else on here does, if they typically made appointments or just called Monday mornings. At least once SA just called her directly (including October 10th).
According to AutoTrader, these are the days they had on record that she went to the Avery Property:
June 20th - MONDAY
August 22nd - MONDAY
August 29th - MONDAY
September 19th - MONDAY
October 10th - MONDAY
October 31st - MONDAY

 

[missy1974]

I can't stay away....LOL....was that found in her car? In the picture, I noticed the black thing in her car on the passenger side appears to have blood.

LOL

It was. Blood was smeared on it.

 

[missy1974]

I saw the documentary last night on Dateline. There will be another documentary tonight on ID channel at 9 o'clock Eastern.

I have not seen the Netflix.

You should watch the Netflix series JMO but when I watched it, part way through I could see that it as slanted towards SA, so I started researching, I didn't get all my doubts based off the documentary. Brendan's portion in the documentary was hard for me to watch, if I was going to watch again, I would just fast forward through it.

ETA: the only thing new that I heard on Dateline was Buting saying there was no evidence tape on the vial sealing the stopper to the glass.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think the documentary proves he did it more than it doesn't and I hate slanted documentaries..

However in this case the simplest answer is SA.

 

[Madeleine74]

TH's camera was found burned in SA's burn barrel, along with TH's purse, PDA, and cell phone.

 

[Miette]

I know we don't often agree but I do here!

He is guilty because the overwhelming evidence points to him. That the opportunity. That someone would plan a murder or even more crazy, there is a murder on his property where her car is found and she was the last person to see her and then them plant everything to make him look GUILTER.. is odd. He already is prime suspect when she vanishes from his yard..

He is a bully and has been aggressive and abusive to women. He is not the big teddy bear people want to believe he is.

Not commenting on the rest of your post, but this kind of police misconduct isn't uncommon. It's a form of noble cause corruption where the perpetrators justify planting evidence when they 'know' the person is guilty to make sure that the charges stick. According to the Manitowoc County Sheriff's department, Steven Avery already got away with a crime once and by strengthening their case with more (planted) evidence makes sure that it doesn't happen a second time.

 

[ElleElle]

I don't know if that statement is entirely true. LE did a missing person search of his trailer on the 3rd with his consent. They didn't get the search warrant until after the car was found to truly start a crime scene search. It wasn't until after the 5th that the family wasn't allowed back on the property. So, the search may have been 8 days, but the family had control of the property from Oct 31 thru Nov 5th.

Right, but didn't they leave for the cabin on the 3rd? So, they had from Nov3-Nov5th or 6th? Plenty of time to be on the property to search.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Not commenting on the rest of your post, but this kind of police misconduct isn't uncommon. It's a form of noble cause corruption where the perpetrators justify planting evidence when they 'know' the person is guilty to make sure that the charges stick. According to the Manitowoc County Sheriff's department, Steven Avery already got away with a crime once and by strengthening their case with more (planted) evidence makes sure that it doesn't happen a second time.

Yes it is.. I am not going to get into the most cops are bad thing because it is not true. There are some bad apples but I am tired of people blaming Cops when they don't like the outcome..

The odds of a murder happening on his property that he has nothing to do with are astronomical. The fact that he knew her called her, His blood is in her car, which is found on his property and that her bones are found burned on his property is too much. Any other case people would know he was guilty.

He is playing the poor me I am innocent card and it makes me sick..

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm open to hearing evidence. If there's evidence to show planting (not merely imagining it could happen), then I support a retrial and SA being released. Or if there was legal error, ditto.

Elaborate or fantasy scenarios in which one or more people are out there somehow taking TH's body and burning it and planting it on the Avery Salvage Yard, and planting blood and keys and TH's items, isn't believable and certainly not without proof. To me that's desperation and a ploy to make SA a martyr at the cost of rationality. I can't just go by 'feelings' in criminal cases. I don't have any particular feelings, gut or otherwise, about the crime or the people involved. There's either evidence or there isn't. If there's enough circumstantial evidence in totality to go beyond mere coincidence ("oh really that could happen to anyone, Avery was just unlucky") that's the line that once crossed takes me to "beyond a reasonable doubt."

 

[Safeguard]

I know we don't often agree but I do here!

He is guilty because the overwhelming evidence points to him. That the opportunity. That someone would plan a murder or even more crazy, there is a murder on his property where her car is found and she was the last person to see her and then them plant everything to make him look GUILTER.. is odd. He already is prime suspect when she vanishes from his yard..

He is a bully and has been aggressive and abusive to women. He is not the big teddy bear people want to believe he is.

Where are all these, "people" who believe SA is a, "big teddy bear"? I doubt there is anyone here who thinks SA is some kind of sweetheart, why must it be assumed that we, who are looking at all angles, are huge fans of SA?

Either we think he's guilty, or we think he's Gandhi ?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Where are all these, "people" who believe SA is a, "big teddy bear"? I doubt there is anyone here who thinks SA is some kind of sweetheart, why must it be assumed that we, who are looking at all angles, are huge fans of SA?

Either we think he's guilty, or we think he's Gandhi ?

Okay so maybe that was broad.. I have been watching too much coverage...

This case seems so clear to me. My first dip into this case was the series and I was left not at all thinking him innocent.

This is one of the cases where there is plenty of evidence direct and circumstantial to convict.

 

[Madeleine74]

Originally Posted by ScarlettScarpetta

I know we don't often agree but I do here!

This is true. We might disagree even more but we don't follow all the same cases! This is a rare event, indeed.