Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

[MysticJynx]

Let's say Avery had a cut on his shoulder or forearm. Well obviously no one would expect there to be blood on the ignition of the car. But there was blood there and Avery just so happened to have a cut on the 3rd finger of his right hand. Who could have known that? I allege no one could have known it unless they were with Avery when the cut occurred or they saw the cut first-hand, or he told them he cut his finger. But for some reason the very idea that he does have a cut AND blood is at the ignition of TH's car is not believeable or persuasive. Nope, the blood had to be planted because... well because it had to.

If one has convinced themselves that Avery absolutely cannot be guilty, then there is no evidence, aside from his confession or a video of the crime, that will likely be enough to provide proof. Everything else will just be "circumstantial" and will be explained away as everyone out to get Avery, everyone in on framing him.

BBM...... Um Sgt AC could have seen his hand when he was at his trailer on Nov 3. You know right before he found the real crime scene. The other officer may have seen it on the 4th when he went there questioned him and even walked through his trailer. They could have noticed the burnt out seat in the back of his garage. They may have noticed burn barrels in front of his house and behind BJ's place. These are things they are seeing between the time she was reported missing and the time the car was planted.
The problem I have with the smear at the ignition is its going up. and looks like a drop that was smeared upward. I do believe it could go upward had he been turning the key back to the off position as his hand would come backwards. However there is also another drop that went side ways. How does that happen just turning the key in the ignition even with gloves on. I think they also goofed planting the blood. should have made one smear and going down might have been more believable to me. JMO

 

[BlueShoe]

Where are all these, "people" who believe SA is a, "big teddy bear"? I doubt there is anyone here who thinks SA is some kind of sweetheart, why must it be assumed that we, who are looking at all angles, are huge fans of SA?

Either we think he's guilty, or we think he's Gandhi ?

Ha ha! I nominate your post for something or other!

 

[missy1974]

Another thing with the blood being planted. SA right from the start said, if there is blood in that vehicle it's because they planted it. LE said, don't be silly, it's not like we have his blood hanging around. It wasn't until shortly before the trial that they discovered that box.... ya know, the one that had the evidence tape cut and it was scotch taped back up, that one. It's not like they found that box and decided to run with "he was framed", no, that box was found much later.


ETA: this evidence box was EVIDENCE in the trial.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

BBM...... Um Sgt AC could have seen his hand when he was at his trailer on Nov 3. You know right before he found the real crime scene. The other officer may have seen it on the 4th when he went there questioned him and even walked through his trailer. They could have noticed the burnt out seat in the back of his garage. They may have noticed burn barrels in front of his house and behind BJ's place. These are things they are seeing between the time she was reported missing and the time the car was planted.
The problem I have with the smear at the ignition is its going up. and looks like a drop that was smeared upward. I do believe it could go upward had he been turning the key back to the off position as his hand would come backwards. However there is also another drop that went side ways. How does that happen just turning the key in the ignition even with gloves on. I think they also goofed planting the blood. should have made one smear and going down might have been more believable to me. JMO

I don't find that weird at all. It is the reason it looks organic to me. If someone was trying to make it look like a plant they needed much less blood and would have left just a tiny smudge. The fact that it is not text book what you think it should look like proves it is organic from him turning the switch on and off, Or removing the key.

The more it looks like it SHOULD means someone made it look that way. But when it doesn't, That seems more realistic.

 

[Safeguard]

BBM...... Um Sgt AC could have seen his hand when he was at his trailer on Nov 3. You know right before he found the real crime scene. The other officer may have seen it on the 4th when he went there questioned him and even walked through his trailer. They could have noticed the burnt out seat in the back of his garage. They may have noticed burn barrels in front of his house and behind BJ's place. These are things they are seeing between the time she was reported missing and the time the car was planted.
The problem I have with the smear at the ignition is its going up. and looks like a drop that was smeared upward. I do believe it could go upward had he been turning the key back to the off position as his hand would come backwards. However there is also another drop that went side ways. How does that happen just turning the key in the ignition even with gloves on. I think they also goofed planting the blood. should have made one smear and going down might have been more believable to me. JMO

Good post! I had a problem with the blood smear in that, who's going to meticulously wipe down the steering column, dashboard, etc and carefully avoid the smear? Not likely you'd accidentally overlook blood on a panel you wiped for prints

 

[ElleElle]

I wonder what new forensic evidence KZ has?

She stated forensic has advanced since 2005-2007.

She even bought the exact same RAV4 as TH. ! I think it may have to do with the fact his fingerprints were nowhere to found. Also, "transfer" DNA on the latch could be something else.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Good post! I had a problem with the blood smear in that, who's going to meticulously wipe down the steering column, dashboard, etc and carefully avoid the smear? Not likely you'd accidentally overlook blood on a panel you wiped for prints

If you are wiping it down you are worried about where your hands touched. The fact that the cut would have been on the top of his gloves and he grabbed the keys as he was leaving the car accounts completely for him leaving the smudge thinking the car was clear.

 

[missy1974]

I wonder what new forensic evidence KZ has?

She stated forensic has advanced since 2005-2007.

She even bought the exact same RAV4 as TH. ! I think it may have to do with the fact his fingerprints were nowhere to found. Also, "transfer" DNA on the latch could be something else.

I bet she has been contacted by some pretty smart forensic people LOL

Her buying the RAV4 is interesting. First thing I would do is try to "plant" the blood and see just how easy it could have been done from opening the passenger doors.

 

[RANCH]

I'm open to hearing evidence. If there's evidence to show planting (not merely imagining it could happen), then I support a retrial and SA being released. Or if there was legal error, ditto.

Elaborate or fantasy scenarios in which one or more people are out there somehow taking TH's body and burning it and planting it on the Avery Salvage Yard, and planting blood and keys and TH's items, isn't believable and certainly not without proof. To me that's desperation and a ploy to make SA a martyr at the cost of rationality. I can't just go by 'feelings' in criminal cases. I don't have any particular feelings, gut or otherwise, about the crime or the people involved. There's either evidence or there isn't. If there's enough circumstantial evidence in totality to go beyond mere coincidence ("oh really that could happen to anyone, Avery was just unlucky") that's the line that once crossed takes me to "beyond a reasonable doubt."

I'm with you on this.

Just because LE had a possible motive to frame SA and it's possible that they planted some evidence doesn't mean that they did. I need to see some evidence they did before I can agree that there should be a new trial. JMO

 

[Sweetgrits]

You should watch the Netflix series JMO but when I watched it, part way through I could see that it as slanted towards SA, so I started researching, I didn't get all my doubts based off the documentary. Brendan's portion in the documentary was hard for me to watch, if I was going to watch again, I would just fast forward through it.

ETA: the only thing new that I heard on Dateli


I heard that too but I don't understand what he's talking about. When I worked the ER we had a lot of occasions to draw blood as evidence mostly for rape cases but also some DUI death investigations. The blood had to be drawn by a MD or RN mostly nurses. When we drew the blood we labeled the vial with patients name, date, time and our name. At that point LE was brought in and in the presence of both parties we completed a form to be included inside the Styrofoam container that showed that the officer received the evidence. Then the evidence tape was put on and both the RN and LE initialed the evidence tape. Having that evidence tape cut was normal procedure - the state lab couldn't test the blood without opening the box and inserting a needle into the rubber lid on the vial to withdraw a sample. There would be no need to put tape across the actual vial, I've never seen that happen or heard of it happening. I worked in several states during my career and the procedure was the same so I would think it would be same or similar in WI. Even when I was watching the Netflix documentary and heard Buting making such a big deal of the tape I couldn't believe a criminal defense attorney wouldn't know the procedures of blood evidence. JMO

 

[Safeguard]

If you are wiping it down you are worried about where your hands touched. The fact that the cut would have been on the top of his gloves and he grabbed the keys as he was leaving the car accounts completely for him leaving the smudge thinking the car was clear.

Talk about a "stretch". Lol

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Talk about a "stretch". Lol

Not a stretch at all. One is the palm of his hand, where he is worried about being revealed, one is the back of his hand that if he was wearing gloves he may not even have noticed. And he reaches in with the gloves grabs the key, One smudge, turns the key and goes to pull the key smudge two.. Two different directions. It is common sense.

 

[Safeguard]

Not a stretch at all. One is the palm of his hand, where he is worried about being revealed, one is the back of his hand that if he was wearing gloves he may not even have noticed. And he reaches in with the gloves grabs the key, One smudge, turns the key and goes to pull the key smudge two.. Two different directions. It is common sense.

Imo it makes more sense to remove the key before wiping down that area.

 

[Miette]

Yes it is.. I am not going to get into the most cops are bad thing because it is not true. There are some bad apples but I am tired of people blaming Cops when they don't like the outcome..

The odds of a murder happening on his property that he has nothing to do with are astronomical. The fact that he knew her called her, His blood is in her car, which is found on his property and that her bones are found burned on his property is too much. Any other case people would know he was guilty.

He is playing the poor me I am innocent card and it makes me sick..

Not sure where I was saying that most cops are bad, but I am glad that you at least agree that there are some bad apples (which as they say, spoils the bunch) and that police misconduct can happen. This is not blaming the cops because I don't like the outcome, but holding people in power accountable and expecting law enforcement to follow the law themselves.

What you say about Steven Avery may be true, and he absolutely should have been considered a suspect. He also had the right to be presumed innocent until convicted. He should have should have been investigated by people who didn't have a clear conflict of interest in the case. He had the right to a fair trial. But more importantly, Teresa Halbach had the right to have all other possible suspects eliminated through police investigation in pursuit of finding her killer.

 

[MysticJynx]

in 1996, the nurse drew the blood, it was put in the styrofoam and into a box. both were sealed with the first of the evidence tape. the Red tape. dated 1-2-96. Then the box went to the lab where it was sliced. and the blood was tested. then the lab tech put the vial back in that styrofoam taped it closed with clear evidence tape dated it 3-13-96. put it back in the box and taped and dated it the same 3-13-96. The vial it self said exp. Mar 96. Then the box was sent back to the Clerk and put back into evidence. In 2002 Lenk went into the evidence box that had the blood from both steven and PB. also had the fingernail clippings and hairs in that box. Per court order they opened the box and took the Fingernail clippings and hair. That evidence of blood should never have been touched again. Not until the defense team went to check on it in Dec 2006. However that is not the case. The Tape was cut on both sealed items. placed back into the box then sealed with scotch tape. This to me says since no one ever signed it out of the evidence since it was placed there in 96'. That second piece of clear evidence tape should never have been cut open.

 

[missy1974]

I heard that too but I don't understand what he's talking about. When I worked the ER we had a lot of occasions to draw blood as evidence mostly for rape cases but also some DUI death investigations. The blood had to be drawn by a MD or RN mostly nurses. When we drew the blood we labeled the vial with patients name, date, time and our name. At that point LE was brought in and in the presence of both parties we completed a form to be included inside the Styrofoam container that showed that the officer received the evidence. Then the evidence tape was put on and both the RN and LE initialed the evidence tape. Having that evidence tape cut was normal procedure - the state lab couldn't test the blood without opening the box and inserting a needle into the rubber lid on the vial to withdraw a sample. There would be no need to put tape across the actual vial, I've never seen that happen or heard of it happening. I worked in several states during my career and the procedure was the same so I would think it would be same or similar in WI. Even when I was watching the Netflix documentary and heard Buting making such a big deal of the tape I couldn't believe a criminal defense attorney wouldn't know the procedures of blood evidence. JMO

But once it gets to the lab, when they are done with it, they put evidence tape on it again, don't they? I know Culhane testified to their procedures.... and then the "evidence" is signed for by the officer that takes it from the lab.

I didn't see any evidence that the prosecution gave to explain why the evidence tape was cut, and why it was scotch taped back up. Maybe I just haven't read it yet.

as for the tape on the vial.... I did a quick google search last night... I see what he was talking about BUTTTTTTT I didn't see or didn't hear that it was the procedure at the crime lab in this case.

 

[Sustained]

Not a stretch at all. One is the palm of his hand, where he is worried about being revealed, one is the back of his hand that if he was wearing gloves he may not even have noticed. And he reaches in with the gloves grabs the key, One smudge, turns the key and goes to pull the key smudge two.. Two different directions. It is common sense.

SA must not have any common sense as he :

1) Used *67 to hide his phone number twice when calling TH
2) Killed her on the family property knowing he could be seen/heard at anytime by other family members
3) Hid her vehicle in plain sight in the salvage yard knowing LE would be looking for her
4) Burned her body in a firepit/burn barrel right next to his house knowing that bones might be found
5) Shot her in his own garage knowing the shots might be heard and cleanup would be necessary
6) Hid TH's key in his tiny bedroom
7) Relied on an impressionable 16-year-old not to tell anyone

Is he possibly guilty ? If he is, he has to be one of the dumbest criminals on earth as he already spent 18 years in a maximum-security prison and knew what it was like.

As a side note, does anyone have a theory as to why SA or whomever removed the battery cables from the battery ?

 

[missy1974]

Tweet for the day from KZ:

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 7m7 minutes ago
Struck a nerve re planted evidence/Kratz book bc 7 of KZ tweets GONE. Kind of like TH's DNA on key #MakingAMurderer


apparently Kratz has deleted a bunch of tweets, I didn't even look for him on twitter LOL

ETA: ok wait, maybe it's her tweets that are gone LOL I'm not sure.

 

[MysticJynx]

As a side note, does anyone have a theory as to why SA or whomever removed the battery cables from the battery ?

Respectfully snipped by me

Or why there was blood on the passengers side of the car at all? especially in the metal frame around the rear passengers door?
Was just working on a new picture. Will probably post it in the blood stains thread or one of those. Three pictures of 3 of the 6 places His blood was found. Sometimes I just don't know where to post things.

 

[MysticJynx]

Respectfully snipped by me

Or why there was blood on the passengers side of the car at all? especially in the metal frame around the rear passengers door?
Was just working on a new picture. Will probably post it in the blood stains thread or one of those. Three pictures of 3 of the 6 places His blood was found. Sometimes I just don't know where to post things.

I actually don't know what thread is good for this. so I will just add it to this one. if they move it then I will know where it goes.