New Docs Part 2

[gardenhart]

As a survivor of sexual abuse as well, I do believe her. Just because she has lied about almost everything else doesn't mean this is a lie. I was told I was lying when I finally told my mom about my father molesting me.

I just don't get the feeling KC was lying in this case.

I'm profoundly sorry for anyone who experiences this, but I feel that some of you who are survivors are personalizing the issue perhaps a bit too much. None of you can be compared to Casey in any way.

 

[impatientredhead]

As a survivor of sexual abuse as well, I do believe her. Just because she has lied about almost everything else doesn't mean this is a lie. I was told I was lying when I finally told my mom about my father molesting me.

I just don't get the feeling KC was lying in this case.

I am a survivor as well, raised with a BPD mother that so reminds me of Cindy, and a stepfather that stood by silently while through years of her abuse and insanity. So I can definitely see sexual abuse being a viable option for the list of things that have happened to Casey, but even as a survivor and getting how serious the issue is and how horrible it is not to be believed when you do tell someone I don't believe her.

There are many reasons I don't. She has lied about everything including the color of the sky being just one of them. I actually feel bad for Lee that this is out there unsubstantiated like this. We have seen that Cindy will trash Casey to her friends and lovers. She told Ryan Casey was a sociopath, humilated in front of Jesse, made quite the first impression on Tony. Lee tells Tony that he would have warned him about his sister had there been an earlier opportunity, George tells the cops she is lying and holding back, there is no real loyalty in this family at all. Not even when discussing family members with relative strangers. Casey has reason to paint her family members in a bad light to her friends as a preemptive strike for when these family members start spilling her secrets and warning her friends about Casey.

I wonder what poor Mallory is thinking at this point. She already had the future mother in law from hell to deal with. The public humilation they have created for themselves. The loss of Caylee. The stress of the Casey circus. And now she has to wonder if Lee is or isn't a sexual predator (and if it is true I would assume a sexual abuse survivor as well? As a survivor (really hate that label personally) this would be a major issue for me if a future intended spouse was clearly from this level of dysfunction and then had this allegation hanging out there. Especially if I wanted to have kids with this person.

 

[tiredofthis]

Perhaps those who are geniune victims of sexual abuse are too sensitive about the issue of not being believed and are going too far in believing Casey because of this. In other words, if you are a victim, don't let your experiences color your reaction.

I think everyone on this board wants to think no one would lie about such a thing, but when someone lies about everything else, I have to think this is a lie as well.

I know I'm too sensitive about it, but it's difficult not to be.

 

[not_my_kids]

Perhaps those who are geniune victims of sexual abuse are too sensitive about the issue of not being believed and are going too far in believing Casey because of this. In other words, if you are a victim, don't let your experiences color your reaction.

I think everyone on this board wants to think no one would lie about such a thing, but when someone lies about everything else, I have to think this is a lie as well.

Like I said before, I haven't made up my mind, I think that she may have elaborated on one minro event, if anything, but you never know. I am definitely not arguing that she's telling the truth. And even if she is, it's no excuse. If I had killed my kids because I was abused, I would still deserve a healthy helping of the death penalty. Period.

 

[butwhatif?]

Perhaps those who are geniune victims of sexual abuse are too sensitive about the issue of not being believed and are going too far in believing Casey because of this. In other words, if you are a victim, don't let your experiences color your reaction.

I think everyone on this board wants to think no one would lie about such a thing, but when someone lies about everything else, I have to think this is a lie as well.

Unless its the secrecy and shame of the abuse that got the victim into the habit of lying.
Perps dont say' feel free to tell anyone about this'...they say 'dont tell, or else'.
And if the victim finds the courage to tell someone they trust, and they are not believed(which happens all too often) this would validate the 'live in silence, and deny deny deny' concept, which then becomes a way of life.

Clearly this doesnt apply to all victims, just the ones that stay victims, instead of evolving into survivors, imo.

 

[not_my_kids]

I'll admit, what you've said about your sister does sound a lot like Casey's behavior. :waitasec: MOO

We still don't know how long it was going on in my family, at least with her. It may have been the one incident alone, or it may have been ongoing for years. Mentally, my sister is too far gone to tell us now.

ETA: since i forgot the point of this post it was this: We aren't sure if there was ongoing abuse that caused her to behave the way she did (lying and stealing) or the abuse was just coincidnetal, after the fact and had nothing to do with her prior behavior.

I can't spell tonight, too much turkey. lol

 

[ThoughtElf]

I'm profoundly sorry for anyone who experiences this, but I feel that some of you who are survivors are personalizing the issue perhaps a bit too much. None of you can be compared to Casey in any way.

I agree.

I'd extend that thought to also include the many threads and posts that include 'comparative' pyschiatric diagnosis of KC and the A's, based upon personal experiences.

I appreciate reading, and am often moved by the courage many here have displayed in moving forwards, without letting their own personal hurdles to ultimately impact they way they choose to live their lives. Many are deserving of both sympathy and kudos.

That said, each individual is unique. As is each scenario.

I've yet to read a post here from a victim, diagnosed sufferer or anyone else that I would put in the same category as KC. Or even CA.

It's very educational to share and learn, but unfortunately, KC's circumstances are/were unique, too.

I also find myself relating to certain things that are done, said and supposed, but on the other hand, I know that I lived my experiences, not theirs.

Bottom-line is that while many here are wise and have walked the walk, I don't personally believe that anyone here has had the exact circumstances in play emotionally, with the exact same real or imagined abuses, with psych over-lays and whatnot, in play in exactly the same manner.

We have to stand back a bit and use our knowledge to try to understand and to educate, without assuming that our experience IS the same as KC's. Some aspects MAY BE similiar, but just as your own have their own nuances, so to does KC's.

Hope that makes sense.

My heart goes out to each and every one of you have have survived SA, emotional abuse, physical abuse and/or pyschiatric dysfunctions in your lives. BTDT, just remember that YOUR story is YOUR own - and should never be judged, minimized or lumped into a 'like' basket with others, just because they understand. Nor should KC's.

She chose a path NONE of us have. That's the difference that should be remembered when trying to draw like parallels.

 

[LiveLoveLaughLiza]

Panthera found them!! Originally Posted by panthera
I had to look them up again!

Part 5 starting at pg. 37 of the pdf.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155477.pdf

And yes, I was shocked because I *know* she said she wasn't a customer there...it's just where she and some guys pushed the car when it ran out of gas. I know she lies, yet it threw me because (again) it was an obvious and easily provable lie.

Thank you tippytoes and Panthera. I could not find them if I was paid. I stayed up until 4:45 this morning reading, then got up at 7:30. I am still cross-eyed.:crazy:

 

[LiveLoveLaughLiza]

Just too many people overlooked and excused her behavior until it was too late for Caylee, imo. I agree with you, but also remember that despite this forged deposit slip, GA even put Casey as a signatory on Caylee's college trust fund, so she could help herself to it and drained it down to $5. MOO

I know! Why in the h*ll would he do that? I laughed to myself while watching the FBI video with George. Said to myself, "d*mn George, if you knew she was taking the money out of the piggy bank, why did you keep putting money in there?" :crazy: He plays the victim well, I bet the FBIGuys thought the same.

 

[LiveLoveLaughLiza]

Right. But I'm sure KC knew she was pregnant months before Cindy found out. If there was a chance that she was carrying her brother's child I do believe she would have been tested and terminated the pregnancy after missing a period or two at the most.

I wouldn't expect her or anyone else to have an abortion at 7-8 months... I just don't feel for a second it would have gotten to that point or that Cindy would have ever known KC was pregnant - much less with Lee's child.

She knew she was pregnant in January. IIRC that is when she texted Jessie and told him she was pregnant and he was the father.

If what I have bolded in your post was true, IMHO I would think that Casey would see this as an asset.....always having the upper hand and enjoy blackmailing the A's.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

This is a way too sensitive subject for this forum to be able to appreciate properly, except to understand that this is a lot more common than most realize. The best we can take away from this discussion, I think, is that it would be difficult to know if the lies are a result of abuse or created the fantasy. Thank God there are many survivors who are not victims -- and certainly wouldn't condone the fact that any kind of abuse could excuse murdering your child.

 

[lucy54]

ok, here's what I don't get. If KC really was uncomfortable around LA because of what she alleges - why doesn't she act that way? She and LA are very close, she admits it and so does CA. I don't get it.

I am not sure whether I believe the allegations KC made against her brother Lee to Jesse and Tony. My gut instinct is that there is truth to it. I have taught sexually abused children who share many similar traits to KC. Also, sometimes people who are sexually abused are very loyal to the person who does it to them. Especially if no one believes them and the abuse continues on. They can stay close to the person and pretend as if it never happened. Oprah had an episode on this a few years back where 2 women were SA by their dad's best friend. Their dad even knew about it and basically pretended like it never happened. And for years they still went on vacations with this man and celebrated holidays with him.

If Lee did sexually assault KC, then I can understand why she has such severe problems. I do not think it's an excuse for murdering her daughter though and she still needs to be fully punished.

 

[MD MOMMY]

I'm confused about the AR part. I thought we heard that he lied when asked about a realationship with KC and that is why he was let go from the police department? No where in the section about him and the incident does it say that he lied at first. It just says that he admitted to it. I wonder why he got fired then?

 

[MD MOMMY]

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155618.pdf
Here is the IMs with Lassen.

Don't know if this has been mentioned but his name is Iassen. Just to remove some confusion.

 

[shelbar53]

Remember when Cindy told LE that she knows who the father is, they went to a lawyer and some legal papers drawn up to name them custodian of caylee in case anything happened to casey. she couldnt remember Erics last name but had the paperwork at home.

LE looked into that and checked with the lawyer and he knew NOTHING about it, never even heard of an Eric. Another example of cindy lieing to LE. What is wrong with her, didnt she think LE would follow up on that.

 

[gardenhart]

I agree.

I'd extend that thought to also include the many threads and posts that include 'comparative' pyschiatric diagnosis of KC and the A's, based upon personal experiences.

I appreciate reading, and am often moved by the courage many here have displayed in moving forwards, without letting their own personal hurdles to ultimately impact they way they choose to live their lives. Many are deserving of both sympathy and kudos.

That said, each individual is unique. As is each scenario.

I've yet to read a post here from a victim, diagnosed sufferer or anyone else that I would put in the same category as KC. Or even CA.

It's very educational to share and learn, but unfortunately, KC's circumstances are/were unique, too.

I also find myself relating to certain things that are done, said and supposed, but on the other hand, I know that I lived my experiences, not theirs.

Bottom-line is that while many here are wise and have walked the walk, I don't personally believe that anyone here has had the exact circumstances in play emotionally, with the exact same real or imagined abuses, with psych over-lays and whatnot, in play in exactly the same manner.

We have to stand back a bit and use our knowledge to try to understand and to educate, without assuming that our experience IS the same as KC's. Some aspects MAY BE similiar, but just as your own have their own nuances, so to does KC's.

Hope that makes sense.

My heart goes out to each and every one of you have have survived SA, emotional abuse, physical abuse and/or pyschiatric dysfunctions in your lives. BTDT, just remember that YOUR story is YOUR own - and should never be judged, minimized or lumped into a 'like' basket with others, just because they understand. Nor should KC's.

She chose a path NONE of us have. That's the difference that should be remembered when trying to draw like parallels.

Well said, Potatohead. You're obviously no potato head.

 

[gardenhart]

I know I'm too sensitive about it, but it's difficult not to be.

I know. :blowkiss:

One of the things that manipulative people do is play upon others' most sensitive feelings.

 

[MIL]

zanny 23 up, 16 downAlprazolam. More commonly known as Xanax. A short acting benzodiazepine used to treat anxiety.
Don't ya just love wakin up in the morning after droppin a few zannys and having no idea what happened for the past 12 hours?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zanny

 

[Nosey Parker]

At least we now know the shovel wasn't used to bust into the shed to get the gas cans - AL admitted to using a tire iron.

 

[panthera]

Thank you tippytoes and Panthera. I could not find them if I was paid. I stayed up until 4:45 this morning reading, then got up at 7:30. I am still cross-eyed.:crazy:

Oh you're most welcome. I still haven't gone through all the documents yet, just kind of hit and miss when I find something interesting. Tomorrow I should be able to read more of them.