New "I'm not convinced" thread

[Anderson]

That was not my thought at all.

Thank you.

I'm sure that after you have read the book "Twin Connections" you are more of an expert than I, because I am merely, but a twin...but I assure you, her father did not react for a very real reason and I suspect that reason was that NC was prone to exaggeration....

No, I think that you misunderstood or I could have been clearer, perhaps. The comment on my post was just MY thought, which is just another way of saying IMO, JMHO etc.

I am not at all an expert and have only responded to your comments on the 'twin bond'. I have already said that I do not understand the 'twin bond'. I have not read the book that I referred to, only the abstract, which supports your insight: you are the expert. I do think that the 'twin bond' and your comments on the issue are very interesting!

However, if you accept that the twin bond should be accepted in one instance/situation, then that applies across the board according to logic. Similiarily, the distinction that you made (twins may overreact to protect a twin, so the bond factor does not always translate to truth about a given situation) would also apply across the board, and MAY apply to why GR did not initially take it seriously. I have no idea. I am using your arguments.

I personally think that KL is telling the truth, but that is just my humble opinion.

As far as the exaggeration issue goes, I have already responded to that in my post above on Canadian sarcasm. I am sure that GR has a Great Sense of Humour (GSOH) too.

 

[MoonFlwr]

As far as Krista calling her father and begging....I still feel that it is strange that Mr. K indicated during one of the earlier pressers that he was not concerned with or fearful of her safety...it just does not add up...

snipped for clarity.

Yes, this is the part that I found interesting the first time you mentioned it!

 

[rwesafe]

The coincidence is quite striking though, would you not agree, that Krista was feeling frantic about Nancy's situation, to the point that she herself was in tears and calling their father to discuss how to get her out of Canada, and week(s) later Nancy just happens to be murdered?

We can say that Nancy exaggerated, or that Krista worried too much or that the parents 'should have' known something (though why they should have known I don't exactly know), but at the end of that HH trip Nancy was scared/sad/sobbing to come home and 5 days later Nancy WAS murdered. If that isn't the biggest coinky-dink I don't know what is.

So here's another stat for you to research: how many women who are in a contentious, hostile rel'p, heading towards divorce, whose sibling(s) and friends are worried, are murdered, and someone else (NOT the intimate partner/spouse of the victim) committed or was responsible for the crime?

I bet that % is very low, but if you can research it and provide some info on what you are able to find, that would be great.

Yeah, I don't know. I was worried about my twin....just not feeling right inside, wrote a letter to my twin expressing my concern...received a reassuring email the same day and 8 days later....dead. But, again, I did not know why....until the autopsy report came in the mail. But yeah, they are a different family and every family, with or without twins, is different.

My interest in this case was derived from the fact that NC was a twin. I had just lost mine and I felt so horrible for her sister. It is so painful...but I still need...evidence that he did it....and I have not seen any that convinces me.

I may be wrong, I accept that, but my gut tells me otherwise. But we have all had a false gut at one time or another?

I have nothing of value to add. Losing my twin is too fresh and I am not objective in this regard so I will refrain from espousing my opinion further.

 

[NC_Mom_Next_Door]

[ how many women who are in a contentious, hostile rel'p, heading towards divorce, whose sibling(s) and friends are worried, are murdered, and someone else (NOT the intimate partner/spouse of the victim) committed or was responsible for the crime? I bet that % is very low, but if you can research it and provide some info on what you are able to find, that would be great.[/QUOTE]

The thing is, it wasn't really that hostile or contentious, not in terms of most divorce relationships and NO ONE has reported any physical violence whatsoever. Not even a slap or shove, I don't think. Being worried is probably common and probably correlates with emotional closeness/geographic distance (we worry more about our closest loved ones who are farther away).

Did Nancy herself say she thought Brad was going to kill her? (I don't recall.) There's a strong correlation to a victim calling police and saying my husband is going to kill me--but also, there's a lot of women who will intimate that in order to gain sympathy or the upper hand. Nancy were prone to exaggeration, and didn't say anything like this, then that points away from it even more.

I'm pretty sure that statistics show that almost all spousal murders (divorce scenario or not) are preceded by other violence, usually a long pattern.

But surely someone on here has access to these kinds of stats?

Of course, if we are going by stats--the statistics for random murder and spousal murder are way below national averages in Cary NC, so not sure stats really mean anything in this case...

 

[SleuthyGal]

I still need...evidence that he did it....and I have not seen any that convinces me.

I totally understand. And it's only through evidence that this case will ever get resolved in a court of law. The rest is lovely to speculate about, but nothing that will be used in court by a judge or jury.

 

[jmflu]

Yeah, I don't know. I was worried about my twin....just not feeling right inside, wrote a letter to my twin expressing my concern...received a reassuring email the same day and 8 days later....dead. But, again, I did not know why....until the autopsy report came in the mail. But yeah, they are a different family and every family, with or without twins, is different.

My interest in this case was derived from the fact that NC was a twin. I had just lost mine and I felt so horrible for her sister. It is so painful...but I still need...evidence that he did it....and I have not seen any that convinces me.

I may be wrong, I accept that, but my gut tells me otherwise. But we have all had a false gut at one time or another?

I have nothing of value to add. Losing my twin is too fresh and I am not objective in this regard so I will refrain from espousing my opinion further.

I can't tell you how sad I feel that you lost your twin... I am so sorry. Please don't stop espousing your theory.

 

[ncsu95]

Yeah, I don't know. I was worried about my twin....just not feeling right inside, wrote a letter to my twin expressing my concern...received a reassuring email the same day and 8 days later....dead. But, again, I did not know why....until the autopsy report came in the mail. But yeah, they are a different family and every family, with or without twins, is different.

My interest in this case was derived from the fact that NC was a twin. I had just lost mine and I felt so horrible for her sister. It is so painful...but I still need...evidence that he did it....and I have not seen any that convinces me.

I may be wrong, I accept that, but my gut tells me otherwise. But we have all had a false gut at one time or another?

I have nothing of value to add. Losing my twin is too fresh and I am not objective in this regard so I will refrain from espousing my opinion further.

Please don't leave it just to me Your opinion is valued and appreciated.

 

[SleuthyGal]

[ how many women who are in a contentious, hostile rel'p, heading towards divorce, whose sibling(s) and friends are worried, are murdered, and someone else (NOT the intimate partner/spouse of the victim) committed or was responsible for the crime? I bet that % is very low, but if you can research it and provide some info on what you are able to find, that would be great.

The thing is, it wasn't really that hostile or contentious, not in terms of most divorce relationships What is the factual basis of this statement?and NO ONE has reported any physical violence whatsoever. Not even a slap or shove, I don't think. Being worried is probably common and probably correlates with emotional closeness/geographic distance (we worry more about our closest loved ones who are farther away). Nancy's closest local friends...those that saw her almost every day...were worried about her escalating situation. They testified to this in court.

Did Nancy herself say she thought Brad was going to kill her? (I don't recall.) No Idea, Laci Peterson didn't either. There's a strong correlation to a victim calling police and saying my husband is going to kill me--but also, there's a lot of women who will intimate that in order to gain sympathy or the upper hand. So you're saying that either calling or not calling is equally insignificantNancy were prone to exaggeration, That's an opinion from one or two of the defense affiants and didn't say anything like this, then that points away from it even more.

I'm pretty sure that statistics show that almost all spousal murders (divorce scenario or not) are preceded by other violence, usually a long pattern. Almost all? What are the stats? Again, didn't happen in the Laci Peterson case and didn't happen in other cases.

But surely someone on here has access to these kinds of stats?

Of course, if we are going by stats--the statistics for random murder and spousal murder are way below national averages in Cary NC, so not sure stats really mean anything in this case... Stats would give some credence to statements like "almost all spouses who are murdered are preceded by a long line of violence." Otherwise such a statement is only one's opinion.[/quote]

My comments in red

 

[Anderson]

Yeah, I don't know. I was worried about my twin....just not feeling right inside, wrote a letter to my twin expressing my concern...received a reassuring email the same day and 8 days later....dead. But, again, I did not know why....until the autopsy report came in the mail. But yeah, they are a different family and every family, with or without twins, is different.

My interest in this case was derived from the fact that NC was a twin. I had just lost mine and I felt so horrible for her sister. It is so painful...but I still need...evidence that he did it....and I have not seen any that convinces me.

I may be wrong, I accept that, but my gut tells me otherwise. But we have all had a false gut at one time or another?

I have nothing of value to add. Losing my twin is too fresh and I am not objective in this regard so I will refrain from espousing my opinion further.

I truly am deeply sorry that you lost your twin. Thanks very much for sharing your insights on the 'twin bond'.

You have posted many valuable things on the board and raised the level of discussion through your committment to learning the truth. I do respect that a lot.

 

[rwesafe]

Please don't leave it just to me Your opinion is valued and appreciated.

Thank you. I can't say that I feel like KL's reactions are rational and I think that there is a possibility that Mr. R did not take it seriously because perhaps both of them are prone to over embellishments. I'm sure he is regretful now, but there is no way to know these things. It is no fault of the family.

KL has demonstated similar traits to NC, even going so far as to not let BC see his kids based on a Cashiers check (not)being cleared....and really I think we all know better than that....but she is hurt and feels like half of a person now that her sister is gone....her only tangible evidence of her being now lives within NC's children....I can understand that need to hold on at any cost to that last bit of connection....but that does not make it a fact that BC is responsible for taking her sister....The grieving process is too fresh.....It is too soon and too hard for her to be rational or unbiased in this situation...but that is JMO.

 

[momto3kids]

KL has demonstated similar traits to NC, even going so far as to not let BC see his kids based on a Cashiers check (not)being cleared....and really I think we all know better than that....

This is absolutely NOT true. BC has not seen the girl's because she had gone strictly per court order and the visitation set up. She was cross examined about the CC and being paid.

 

[rwesafe]

This is absolutely NOT true. BC has not seen the girl's because she had gone strictly per court order and the visitation set up. She was cross examined about the CC and being paid.

Then I stand corrected.

 

[momto3kids]

Then I stand corrected.

1st rwesafe...my condolences about your twin.

I do know KL is bitter. She showed it on the stand with her voice, her facial expressions and wording. She is NOT going to allow BC an additional moment of time that is not court ordered. I know JL told he gave extra time to BC when the girls weren't still for the webcam.
JL does all the interaction when it comes to BC and the girls.

I will admit I was rather surprised the girl's have not seen BC the entire time they have been here. But, I am not in KL position who just lost a twin sister and was witness to NC marriage. If I were in her position I would most likely be the same way.

I guess I am thinking not of BC feelings, but the girl's to see him for 30 minutes, especially if they do go back to Canada in the next few days.

 

[rwesafe]

1st rwesafe...my condolences about your twin.

I do know KL is bitter. She showed it on the stand with her voice, her facial expressions and wording. She is NOT going to allow BC an additional moment of time that is not court ordered. I know JL told he gave extra time to BC when the girls weren't still for the webcam.
JL does all the interaction when it comes to BC and the girls.

I will admit I was rather surprised the girl's have not seen BC the entire time they have been here. But, I am not in KL position who just lost a twin sister and was witness to NC marriage. If I were in her position I would most likely be the same way.

I guess I am thinking not of BC feelings, but the girl's to see him for 30 minutes, especially if they do go back to Canada in the next few days.

Thank you.

My point is as yours. As a twin it is impossible to not be bitter and I would not be a bit suprised if KL was not also bitter towards NC's friends. It is difficult to explain losing a twin. It almost becomes imperative to find someone to blame. Otherwise, it feels as if your twin betrayed you. You have no concept of them not being there and it feels really horrible when they are not. It does not promote rational thinking or even the ability to look at the evidence or other possibilities that exist. I am in no way trying to be disrespectful to her feelings. I do not intend or wish to imply that she is purposely being deceitful or not forthcoming with information that could be useful in this case. She is trying to cope and hold on to the only remaining part of her twin that she has left. It is completely understandable.

 

[SleuthyGal]

It may allow some doubt for after the murder if your assertion is correct, but how then do you account for KL's feelings of fear/despair BEFORE the murder? She felt strong enough/scared enough to cry to their father shortly before Nancy was murdered; that's a fact testified to by two people--that implies KL was REALLY concerned. And then in a coinky-dink to rival all other coinky-dinks, her sister, the one she was fearful for and was scared for, was murdered.

 

[momto3kids]

Wasn't it posted or some article mention of KL calling her dad while he was in China or some cruise? I also thought it was around the time NC was to move and things changed quickly...like passports being taken.

 

[rwesafe]

It may allow some doubt for after the murder if your assertion is correct, but how then do you account for KL's feelings of fear/despair BEFORE the murder? She felt strong enough/scared enough to cry to their father shortly before Nancy was murdered; that's a fact testified to by two people--that implies KL was REALLY concerned. And then in a coinky-dink to rival all other coinky-dinks, her sister, the one she was fearful for and was scared for, was murdered.

Wasn't it posted or some article mention of KL calling her dad while he was in China or some cruise? I also thought it was around the time NC was to move and things changed quickly...like passports being taken.

It was indeed said that she called him while he was in China, but again, I state that it is only strange because he states in a presser that he was not concerned or in fear of NC's safety. I maintain that this is strange, especially if KL called with these concerns and especially if she called and displayed the same degree of fear and sense of urgency...it just does not add up....

 

[SleuthyGal]

So because Garry Rentz did not feel the same level of 'panic' that KL did that means that Nancy really wasn't in any danger? Couldn't it mean that GR just wasn't quite as tuned-in to the feelings that KL was? Because in the end, Nancy was murdered; that is not disputed by anyone. So if you're going to discount one of the two (KL or GR) then common sense would tell you that KL was correct--her sister WAS in danger. She WAS murdered and not long after those fears emerged. That very result proves her fears were for a reason.

 

[rwesafe]

So because Garry Rentz did not feel the same level of 'panic' that KL did that means that Nancy really wasn't in any danger? Couldn't it mean that GR just wasn't quite as tuned-in to the feelings that KL was? Because in the end, Nancy was murdered; that is not disputed by anyone. So if you're going to discount one of the two (KL or GR) then common sense would tell you that KL was correct--her sister WAS in danger. She WAS murdered and not long after those fears emerged. That very result proves her fears were for a reason.

I'm not a good communicator, because that is not what I am saying at all. I give.

 

[momto3kids]

What we don't know is if GR called NC and got a level of comfort once he found out what KL panic was for. It appears it was because of the water being turned off per JD affidavit.

Yes, KL was absolutely correct in her feelings and the danger NC was in. She also was present at the Cooper household more often than anyone else. She felt it like no other.

I bet not a day goes by for GR and the regret he has now for not taking action. It is an awful punishment for a parent to have to live with. I can't imagine how many times he has played this over in his mind with an aching heart. To bury a child I understand is the worst pain a parent can feel.