New "I'm not convinced" thread

[jilly]

I will admit I was rather surprised the girl's have not seen BC the entire time they have been here. But, I am not in KL position who just lost a twin sister and was witness to NC marriage. If I were in her position I would most likely be the same way.

Me too! If I was in Krista's position, I'm sure I would do the same thing. She's convinced BC murdered her sister and took her niece's mother away from them.

Otoh, looking at it logically, the children have been deprived of seeing their father. BC hasn't been charged and legally should be able to at least see them. Convicted murderers in prison get to see their children. The fact that it wasn't addressed in the Court order doesn't mean he can't imo. Perhaps Nancy's father could have somehow arranged a supervised visit at their hotel.

I don't know....what a horrible, horrible situation for everyone. If BC does get custody, then I suppose he can prevent the family from having access. Before this case, it was my understanding that grandparents don't even have the right for visitation in NC. I wouldn't want to see this happen. The grandparents and Listers' really love those children.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I guess when it comes down to it one either believes there was *something* going on that KL and others were picking up--enough of that something to feel very fearful for Nancy's predicament (and then it turns out their fears were well-founded as she was indeed murdered).

OR

It's a huge COINCIDENCE that Nancy just happened to be murdered (and the assertion is of course this was by either a stranger or someone she knew, but not Brad) even though her twin sister and close friends were very concerned for her, even though Nancy herself said she and her husband were back in "hate mode," the night before she was murdered. Yep, that is one huge coincidence.

And no, it's not proof of murder, but it makes you wonder about the level of poor luck/coincidence that happened to Brad Cooper that his wife happened to be murdered when people around her were fearful for her and she herself was in a very strained/volatile situation, and Brad himself said they had been fighting for the day or 2 prior. That's a lot of bad luck along with coincidence.

 

[momto3kids]

It was indeed said that she called him while he was in China, but again, I state that it is only strange because he states in a presser that he was not concerned or in fear of NC's safety. I maintain that this is strange, especially if KL called with these concerns and especially if she called and displayed the same degree of fear and sense of urgency...it just does not add up....

I don't remember the exact way it was asked or answered by GR in the presser, but he did testify he did not witness anything between NC & BC except some expected marriage arguments. But, again it was KL who was visiting the most often and witnessed more than anyone else, especially the preparing the house to market.

I think a twin/sister or mom would have more details given to them by NC in 'girl's talk' than her dad knew about. Her dad seemed to monitor the $ and repair aspect preparing for seperation.

This would be typical in my family if it was occuring to me.

 

[momto3kids]

Me too! If I was in Krista's position, I'm sure I would do the same thing. She's convinced BC murdered her sister and took her niece's mother away from them.

Otoh, looking at it logically, the children have been deprived of seeing their father. BC hasn't been charged and legally should be able to at least see them. The fact that it wasn't addressed in the Court order doesn't mean he can't imo. Perhaps Nancy's father could have somehow arranged a supervised visit at their hotel.

I don't know....what a horrible, horrible situation for everyone. If BC does get custody, then I suppose he can prevent the family from having access. Before this case, it was my understanding that grandparents don't even have the right for visitation in NC. I wouldn't want to see this happen. The grandparents and Listers' really love those children.

You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what SG and I discussed after court.
KL is bitter and angry and has a right to be, her sister was murdered. She feels 100% BC is the one who did it and never held back saying it.

BUT, otoh, if KL loses in court you can bet your sweet bippie he will see to it they never see NC family unless by court order.

This is a fine line to walking. There are NO winners in this situation. Poor little girl's!!

 

[ncsu95]

I personally think that KL is telling the truth, but that is just my humble opinion.

I have no doubts that all witnesses told the truth as they saw it, including KL.

 

[ncsu95]

1st rwesafe...my condolences about your twin.

I do know KL is bitter. She showed it on the stand with her voice, her facial expressions and wording. She is NOT going to allow BC an additional moment of time that is not court ordered. I know JL told he gave extra time to BC when the girls weren't still for the webcam.
JL does all the interaction when it comes to BC and the girls.

I will admit I was rather surprised the girl's have not seen BC the entire time they have been here. But, I am not in KL position who just lost a twin sister and was witness to NC marriage. If I were in her position I would most likely be the same way.

I guess I am thinking not of BC feelings, but the girl's to see him for 30 minutes, especially if they do go back to Canada in the next few days.

Is that in the best interest of the children?

 

[ncsu95]

Me too! If I was in Krista's position, I'm sure I would do the same thing. She's convinced BC murdered her sister and took her niece's mother away from them.

Otoh, looking at it logically, the children have been deprived of seeing their father. BC hasn't been charged and legally should be able to at least see them. Convicted murderers in prison get to see their children. The fact that it wasn't addressed in the Court order doesn't mean he can't imo. Perhaps Nancy's father could have somehow arranged a supervised visit at their hotel.

I don't know....what a horrible, horrible situation for everyone. If BC does get custody, then I suppose he can prevent the family from having access. Before this case, it was my understanding that grandparents don't even have the right for visitation in NC. I wouldn't want to see this happen. The grandparents and Listers' really love those children.

Grandparents rights are limited. I know this because of the situation with my niece that I talked about in the custody hearing thread.

 

[rwesafe]

I have no doubts that all witnesses told the truth as they saw it, including KL.

I concur.

 

[jilly]

You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what SG and I discussed after court.
KL is bitter and angry and has a right to be, her sister was murdered. She feels 100% BC is the one who did it and never held back saying it.

BUT, otoh, if KL loses in court you can bet your sweet bippie he will see to it they never see NC family unless by court order.

This is a fine line to walking. There are NO winners in this situation. Poor little girl's!!

Better for KL to walk this line though than not walk at all imo. If BC does get custody, at least KL will know that she put up a fight for her sister and those children.

The grandmother of jason young's daughter chose not to pursue any legal action (although she has until Nov 3rd to file a WD suit). She was cut off completely because she believes jy murdered her daughter. Even the Christmas presents sent to the grandchild were returned unopened.

 

[jilly]

Grandparents rights are limited. I know this because of the situation with my niece that I talked about in the custody hearing thread.

I haven't even been aware of the "limited". I'll try and find that post. Thank you!

 

[Star12]

It's my understanding that BC cannot go to Canada because he is in the process of becoming a US citizen, and returning to Canada is not allowed.

 

[jilly]

Is that in the best interest of the children?

In her mind, I guess so.

 

[jilly]

It's my understanding that BC cannot go to Canada because he is in the process of becoming a US citizen, and returning to Canada is not allowed.

Yes...I read that somewhere too. For a year? I think. Don't know when that commenced so as to know the expiry date on that.

 

[Lillypad]

Remember that Kl was with NC alot here in NC and she was able to see Brad in teh house and hoe he interacted with Nacy every day. Her afid testifys of some pretty daming thins, IMO. She even asked NC to let her try to tak to him and NC said no it would make it worse, she begged her not too. If I am remembering correctly. (I omly have afew minute, I cant be away frm my lillte one for more that 5 Min at a tme) So what if whe Dad called she beged indiference for the same reason???
My brothers hate my Spouse, and if something happened to me he would be guilty in a minute. My friends would say the same thing.
He is Brad 5 times over and a control freak just because each day, but I appease to keep him from controlling and yealling and belittling and upseeting my child. (=seizures=hospital=damage) But I dont see him getting violent with me, humiliation is much more gadifing I am sure to him. Possibly Kristas insight was a lot clearer seeing from an out siders point of view and what NC thought she could ward off, KL thought was getting way out of hand. remember KL is to have a stable good relationship. Her pain was real for Nacy, Nacy felt it she was trying to deal with it to get the settlement and work it out best she could.

Dad could have felt very steressed over it but like we all do right now over the market what do we do pull out or stay in lets wait a few more days and see, only those few more wait and see were too late.

Bella is 4 is ther anything about her being questioned about that day. Even from KL, Did daddy leave for a lilltle bit? Did they fight? Do we know?? :bang:

 

[momto3kids]

Yes...I read that somewhere too. For a year? I think. Don't know when that commenced so as to know the expiry date on that.

I believe RKAB had made mention of this. She explained if he was in the middle of becoming a US citizen how Canada didn't allow re-entry for a year.
She didn't know if he was or wasn't in the midst of it.

 

[sunflowers]

Remember that Kl was with NC alot here in NC and she was able to see Brad in teh house and hoe he interacted with Nacy every day. Her afid testifys of some pretty daming thins, IMO. She even asked NC to let her try to tak to him and NC said no it would make it worse, she begged her not too. If I am remembering correctly. (I omly have afew minute, I cant be away frm my lillte one for more that 5 Min at a tme) So what if whe Dad called she beged indiference for the same reason???
My brothers hate my Spouse, and if something happened to me he would be guilty in a minute. My friends would say the same thing.
He is Brad 5 times over and a control freak just because each day, but I appease to keep him from controlling and yealling and belittling and upseeting my child. (=seizures=hospital=damage) But I dont see him getting violent with me, humiliation is much more gadifing I am sure to him. Possibly Kristas insight was a lot clearer seeing from an out siders point of view and what NC thought she could ward off, KL thought was getting way out of hand. remember KL is to have a stable good relationship. Her pain was real for Nacy, Nacy felt it she was trying to deal with it to get the settlement and work it out best she could.

Dad could have felt very steressed over it but like we all do right now over the market what do we do pull out or stay in lets wait a few more days and see, only those few more wait and see were too late.

Bella is 4 is ther anything about her being questioned about that day. Even from KL, Did daddy leave for a lilltle bit? Did they fight? Do we know?? :bang:

i'm sorry, lillypad, for your situation.... warm thoughts & hugs to you

 

[ncsu95]

Here is why I have my doubts about BCs involvement:

1. First and foremost is the witness that saw her jogging on July 12th. The woman does not appear to have any motive to lie. I know eyewitness testimony can be sketchy, but the fact that she identified NC the day she went missing as the person she saw that morning makes it credible to me. She's much less likely to mistake the identity of someone the same day she saw it. Also, she went to LE with that information the next day, and continued doing so. I simply find her statement credible. It fits the timeframe that NC would have reached that point if in fact she left her house at 7:00 AM.

2. The 2 trips to HT and the phone call from NC to BC. The fact that her phone is currently locked, and BC indicated the morning she went missing that it was locked makes it more credible that she made the call to BC. I do not believe he would have known the password given her distrust of him and her belief that he was monitoring her calls. I do not believe that she would have left her phone unlocked for the same reason. It is possible that he set up the lock that morning, but I find that to be less believable. I wonder if there are system logs to indicate when a password was set and when the phone was accessed. That sure would clear it up.

3. I have yet to see anything that shows that what BC said he did that morning could not have been done. In addition, and maybe even bigger for me, is that he says Katie was awake that morning and both he and NC attended to her. If he is lying, why would he include Katie in the lie. I know she is only 2, but it would have been possible for someone to ask her that day if she saw mommy that morning. His story about going to HT makes sense. Him going twice makes sense to me. His shoes changing even adds to it. He comes home from the first trip and takes his shoes off. NC sends him back, so he just slips on some flip flops and goes so he can get it done. It shows a casualness to his behavior. If the 2nd trip was only to establish the phone call (again from a locked phone), why take the time to change shoes. I'm sure he couldn't have anticipated the shoes being visible on camera (if he was planning here). So again, the changing of shoes show a casualness to his behavior that morning in my opinion, and not behavior of someone that just killed his wife and was trying to cover up.

4. Brad cleaning that morning. Now this one I'm sure I'll get blasted for, but I understand why he did it based on his deposition. Again, my opinion here. I believe that BC did not want to get divorced and wanted his marriage to work. There are several things that lead me to believe this. First is going to marriage counseling. 2nd is stopping his training for the ironman so that he could spend more time with the family, even during this rough time. Third is trying to get the financial picture back in order (I'm sure this can be debated). Now I have been in a similar situation with a mistake of a marriage in my mid 20s. I wanted it to work, she didn't. We lived in this situation in separate rooms for 9 months. I went through periods of anger and periods of trying to be a super husband to win her back. I also separated our finances early in the process to stop us from running up additional debt. I still wanted it to work, but I was protecting myself in case it didn't. But I did go through both phases. I believe he did clean while she was at Hilton Head. I do believe she wasn't pleased with what he called cleaning. And I believe he intended to do the things she wanted on that Saturday (the next day off he had since she came back from vacation).

5. Brad's behavior after getting the call from JA. He has maintained all along that she went running. For him to call JA to get Carey's place of business or home and to go there would make sense. To go to LTF to see if she was there would make sense. I don't see how these actions make him look guilty.

6. His willingness to talk to detectives up until her body was found.

7. The fact that not a single person has ever indicated that he had a violent tendancy. None of her friends have ever seen him mistreat her either.

8. The fact that she had significant freedom in the marriage. I know we have the controlling thread to discuss his controlling behavior, but NC appeared to be able to have and maintain friendships. She wasn't cut off from her family. She was able to go out and leave the girls with him frequently. She appears to have led a very social life.


I'm not trying to convince anyone, and I'm not convinced he is innocent. However, after #1 occurred, I'm probably 60/40 towards non guilty. I just go back and look at what he said occurred that morning...and have yet to see anything to show that what he said wasn't possible.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Yikes Sunflowers! I hope you get some positive resolution to your situation at home; I'm sorry for all that stress.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I'm not trying to convince anyone, and I'm not convinced he is innocent. However, after #1 occurred, I'm probably 60/40 towards non guilty. I just go back and look at what he said occurred that morning...and have yet to see anything to show that what he said wasn't possible.

That's quite a list NCSU! I can see why you are not convinced.

For me I am looking at areas of inconsistency between Brad's various statements and statements also made by others too.

I don't happen to see a 4-hr cleaning binge as something he would normally do (there are several affys that state the exact opposite--I have no reason to doubt the statements made by several people on that matter). Furthermore, in the courtroom we heard the recording of the phone call from Nancy to her father upon her return from HH on 7/5 in which she details what a mess the house is, and you can hear the frustration in her voice as she's going through what she was seeing. This is not something the public has been privy to, as it was only played in court. But there was no doubt about what she said she was dealing with in the house (dishes left in the sink from when she first left a week before, etc, etc.). She was specific in her description. So there's testimony right there from the victim...brought into the courtroom in a very real way, that just so happens to contradict what Brad claimed.

Where I see major inconsistencies I note them (and it throws up a red flag).

It's not that Brad didn't have time to do these various things as he claims that day, it's that his accounts of his activities are not consistent and it's caused that hinky feeling.

 

[cygnusx1]

Here is why I have my doubts about BCs involvement:

SNIP

:clap::clap::clap: