GUILTY New Zealand - Dr. Lauren Dickason, 40, charged w/killing her 3 young daughters, Timaru, 16 Sep 2021

[cjm11]

What killer mum told psychiatrist, husband after deaths

Letters sent by Lauren Dickason to her husband after she was arrested revealed in court.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Graham Dickason reportedly wrote to his wife after he returned to South Africa saying he could not understand how the alleged murders had happened.

In reply, Dickason told her husband she had “difficulty understanding his lack of understanding” given he had “been there with her all through it”.

Very telling about their respective thoughts.

 

[Cedars]

There are many horrific criminals who have had absolutely awful lives- to whom LDs life would look like paradise. Really can’t understand the empathy for her, at all. It’s obviously massively in her best interests to portray herself as mentally disturbed/insane.

Mothers can be evil. Sadly- more so towards children who are not biologically their own. Genetics are powerful.

A good example of this is the men who kill their families and then themselves.

I've no doubt they have mental illness and huge stress in their lives, perhaps from the crazy demands they feel that society places on them to be perfect, in-charge problem-solvers and providers. They may feel their wives dismiss their feelings, just nag, and only want their money. They somehow decide that everyone would be better off dead, including themselves.

They less often survive their suicide attempt, because they use a gun.

But if they do survive, they are guilty, no question.

I think having empathy for criminals is a good thing. But it doesn't make them innocent of their crime, it doesn't mean they deserve the status of 'victim'. The people they harmed are the victims.

JMO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Graham: "I am very aware that you feel this way. I am just very unsure how to help you - actually I am realising I can’t help you, you have to manage by yourself."

YOU HAVE TO MANAGE BY YOURSELF?!? What a husband. SMH.

Oh... that's...speaks for itself, I guess.

 

[cjm11]

I believe the men you are talking didn't suffer from post partum depression, major depression and severe anxiety.

I have trouble with "innocent" by reason of insanity. "Guilty" by reason of insanity might be more appropriate. But I do believe the whole family was a victim in this tragedy.

I believe Lauren deserves to be treated mentally in an institution, not prison to see if she can be rehabilitated. There will not be an immediate "healing" where she would shorty be released if found insane with altruistic features.

Just wondering if anyone here has had PPD. I have, maybe that's why I'm more sympathetic right now. We still have more psychiatrists to hear. Opinions are allowed to change about Lauren.

 

[cjm11]

Right now we know she had NO support system. Her mother told her family not to bring up Lauren’s mental health. She didn't want to upset Lauren. We know Graham pushed her away every time she expressed her feelings to him: "you have to manage by yourself", "put your big girl panties on and deal with it", "do you know how crazy you sound?" She told a friend she was feeling suicidal.

What was Lauren supposed to do? She tried going back on the antidepressants on her own as she was allowed to write her own prescriptions in NZ. She apparently was doing the best she could at the time. At no time did anyone come to her aid and get her REAL help. The sicker she got it came to a point of murder to relieve the pain she feeling mentally. Mental pain is very real. Have you ever had SO MUCH PAIN you couldn't handle it and needed help or what might you do?

All my opinion only.

ETA: She couldn't get help in NZ because they were questioning her mental health and wanted an update. Their Visas would be revoked with no where to go was her thinking I am guessing. Someone else had to step in and get her the help she needed, darn the Visa's.

 

[Sarahlou]

I believe the men you are talking didn't suffer from post partum depression, major depression and severe anxiety.

I have trouble with "innocent" by reason of insanity. "Guilty" by reason of insanity might be more appropriate. But I do believe the whole family was a victim in this tragedy.

I believe Lauren deserves to be treated mentally in an institution, not prison to see if she can be rehabilitated. There will not be an immediate "healing" where she would shorty be released if found insane with altruistic features.

Just wondering if anyone here has had PPD. I have, maybe that's why I'm more sympathetic right now. We still have more psychiatrists to hear. Opinions are allowed to change about Lauren.

I agree completely.
Sorry you had PPD, it's a horrid thing. I haven't had it but my nephew's mum did and she had to be admitted to a unit that specialised in it.
It's scary how PPD can alter how people think and behave.

 

[Schatz]

I believe the men you are talking didn't suffer from post partum depression, major depression and severe anxiety.

I have trouble with "innocent" by reason of insanity. "Guilty" by reason of insanity might be more appropriate. But I do believe the whole family was a victim in this tragedy.

I believe Lauren deserves to be treated mentally in an institution, not prison to see if she can be rehabilitated. There will not be an immediate "healing" where she would shorty be released if found insane with altruistic features.

Just wondering if anyone here has had PPD. I have, maybe that's why I'm more sympathetic right now. We still have more psychiatrists to hear. Opinions are allowed to change about Lauren.

No, but I had undiagnosed OCD and was a mess and should have been medicated and although my struggle was paralyzing fear that something would happen to my child, I had a moment of knowing that the hormones associated with being postpartum and anything else going on mental health wise is a very bad cocktail, and I had empathy for women who experience postpartum psychosis. I do not think they should be put in prison, they need mental health treatment.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The kids couldn’t sleep without Graham?
And asked for him all day?
That indicates an abnormal attachment to LD- probably because she was abusive (emotionally abusive at the very least). If she spent the most time with the kids and they wanted Graham… that is not normal.

I’ve known mothers that say the things she says. They were abusive, likely narcissistic, without ANY major red flags that would warrant interest from police or social workers. Fed and clothed the kids and made sure they did their homework. Resented every minute of it. Obsessed with the image of a perfect family.

The narcissistic rage is so apparent.
“My kids don’t like me”
“I struggled to bond”
“I want to divorce my kids”
“My kids don’t appreciate me”
“My kids abuse me” (at age 2)
“My kids hit me and throw food at me”
“K was mean to me… that’s why I killed her first”
“I feel like a bad mother”
“I am going to strangle her”
“She moans all the time”

I had a mother like this. Not psychotic, not delusional, a little paranoid, total control freak that looked like a good, sacrificing mother from the outside. Absolutely wrecked my self esteem with her horrible comments.

I am a mother. I am imperfect and I’m not wealthy and I can’t provide the things I grew up with (expensive lessons, trips overseas). But I have never thought or said any of those things about my kids. Although they do frustrate me and tire me out at times.

Why does no one believe us? There are horrible mothers. Mothers who want their children dead. Mothers who want their children to pay the ultimate price for disobedience because HOW DARE THEY DEFY ME. They are real.

For the sake of those beautiful kids, I hope the jury sees through her lies. Seems like GD does, finally.

I hear you and I totally agree, LD wanted those girls dead, daddy wasn't going to have them, he loved and cherished them, maybe, in LD's eyes, too much, that attention was suppose to be for her, the girls were suppose to be a reflection of his love for her, having babies with her man means SHE is loved! Persevering with IVF is her love for him!
I have no compassion for this woman, none whatsoever.

Yes, these women exist but society likes to pretend they don't. Giving birth doesn't hold the same value for every single woman but we pretend it does, there are mothers and fathers who despise their children because they are their children.
Jmo

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Right now we know she had NO support system. Her mother told her family not to bring up Lauren’s mental health. She didn't want to upset Lauren. We know Graham pushed her away every time she expressed her feelings to him: "you have to manage by yourself", "put your big girl panties on and deal with it", "do you know how crazy you sound?" She told a friend she was feeling suicidal.

What was Lauren supposed to do? She tried going back on the antidepressants on her own as she was allowed to write her own prescriptions in NZ. She apparently was doing the best she could at the time. At no time did anyone come to her aid and get her REAL help. The sicker she got it came to a point of murder to relieve the pain she feeling mentally. Mental pain is very real. Have you ever had SO MUCH PAIN you couldn't handle it and needed help or what might you do?

All my opinion only.

ETA: She couldn't get help in NZ because they were questioning her mental health and wanted an update. Their Visas would be revoked with no where to go was her thinking I am guessing. Someone else had to step in and get her the help she needed, darn the Visa's.

Sorry but when people refuse to help themselves and just continue to complain about a situation, it does leave you sick and tired.
I’ve had to cut off people who don’t actually make any changes just enjoy being a victim.
Bottom line, she could have presented herself for care. She didn’t.

 

[annpats]

I think many people would rather die than be committed to hospital or commit a family member.

But when their mental state becomes so bad (danger of death due to self-harm or harm to others) then there is no choice in the matter.

In the UK, you cannot commit yourself to an enforced in-patient mental hospital stay - a psychiatrist decides that, along with a member of your family, if needed.
Sometimes they can go to hospital in an ambulance, sometimes the police are also called.

Being "sectioned" isn't a self-certification.

Yes, there is a stigma around mental health, but saying someone "would rather die" is ridiculous and over the top.

Many people have, and do, come out of the other side and go on to lead normal healthy lives.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

I think many people would rather die than be committed to hospital or commit a family member.

Meanwhile the shame of murder is totally acceptable?

 

[Sararara]

Can we just acknowledge it was not Graham’s job to stop his wife from murdering their children??

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Can we just acknowledge it was not Graham’s job to stop his wife from murdering their children??

Absolutely.

She probably behaved like it a lot which is why no one took her seriously. If you’re not actively seeking help it can’t be that bad, you’re just whinging and blowing off steam.

 

[annpats]

She tried going back on the antidepressants on her own as she was allowed to write her own prescriptions in NZ.

I think this is incorrect. Yes, she is a doctor. However, she didn't have an employment visa for NZ, and therefore would not be registered to practice medicine there.... hence she would not have been legally able to write prescriptions - for herself or for anyone else.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

ETA: She couldn't get help in NZ because they were questioning her mental health and wanted an update.

Rightly so.

 

[cjm11]

I think this is incorrect. Yes, she is a doctor. However, she didn't have an employment visa for NZ, and therefore would not be registered to practice medicine there.... hence she would not have been legally able to write prescriptions - for herself or for anyone else.

You are correct. I do believe doctors in NZ are allowed to write their own prescriptions. Lauren, as you pointed out, would not have been eligible, however.

I have read she had been on and off antidepressants recently and became confused.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Charlot123]

I believe the men you are talking didn't suffer from post partum depression, major depression and severe anxiety.

I have trouble with "innocent" by reason of insanity. "Guilty" by reason of insanity might be more appropriate. But I do believe the whole family was a victim in this tragedy.

I believe Lauren deserves to be treated mentally in an institution, not prison to see if she can be rehabilitated. There will not be an immediate "healing" where she would shorty be released if found insane with altruistic features.

Just wondering if anyone here has had PPD. I have, maybe that's why I'm more sympathetic right now. We still have more psychiatrists to hear. Opinions are allowed to change about Lauren.

I had PPD, too, or so my father thought. For a very short time. But, my situation was different because I never had a history of depression, no family history of PPD, and because I had a lot of family support. I think it was very short-lived, but I also think I would had misunderstood the symptoms were it not for my father who had experienced depression in his life. I didn't have any self-harming thoughts, nor thoughts of harming others, for me it seemed to be triggered by all the scares of high-risk pregnancy and C-section during which they cut my baby's cheek. By the time I'd even get to see a doctor, everything was gone. 36 hours of non-stop sleep helped, but as I said, my husband and dad were happy to watch over the baby as i was getting that sleep. (And btw, some women are exhausted from pregnancy, then delivery, plus, a colicky baby).

What similarity I see in Lauren's situation. Remember Lauren had anxiety about the cleft palate of the twin? There was concern about breastfeeding, too. I can imagine it mounting through the pregnancy and triggering PPD.

Then, the whole factor of twins.
She didn't work, she actually stayed at home with three kids. I thought Lauren had daytime and nighttime nurses, but now I am reading that the nighttime had left when the Covid started? Lauren was definitely exhausted. Maybe her phrase about Graham being there with her through it all implies lack of support from him?

Lauren had prior history of depression. On the one hand, she had medications that worked for her and was connected to a doctor. What worked against her was that having been depressed before, she probably thought it was just another episode. Also, she might have had prior suicidal thoughts. For me, such pattern of thinking is uncharacteristic. I assume would have immediately called 911 if I had a shred of it.

But here is where i see the weakness of her situation. Her husband was a doctor. Once she told him she had scary thoughts, it was his responsibility to act immediately. Not push them on her to deal with.

And of course, these IVF cycles, it was on her body and her mind. I see them as a huge contributor.

The only strength of her situation I see in financial stability. But it may not hold. She had a longstanding history of depression and from what I read before, maybe PTSD. It doesn't provide one with resilience.

 

[Charlot123]

Lauren Dickason trial: Harrowing fertility journey outlined by husband

Lauren Anne Dickason has admitted killing 6yo Liané and 2yo twins Maya and Karla.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Good article about Graham’s testimony. Thanks to Charlot123. Some points that popped out to me.

Her parents and brother have travelled to New Zealand from South Africa to support her in court. Her husband’s sisters are also attending the trial. Graham Dickason - who has remained in South Africa but appears via audio-visual link - spoke for the first time about the death of his “gorgeous” daughters.

Why is he in SA? Seems he would want to be in NZ to support her. I don't understand this.

When she lost Sarah: The couple got to see and hold the little girl briefly before she was taken away. The death was categorised as a miscarriage and Dickason was not able to take her child home which affected her significantly.

How horrible. The baby had a heartbeat but didn't survive. They didn't allowed the mother to take her and the hospital "disposed" her?? Is that common here in the USA?

Dickason was parenting for much of the time on her own due to the demands of Graham Dickason’s job. He also thought it would be fine for himself to go on a hunting trip.

Three small children, post partum depression, major depression and severe anxiety and she was left to care for the kids mainly on her own.

A hunting trip, really?!? He knew her mental state, she told him the new and harrowing thoughts she was having that really scared her, but he needed time away for a hunting trip, yeah.


Graham: "I am very aware that you feel this way. I am just very unsure how to help you - actually I am realising I can’t help you, you have to manage by yourself."

YOU HAVE TO MANAGE BY YOURSELF?!? What a husband. SMH.

She was screaming about her mental health. No one took her seriously. Then after the murders everyone is dumbfounded as to how that happened.

Yes, this whole part about Graham. I can't blame him, we haven't been through their journey, but some of his responses generate questions. He might be in SA because of deep confusion with the situation and his emotions, but he is not there with her.

About the forced labor. At 18 weeks the doctors considered it late abortion, no fetus is viable on their own. The youngest one to survive was 22 weeks. So the hospital didn't give the body to them. It might have been very traumatic to Lauren, I read somewhere that she was religious. For religious parents, a ceremony would have mattered and provided some closure.

BTW, it would be important to know what kind of complication Lauren had. Everyone says, medical. I always wonder if there could be a medical component to her psychiatric condition as well. It is just my intuitive feeling that there might be something else going on with Lauren, and that something could have been missed but is crucial in understanding her behavior.

This "you manage by yourself" Graham said is something I can't understand either. You trust your wife, Lauren, to carry your biological children, bear them, breastfeed them, and raise them. You know that she is psychologically vulnerable. You can't just say "manage by yourself". And if you do - then don't blame her if she failed to manage.

 

[Charlot123]

Can we just acknowledge it was not Graham’s job to stop his wife from murdering their children??

We really don't know what was happening between the two. I have some questions about the dinner he went to. (I am not assuming something I don't know, I simply admit that I don't know.) All I see is the pattern, even when Graham can be with the family, he leaves the house. Maybe it was a tough, toxic atmosphere in the house, I can see it...but he still felt the kids were safe with Lauren.

 

[silvercrown]

We really don't know what was happening between the two. I have some questions about the dinner he went to. (I am not assuming something I don't know, I simply admit that I don't know.) All I see is the pattern, even when Graham can be with the family, he leaves the house. Maybe it was a tough, toxic atmosphere in the house, I can see it...but he still felt the kids were safe with Lauren.

I mentioned a few days ago that I’m hoping for some insight into their relationship as the trial continues. Just to understand the dynamics a bit better.
These kind of (horrific) things don’t usually seem to happen out of the blue. In my completely layman opinion there are commonly dynamics of unhappy/ending relationships at play when a parent annihilates their children.

I’m personally not reading anything into Graham’s work function as a ‘when the going gets tough the tough get going’ kind of thing. But again, need more context of their relationship.