Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest* #2

[Mariposa]

He comes off as one of those guys who would watch / read pick up artist type of material. Like he probably researched what to say, and creepily tailored messages to appeal to each of the women - as it's clear as day he is a complete liar and fantasist.

I'd hazard a guess he has a serious *advertiser censored* addiction too. Wasn't it noted he search "young teen" type of stuff in the early hours of 2nd December. Ughhhhh.

Totally on the creepily tailored messages— even that “radiant” comment he left on GM’s FB picture was cloying. He seems like someone that can look ok in a still picture but once you see them in action and talking, they are clearly odd and off-putting. Which may explain why he loved Tinder and was compulsively back on it just a few hours after the death, his still photo alone could get him affirmative attention and there was a constant supply of new dates to try his act on.

 

[Edinlass]

I don’t think so as far as I know it’s never been reported that it was said in court.

There’s been speculation here that he’s in some kind of hospitality service industry because of the vest and outfit he’s seen wearing on some CCTV and one of the recorded police interviews.

we do know: not an oil manager

Ha ha Yeah he’s certainly no BP or SHELL enthusiast. He’s a waiter at best.

 

[Edinlass]

I still go back to his last date whom he recalled to police as a ‘friend’. I just like the fact she declined his offer to a second date. In the situation he was in at that point he must have felt some kind of void to his somewhat void-less life.

 

[Pepper77]

I still go back to his last date whom he recalled to police as a ‘friend’. I just like the fact she declined his offer to a second date. In the situation he was in at that point he must have felt some kind of void to his somewhat void-less life.

He was probably thinking ahead to how he'd explain if police suddenly turned up wanting to question him ... "Oh, they're my mates, *wink wink*"

I'm remembering the report that he Googled, 'breaking news' soon after it happened ... that was definitely a reaction of panic.

I'm a bit frustrated that the funding of his lifestyle hasn't been addressed by the prosecution (and isn't likely to be, given that they're wrapping up today). But the clear reason for that is it's not his financial means that are on trial. It's a shame it isn't covered though, as it further shapes what sort of individual he is. I do imagine a lot of information will come out after the trial is done and dusted and name suppression has been lifted.

 

[legal.beagle]

He was probably thinking ahead to how he'd explain if police suddenly turned up wanting to question him ... "Oh, they're my mates, *wink wink*"

I'm remembering the report that he Googled, 'breaking news' soon after it happened ... that was definitely a reaction of panic.

I'm a bit frustrated that the funding of his lifestyle hasn't been addressed by the prosecution (and isn't likely to be, given that they're wrapping up today). But the clear reason for that is it's not his financial means that are on trial. It's a shame it isn't covered though, as it further shapes what sort of individual he is. I do imagine a lot of information will come out after the trial is done and dusted and name suppression has been lifted.

I wouldn't be surprised if he worked some jobs, used government assistance to top up and cover accommodation costs and then used credit cards, especially on the final days. I don't think he has THAT much money? Or am I missing something?

 

[sunnynz]

I've had a quick read up on strangulation and I think it's quite clear what his defence is going to be. From Wikipedia regarding strangulation it states:

"The reported time from application to unconsciousness varies from 7–14 seconds if effectively applied to one minute in other cases, with death occurring minutes after unconsciousness."

RSBM. Yes, but I read that as a short time until unconsciousness, but then sustained strangulation would have to carry on for minutes after that before death occurs. i.e. he would HAVE to notice she's unconscious while he's still strangling her for minutes.

 

[sunnynz]

I

To my ear, the accused speaks with quite a thick Aussie accent (although I do know he is a NZer, as it was earlier reported). He obviously spent a LOT of time over there. Maybe that's where he made all his money?

Yes a very definite Aussie accent.

 

[Pepper77]

I wouldn't be surprised if he worked some jobs, used government assistance to top up and cover accommodation costs and then used credit cards, especially on the final days. I don't think he has THAT much money? Or am I missing something?

Government assistance - or 'benefits' as they're known here in NZ are not easy to get - the first link below from the agency involved explains how they might be able to help, but it is on a case-by-case basis. Bear in mind that we have people here in NZ living in tents (one example is linked below) because they can't get government assistance. And the wait list for subsidised housing is huge.

Extra financial help you may need - Work and Income
Family of seven living in a tent with two severely disabled children pleads for help

 

[legal.beagle]

DBM

 

[legal.beagle]

Government assistance - or 'benefits' as they're known here in NZ are not easy to get - the first link below from the agency involved explains how they might be able to help, but it is on a case-by-case basis. Bear in mind that we have people here in NZ living in tents (one example is linked below) because they can't get government assistance. And the wait list for subsidised housing is huge.

Extra financial help you may need - Work and Income
Family of seven living in a tent with two severely disabled children pleads for help

Yes, sickness benefit/jobseeker etc not easy to get but accommodation supplements through WINZ is relatively easy, apply online and funds get paid to you to top up your costs if your income is below a certain threshold and not making ends meet. The cost of his apartment/accommodation is pretty cheap for Auckland, really. He has a solicitor who offers legal aid which I'm assuming is how he obtained his representative, he doesn't seem to own a car which is abnormal for Auckland, even in the CBD, and most importantly, he seems to be a complete poser trying to make himself look more wealthy than he is. I'm just totally assuming things here and adding a different perspective

 

[Edinlass]

I wouldn't be surprised if he worked some jobs, used government assistance to top up and cover accommodation costs and then used credit cards, especially on the final days. I don't think he has THAT much money? Or am I missing something?

Do you get benefits in NZ for having a low wage and no dependants which in turn would allow him to fund all these tinder dates drinks. And a credit card? I suspect his family have money.

What he hasn’t lost along the way is his adolescent voice, he genuinely sounds like a 10 year old trapped in a mans body.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

He was probably thinking ahead to how he'd explain if police suddenly turned up wanting to question him ... "Oh, they're my mates, *wink wink*"

I'm remembering the report that he Googled, 'breaking news' soon after it happened ... that was definitely a reaction of panic.

I'm a bit frustrated that the funding of his lifestyle hasn't been addressed by the prosecution (and isn't likely to be, given that they're wrapping up today). But the clear reason for that is it's not his financial means that are on trial. It's a shame it isn't covered though, as it further shapes what sort of individual he is. I do imagine a lot of information will come out after the trial is done and dusted and name suppression has been lifted.

I think it'd make for a interesting discussion once the name suppression is lifted and we can delve more into his past and talk freely, there's one aspect I'd like to bring up.

He's managed to scrape by until 26 yrs of age, probably makes a good first impression but doesn't stick around long enough to build up any long term credibility. I wonder if money or items went missing at places he's worked. He's lived in 2 countries, easier to hide a shady past.
Were those last 3 months before Grace's murder, his desperate attempt to make his years of lies appear real, and ultimately led to murder?

 

[Pepper77]

Do you get benefits in NZ for having a low wage and no dependants which in turn would allow him to fund all these tinder dates drinks. And a credit card? I suspect his family have money.

His grandparents loaned him "a couple of hundred of dollars" a few years back but other than that, there's been no mention of his family being wealthy. If my memory serves me correctly his parents broke up when he was young - maybe he reconnected with one or the other later in life and they've been subsidising his expenses

WINZ would not look too fondly on helping someone who has the means to buy drinks and have a credit card, especially nowadays as they've come under a lot of scrutiny in the past. Although, he could have been using a debit card to pay for all of those things. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm imagining they would be more likely to help someone who was prepared to live somewhere far cheaper than where he was living - such as a boarding house on the outskirts of the city - unless there was a very real need for him to live in that exact location. This might sound insensitive - and apologies if it does as that's not my intention - but does he perhaps have an artificial limb (leg)? There's something about his walk that makes me think that. If so, maybe he qualified for some sort of disability grant.

 

[Pepper77]

The media seems very quiet on this today ...

 

[Edinlass]

His grandparents loaned him "a couple of hundred of dollars" a few years back but other than that, there's been no mention of his family being wealthy. If my memory serves me correctly his parents broke up when he was young - maybe he reconnected with one or the other later in life and they've been subsidising his expenses

WINZ would not look too fondly on helping someone who has the means to buy drinks and have a credit card, especially nowadays as they've come under a lot of scrutiny in the past. Although, he could have been using a debit card to pay for all of those things. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm imagining they would be more likely to help someone who was prepared to live somewhere far cheaper than where he was living - such as a boarding house on the outskirts of the city - unless there was a very real need for him to live in that exact location. This might sound insensitive - and apologies if it does as that's not my intention - but does he perhaps have an artificial limb (leg)? There's something about his walk that makes me think that. If so, maybe he qualified for some sort of disability grant.

Oh I never thought of that. Good call, you could be on to something there. Could that be a reason for the name suppression? I was thinking more along the lines of he was related to someone wealthy or something.

Looking at the way he walks - it reminds me of a ‘swagger’. He walks like he’s sure of himself and his ‘body parts’. This sounds weird but I know what I mean. A bit like John Wayne of a horse...

 

[legal.beagle]

DBM - as I don't know if I'm allowed to post this information due to the name suppression

 

[PrimeSuspect]

4:08pm - In her statement, Dr Healy says that during strangulation, the victim's breathing may become raspy, the victims may struggle, and they may become unconscious.
For death to occur, pressure will typically need to occur for a-minute-and-a-half to six minutes.
She says that someone may have a blood nose after pressure is applied to the neck. But it's not something she has seen.
The doctor is only an expert in people who have survived strangulation, not those who have died.

4:17pm - Under cross-examination, Dr Healy says that in a dynamic, moving situation in which strangulation occurs, there isn't a minimum amount of time it would take for death to occur. Each time pressure is released, the "clock" resets.
Dr Healy has now finished giving evidence.

4:22pm - The Crown has closed its case at the Auckland High Court.

The final evidence given was a written set of agreed facts read out by prosecutor Robin McCoubrey.

He says Millane and the accused matched on Tinder on November 30. No one residing in the CityLife hotel rooms adjacent to that in which Millane and the accused were in heard any disturbance. No blood was found in the hired rental vehicle.

4:38pm - Court proceedings have now finished for Thursday.

The next public trial hearing will likely be on Monday.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as second police interview plays, Scott Beard gives evidence

We'll never learn the absolute truth of what happened and the jury may not consider it, but I wonder if he punched Grace in the nose which caused the bleeding.

Next public hearing, Monday.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Oh I never thought of that. Good call, you could be on to something there. Could that be a reason for the name suppression? I was thinking more along the lines of he was related to someone wealthy or something.

Looking at the way he walks - it reminds me of a ‘swagger’. He walks like he’s sure of himself and his ‘body parts’. This sounds weird but I know what I mean. A bit like John Wayne of a horse...

He might be knock kneed?

 

[Mariposa]

I think it'd make for a interesting discussion once the name suppression is lifted and we can delve more into his past and talk freely, there's one aspect I'd like to bring up.

He's managed to scrape by until 26 yrs of age, probably makes a good first impression but doesn't stick around long enough to build up any long term credibility. I wonder if money or items went missing at places he's worked. He's lived in 2 countries, easier to hide a shady past.
Were those last 3 months before Grace's murder, his desperate attempt to make his years of lies appear real, and ultimately led to murder?

I was thinking this too, I hope if convicted there is more info on what he was up to leading up to this.

Was he at some kind of tipping point financially, job-wise, or housing-wise, leading up to the killing? Was the pace of his Tinder dating becoming more compulsive? Or were things pretty much status quo in his life last fall?
I also wonder if he has supporters such as family attending court.

Never have followed a case with this name suppression and kind of information blackout before, with so many unknowns.

 

[Mariposa]

PrimeSuspect, I bet he did punch her in the face for two reasons

1) the amount of blood in the hotel room was significant, and the medical expert said bleeding from the nose of a strangled victim could happen but wouldn’t expect much. I know the defense pushed the idea that the cleanup of a small amount got diluted and made it look like a lot of blood. I don’t buy it, there was a LOT of blood, soaking the carpet, drips and castoff on the fridge and other items. Requiring lots of cleaning supplies and Rug Doctor. Most strangulation murder scenes are not bloody-there was more to it.

2) in his ‘rough sex’ story to detectives he made sure to mention ‘hitting and biting’. He couldn’t have known the state of the recovered body after days in a suitcase in the bush would be such that the medical examiner could not tell if she had suffered, say, a split lip. So in my opinion he mentioned that to cover for those injuries being evident.