GUILTY NH - AH, 14, North Conway, 9 October 2013 - #11

[Fireweed]

i can understand that sentiment. but for those who really truly cared about Abby coming home safely, I dont think it matters. The poor girl missed her freshman year in HS, had a traumatic 9 months and will live with this history forever. im just glad she's back and hope she can be happy. night.

Oh, I am very glad she is back too. In fact, based upon what normally happens when a child is missing for this long, her return is a miracle. But I still maintain it is fair for those who expended their time, energy and money to have a general idea of where she was this whole time. First of all, she may have been somewhere that they searched. If that is the case, then they need to know so that they can change their search procedure. She may have been hiding in someone's attic. What if that person was overlooked? Would that not be an important thing to know?

Again, I understand the sentiment of "leave the poor girl alone", but we live in the real world with real world consequences to something like this happening.

 

[Jade127402]

It's not kept private in any other state. We see this kind of story on the world news too often. If she ran away, abducted whatever it was the truth needs to come out and the public does have a right to know. It is obvious that there is an adult involved somehow just who is the question? But regardless this person that helped or abducted her needs to be held accountable. It could be an adult female as well as a male but whoever it is needs to be brought to justice and it should not be a private matter.

 

[Fireweed]

It's not kept private in any other state. We see this kind of story on the world news too often. If she ran away, abducted whatever it was the truth needs to come out and the public does have a right to know. It is obvious that there is an adult involved somehow just who is the question? But regardless this person that helped or abducted her needs to be held accountable. It could be an adult female as well as a male but whoever it is needs to be brought to justice and it should not be a private matter.

That's the thing: if there was an adult involved (which seems highly likely), then that person is guilty of a crime. Criminal matters are public.

 

[Montjoy]

Abby's a child, though, and I don't think that she owes us anything. It doesn't matter how many times we've posted here. We're not entitled to anything, we don't deserve anything. I'd hope that people would think that they do good deeds because it is the right thing to do, and focus on that rather than how it earns them some sort of explanation after. JMO, but as well, it's a false dilemma to think that pursuing justice against someone who has committed a crime (if one has happened -- it is possible that none has, if, say, she absconded with another minor) is somehow opposed to protecting the privacy of a child. Both can be done at the same time. LE will know what happened, and they will know what to do should they encounter a similar situation down the road.

 

[bessie]

Isn't it obvious that LE doesn't have all of the answers at this time? How can they tell the public what they have yet to find out themselves? Give them time. Give Abby time. Some questions will be answered eventually.

Personally, I don't have to be privy to the details of Abby's disappearance to know the dangers that lurk in the world for teenage girls and young women. If I need a reminder, I simply scroll through the Located Forum and scan the "Found Deceased" threads. Or I read over the Missing but Not Forgotten threads spanning 50+ years. And if that's not enough, there's always Crimes: Spotlight on Children . IMHO, nothing happened to Abby that you won't find in those threads. Knowing won't make anyone's child a bit safer because for every one creep who's arrested, there are one thousand ready to step in.

 

[bessie]

That's the thing: if there was an adult involved (which seems highly likely), then that person is guilty of a crime. Criminal matters are public.

Criminal matters might be public, but the identity of a living child victim is almost always protected.

 

[Fireweed]

Criminal matters might be public, but the identity of a living child victim is almost always protected.

It is only when it is possible to do so, which is not something that can be done in this case. Abigail has had her face plastered on posters all over town. I feel badly for her, but having her privacy protected if this ever comes to a criminal matter is not in the cards. She was "outed" 9 months ago.

BTW, the same thing happened to Elizabeth Smart. Had that man raped her in her home and left, then she would have just be "the victim". There are situations where the child's privacy simply cannot be very well protected. This will be one of those cases.

I understand that people here have nice thoughts about how they wish things would happen, but reality dictates otherwise.

 

[Steelslady]

Abby's a child, though, and I don't think that she owes us anything. It doesn't matter how many times we've posted here. We're not entitled to anything, we don't deserve anything. I'd hope that people would think that they do good deeds because it is the right thing to do, and focus on that rather than how it earns them some sort of explanation after. JMO, but as well, it's a false dilemma to think that pursuing justice against someone who has committed a crime (if one has happened -- it is possible that none has, if, say, she absconded with another minor) is somehow opposed to protecting the privacy of a child. Both can be done at the same time. LE will know what happened, and they will know what to do should they encounter a similar situation down the road.

Yes and No. The reason why I say this is not because everyone is nosey and wants to just know all the details. You have to remember, there are kids in that town (as well as other surrounding towns that go to her high school) who were scared to death, along with their parents, not knowing if she was kidnapped, killed, etc. They have the right to know whether or not some creep had Abby or if she simply took off on her own. I think that's all that the majority of the people want to know, for their children's sake and safety, and peace of mind. I don't think that's asking for too much, and no need for details. Just a simple answer.

Also, Conway/North Conway is a high tourist town, and folks were concerned about having some creep running lose, scaring people away from visiting. Lots of businesses bread and butter comes from the summer and fall seasons up here.

 

[helpful]

My jaw is on the floor.

Welcome home, Abby.

 

[cluciano63]

The thing is,if she is a victim, there may be others no one knows about, who were maybe gone for a few hours or a day and they did not tell anyone. If they are thinking a predator of some kind, the public does have to know. Abigail would be protected later on in a trial, if it came to that. But the situation HAS to be addressed by LE at some point, they made it an LE and even an FBI matter very quickly. Jmo

 

[Fireweed]

I mainly want to know: did Abby go off alone or was she with someone? Where was she this entire time? Who aided her during this time? Was she kept indoors or did she roam freely (I think it is really important in these kinds of cases to find out how easy it is for a missing person to blend).

I think these are all reasonable things to know about this case, and that the public has an interest in knowing. I do not find any of these things to unreasonably invade Abigail's privacy. In fact, where a person has been living is generally not a private matter at all (even for children). Also, people that you associate with is also not a particularly private matter.

I do not think knowing the following is important: what sort of sexual stuff went on. Whether she actually had the opportunity to escape. Whether she knew if people were looking for her. Whether she was or was not pregnant at any time in the past year.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Without breaking confidentiality of WHO and WHERE, I have seen a client Abby's age in a dv shelter with an infant. Client was, through discretion of advocate, allowed to stay and was allowed to remain with parent's knowledge acquired a few days later. 2 things....1] DV shelter stays are 30 days with the addition of 30 days, if needed. 2] If minor wasn't contacting family member then something would have been arranged with advocate/client/social services.

****
Homeless Teens and Young Adults in New Hampshire

Emergency Shelters
Currently there are no emergency shelters in the state designed to provide over
night or short-term stays of a few days to children under 18 years of age who are
living outside a family. The New Hampshire Division for Children, Youth and Families (DCYF), which has responsibility for children without parents or guardians, and homeless service providers in the state typically deal with the lack of shelters by placing unaccompanied youth in foster or group homes or in other temporary
arrangements.

A special challenge among unaccompanied youth is young adolescent mothers.
Because they are under age 18, they cannot stay in family shelters unless they have
a parent or guardian with them, so they are more likely to stay with friends or on
the street. Domestic abuse shelters may take in these young women if violence is
the reason for their homelessness.

http://nhkidscount.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/Homeless Teens and Young Adults in NH.pdf

New Hampshire protocol re: DV shelters/clients. Note pg. 16

There are 14 crisis center programs (Appendix A)throughout the state that provide services
and support to victims of domestic violence, sexual assault, stalking and sexual harassment.
Their services are free and are available to everyone regardless of age,
gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, physical ability or financial status.
Crisis center advocates are specially trained to provide patients with free, nonjudgmental,
emotional support, information, and resources
.

http://doj.nh.gov/criminal/victim-assistance/documents/law-enforcement-protocol.pdf



Go to the nearest hospital emergency room to be examined. The emergency
room in any public hospital must give you emergency medical care, even
if you are an undocumented immigrant or do not have insurance. It is
important to do this as a measure to take care of yourself. Request that
the hospital provide an interpreter or other accommodation, if necessary. Unless you are a minor, medical personnel will not report your case automatically to the police without your permission.

http://www.nhcadsv.org/uploads/legal handbook for women--4-09.pdf

I was watching some show on the ID channel the other day, I think it was Last Seen Alive and a woman was looking for her adult sister. They ended up in Miami and knocked on the door of several homeless shelters. The shelters were not allowed to share any information due to HIPAA laws. Until then I was not aware that a shelter fell under that law but since they provide certain health services I guess it makes sense now.

I found it interesting that they could not tell this woman whether or not her sister was living there. I have a friend who is a nurse and she said people call the hospital all the time asking if their friends or relatives checked into the ER and they tell them yes or no. How is this different or has the hospital been violating HIPAA all the time?

Does anyone know the specifics on these types of things?

If Abby went to a battered women's shelter or a teen parent center or a homeless shelter would they be able to reveal to anyone that she was there or would they be bound by law to keep it confidential?

Here is a hypothetical scenario.

A teen girl is abused at home by her step father. She runs away to a shelter and tells them she is being abused and has nowhere else to go. They take her in. The mother and step father report her missing. She is missing for several months but is terrified of her step father. She tells the people at the shelter that he threatened to kill her and she is afraid for her life.

Would they be obligated to call the police?

 

[Fireweed]

Is a shelter a mandatory reporter?

Even if they weren't, just calling LE from where she was from to say she was safe would not be telling the parents. As a lawyer I cannot see such a massive breakdown happening. First of all, a child who is claiming to be abused cannot simply exist in limbo at a shelter for 9 months. I could see it happening for a few days until a foster family could be arranged, and the matter could be adjudicated one way or another, but everything in my legal training is screaming at me that it would not be legal for a shelter to keep a minor child under the pretext of parental abuse for 9 months with absolutely no action being taken.

 

[ktgirl]

Perhaps Abby was abducted or at first left on her own but was then unable to leave. Perhaps she either escaped or convinced her captors to let her go & returned home. But perhaps she isn't able/willing to tell LE or anyone else who took/kept her because of either:
1) Stockholhm Syndrome http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
2) Or she's terrified that if she implicates someone they will come back for her or kill her family (for example, Elizabeth Smart's abductor would often threaten to kill her family if she didn't cooperate). Maybe Abby negotiated her freedom by convincing her captor to let her go if she promised she wouldn't implicate him and he threatened that if she did, she and her family would be im danger. Perhaps what she saw while in the hands of this captor made her believe he was serious and capable of some bad things.

She is only 14. I could see either of these being possibilities...and could explain why the police seem to need the public's help, etc and are still trying to figure this out.
(this is all hypothetical if she was abducted or held against her will)

I am glad she is home and is safe!

 

[Fireweed]

I was under the impression, purely from reading between the lines of statements from LE and the parents, that everyone was quite sure that Abby was not kidnapped in the traditional sense

 

[Linda7NJ]

My guess she ran off with some adult.
Illegal as she's too young to give consent ...
IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fireweed]

Yeah it seems sad but likely that when a girl that age just takes off, there is a man involved.

 

[tlcya]

I was under the impression, purely from reading between the lines of statements from LE and the parents, that everyone was quite sure that Abby was not kidnapped in the traditional sense

I get that feel as well and it is why I am a bit worried that folks are clamoring for answers so soon. It is my belief that LE may be dealing with a witness who may not being forthcoming with the answers and therefore, investigating will take time. Until LE can find those answers it is not logical to be irritated or imply that anything is not being taken seriously or that things are being swept under rugs or kept from the public.

I do not feel the answers are available yet to LE and therefore to us. I also feel that LE statements suggest they too suspect this young lady was not able to hide out without adult assistance which is why they are trying to figure out how Abby came to be where she was when she returned to be reunited with her family. And why they are asking the public for help in identifying how she came to return where, when and how she did.

 

[Fireweed]

I grew up in a very small town. Whether LE or the family lets anything out, the story of what happened to Abby will come out eventually. That is the way small towns are.

I do not expect any answers or explanations quite yet, at least not officially.

 

[soyesterday]

I haven't read every comment yet, but she DID have a boyfriend that was her age that the time she went missing right? Wasn't his father one of the ones that was posting the FB support page for her?