NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00 #2

[aThousandYearsWide]

The Andrea Stiers article (TR's youngest daughter from his first marriage) mentions her saying her mother wasn't happy about the MC.

"She also remembers her mother was very angry about the child and said she wasn’t really their sister".

This is weird to me being why should this bother her if they were supposedly separated upon her birth? Unless he was having an affair with MC's mother and this played a role in the couples marriage to end.

The timeline is also conflicting now.

Middle child going by estimated age as 2-4 years old places her birth year as 1974-1978 (if she died from 1978-1980) so at the very youngest she would be a year old in 1975 when Andrea visited. Could she actually be older than her estimated ages? Marie was actually younger than her estimated 11 years old.

Was TR's custody of his daughter a parental abduction? Hence the name chance and relocation. If the group was estimated as only being together for a brief time... This would explain her absence at Marlyse's dinner.

IMO if the mother knew about MC she would more lilely be born in CA or AZ where the family was from.

What about Texas? And the tight window of his timeline?

 

[AliceInPain]

It's really hard to make her memories fit with timeline we know. I wonder if her mom and other siblings remember the mid 70's visit to New Hampshire and camping in Bearbrook? Did TPR move between NH and CA more than once?

MOO

TR's son and one of his other daughters (both older than Andrea) have been interviewed on the Bear Brook Podcast. They last saw him in AZ in December of '75 or '76, as has been reported. No mention of Bear Brook. No mention of ever seeing or knowing of his new little daughter. It's pretty clear (imo) this guy left behind more victims than the ones he murdered.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

She remembers meeting her half sister but doesn’t remember her name?!

Also, if the age range is correct then MC was born around ‘75 at the earliest and was too young to be the half sister she remembers in ‘75.

TR took her camping at Bear Brooks’s in mid 70’s?!

Unless the half sister she remembers is the older darker skinned girl in the birthday picture and TR had more than one child with MC's mother.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I also remember something about a babysitter from California seeing TPR with a woman and several children. I'll see if I can find it in the media thread.

ETA: Not finding it in the media thread but see the timeline made by @folieadeuxnola (1984 and 1985 sightings by a babysitter/witness in Anaheim):
NH - NH/CA - Terry Peder Rasmussen, suspected SK, Allenstown, 1981-2000's - #2

I made a post earlier about an ancestry record where Ralph Mcwaters divorced a woman named Donna in Orange County and questioned whether TR used his identity for awhile. I think the divorce was 1980 IIRC. Note the timeline about Donna Walter. Could it have been Mcwaters and not Walter?

1985 – California
• (January – May) – California, Los Alamitos - Curtis Mayo Kimball (DOB 3/18/42-52?).
Employed with an electrical company
• (May 27th)– California, Cypress - Curtis Mayo Kimball (DOB 3/18/42-52?). - Arrested
for DUI and child endangerment; was involved in hit and run of property with Lisa in the car.
According to authorities Kimball was married to a woman known as Donna who works in
Orange Co as a nurse and who may use the name Donna Walter. Investigators also received
information that Lisa may have a 2-3 year old sister. During the arrest Curtis Mayo Kimball
(DOB 3/18/42-52?). called himself a “non-person”.
• Anaheim - In the company of D/L and a 6 month old girl (Witness; babysitter)
Possibly dating a woman had (2) children + D/L 6 Mth = (4) children
• (November 10th) – New Hampshire, Allenstown – Adult female and oldest female
child found estimated death time frame (1980 – 1984).
• (*advertiser censored* – December) – California, Felton – Gordon Curtis Jenson/Jensen - Residing
at Henry Cowell Campground prior to moving to the Holiday Host RV Park.

1986 – California

 

[AliceInPain]

I made a post earlier about an ancestry record where Ralph Mcwaters divorced a woman named Donna in Orange County and questioned whether TR used his identity for awhile. I think the divorce was 1980 IIRC. Note the timeline about Donna Walter. Could it have been Mcwaters and not Walter?

1985 – California
• (January – May) – California, Los Alamitos - Curtis Mayo Kimball (DOB 3/18/42-52?).
Employed with an electrical company
• (May 27th)– California, Cypress - Curtis Mayo Kimball (DOB 3/18/42-52?). - Arrested
for DUI and child endangerment; was involved in hit and run of property with Lisa in the car.
According to authorities Kimball was married to a woman known as Donna who works in
Orange Co as a nurse and who may use the name Donna Walter. Investigators also received
information that Lisa may have a 2-3 year old sister. During the arrest Curtis Mayo Kimball
(DOB 3/18/42-52?). called himself a “non-person”.
• Anaheim - In the company of D/L and a 6 month old girl (Witness; babysitter)
Possibly dating a woman had (2) children + D/L 6 Mth = (4) children
• (November 10th) – New Hampshire, Allenstown – Adult female and oldest female
child found estimated death time frame (1980 – 1984).
• (*advertiser censored* – December) – California, Felton – Gordon Curtis Jenson/Jensen - Residing
at Henry Cowell Campground prior to moving to the Holiday Host RV Park.

1986 – California

Not sure I'm following. Wouldn't it have been a bit risky to start using the identity of the ex of the woman he'd just murdered. This bit is very weird though. Sarah's dad divorces a Donna L. in Orange County, CA around the same time Marlyse and the kids disappear. A few years later TR turns up with a Donna L in Orange County, CA, and around the same time Sarah's dad dies.
It's very confusing in my head.

eta: MSM mentioning the Ancestry post: ‘Missing half sister’: How a search for a relative helped identify N.H.’s Bear Brook victims

 

[Eddie99]

With regards to the article featuring the daughter:

I get the impression that she is suffering from an ailment of some sort. This probably shouldn't have been published. It seems grossly irresponsible.

 

[Suglo]

With regards to the article featuring the daughter:

I get the impression that she is suffering from an ailment of some sort. This probably shouldn't have been published. It seems grossly irresponsible.

You are correct. The eldest sister, who was interviewed previously, says none of this occurred. It’s very unfortunate that it was printed in MSM.

 

[LeenC]

You are correct. The eldest sister, who was interviewed previously, says none of this occurred. It’s very unfortunate that it was printed in MSM.

(Please delete if I’m not allowed to discuss this here)

His oldest daughter responded to a post in the Bear Brook Victims facebook group saying Andrea (her sister) suffers from mental disorders and that she remembers things that never happened. I can’t read the article with Andrea because it’s blocked in my region but the older sister debunks several things in her comment. She specifically states that they absolutely didn’t have a half-sister named Anita Moon and that Andrea never went on a camping trip to NH. The oldest sister was 4 when their mother left Rasmussen while Andrea was only 1. None of them remember much. She also says that their mother would NEVER have allowed one of her children to go with him.
She does remember that he visited once (she thinks it was 1978) and that he had a lady with him, but it’s been so long that she doesn’t even remember what town they were living in at that time.

 

[Gardener1850]

I made a post earlier about an ancestry record where RM divorced a woman named Donna in Orange County and questioned whether TR used his identity for awhile. I think the divorce was 1980 IIRC. Note the timeline about Donna Walter. Could it have been Mcwaters and not Walter?

*RSBM and ex-husband's name changed to initials

JMO, I don't think that TPR would have taken the identity of the ex-husband of a woman he murdered. Donna is a really common name. Also, I think that the Donna who married RM is alive today and likely gave info to LE about when Sarah was last seen with her dad. I think she is referred to in the timeline when it says:

"1978 October SARAH’s father meets and develops a relationship with a new woman. SARAH is not observed and is presumably with MARLYSE. "

https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2019/documents/20190605-allenstown-timeline.pdf

RM is deceased since the 1980's so someone had to have given LE that info about when Sarah's dad starting a new relationship in Oct 1978 and Sarah not being "observed" with her father at that time. I think the most likely person to give that info would be the woman RM met and briefly married (Divorce was in 1980).

MOO.

 

[ClaireNC]

I also remember something about a babysitter from California seeing TPR with a woman and several children. I'll see if I can find it in the media thread.

ETA: Not finding it in the media thread but see the timeline made by @folieadeuxnola (1984 and 1985 sightings by a babysitter/witness in Anaheim):
NH - NH/CA - Terry Peder Rasmussen, suspected SK, Allenstown, 1981-2000's - #2

Gardener, Thanks so much for cross posting bits between the various threads. I agree that we need a SK forum section for Rasmussen and all related cases.

The timelines are giving me a headache. (I’ve been following the cases for years on and off, but missed a lot of the discussion. Need to go back and read all threads from the beginning.)

There are several bits of info in the timeline linked that I haven’t seen before. Does anyone remember the sources for the info on Donna Walter, the babysitter, and this info: “Neighbors later told police that Evans referred to the girl’s mother as Denise Laporte and she died in Texas. He also told one person she had been in a car accident. He told another she had been murdered after she panicked; during a robbery. He claimed to have met Denise LaPorte in Quebec, CA and married her in Roanoke, VA
In 1986 Evans wrote a brief autobiography that authorities later obtained”?

 

[Gardener1850]

Gardener, Thanks so much for cross posting bits between the various threads. I agree that we need a SK forum section for Rasmussen and all related cases.

The timelines are giving me a headache. (I’ve been following the cases for years on and off, but missed a lot of the discussion. Need to go back and read all threads from the beginning.)

There are several bits of info in the timeline linked that I haven’t seen before. Does anyone remember the sources for the info on Donna Walter, the babysitter, and this info: “Neighbors later told police that Evans referred to the girl’s mother as Denise Laporte and she died in Texas. He also told one person she had been in a car accident. He told another she had been murdered after she panicked; during a robbery. He claimed to have met Denise LaPorte in Quebec, CA and married her in Roanoke, VA
In 1986 Evans wrote a brief autobiography that authorities later obtained”?

IIRC the names Donna Walters and Denise Laporte came from an old newspaper advertisement published during the time when Lisa was abandoned by TPR. Social services was trying to find Lisa's mother (before they discovered that TPR was not her father) and put an ad out hoping she would come forward. Those were names that TPR had mentioned to the people he abandoned Lisa to at the trailer park while using the alias name Jensen. We also learned about his autobiography from MSM articles and the DOJ timelines.

It's all in the old threads somewhere. A lot of info came from the DOJ Timeline links released during the pressers. Unfortunately last night when I was looking for the babysitter info I found that the old links for DOJ timelines and DOJ slideshow PDF's have been removed (links are dead and just go to the DOJ page). I guess they only wanted the new timeline they just released to be out there. There was a ton of info in those links. Watching the old Presser videos might help as well. @folieadeuxnola had the most detailed and organized timelines putting it all together in categorical order-- she rocks!

 

[Gardener1850]

I think we should have a separate Terry Peder Rasmussen forum in the Serial Killer's section, similar to the Todd Kohlhepp and Bruce McArthur cases: Serial Killers

We currently have the following threads related to this case:

Allenstown Victims Case threads (2):
NH - NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00
NH - NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00 #2

TPR Media Thread:
Terry Peder Rasmussen: Media, Timelines, Photos *NO-DISCUSSION

TPR SK threads (3):
NH - NH/CA - Robert Evans, suspected SK, Allenstown, 1981-2000's
NH - NH/CA - Terry Peder Rasmussen, suspected SK, Allenstown, 1981-2000's - #2
NH - NH/CA - Terry Peder Rasmussen, suspected SK, Allenstown, 1981-2000's - #3

Victim Threads:
NH - NH - Denise Beaudin, 23, Manchester, 26 Nov 1981

CA - CA - Eunsoon Jun, Murdered by Suspected SK, Richmond, 2002

NH - NH - Denise Daneault, 25, Manchester, 8 June 1980
(Although Denise Denault is not a confirmed victim of TPR she was mentioned in the June Presser as one they still consider a possible victim of him.)

Also, not thought to be a victim of TPR, but solved due to this case and mentioned in the June Presser:
Found Deceased - NH - Elizabeth Lamotte, 16, Manchester, 6 April 1984
Identified! - TN - Greene Co., WhtFem 264UFTN, 14-20, recent loss of pregnancy, Apr'85 - Elizabeth Lamotte

Even if leaving off Elizabeth LaMotte's 2 threads, that is 9 threads where info relating to TPR has been posted. Now that Marlyse and her 2 girls, Sarah and Marie, have been identified but the middle child remains unknown, I could understand adding separate threads for discussing each one. But only if we had a dedicated subforum to keep all the threads organized together. IMOO there are already too many threads in different subforums to keep up with it all. It becomes really hard to find info on threads when you have to switch between so many sub-forums (UID, Identified, Missing 1980s, SK forums, and Solved Cold Case forum) and dig through all those different places just to find something. When I post a new article I try to post it here and the active TPR thread but I don't always remember to post in both places plus the media thread. And I often see MSM posts in one thread but not the other.

MOO.

Many people seem to agree with my post above. Will someone who agrees please message the mods about my post and make the request for a TPR SK subforum? I have suggested this before and alerted on my own posts but never received any feedback on it...

 

[Cubby]

Do we know if the unidentified child's DNA was compared to other Jane does? Is it possible her biological mother was found as a Jane Doe at another location and the two cases haven't yet been identified as related?

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

Another thing we should consider is that Andrea's 'memories' are from when she was only four years old. Considering her parents separated when she was a year old and the last time she saw him was when she was 4 or 5, she possibly doesn't remember her father very well at all. Also we don't know how often he visited his children either. The man she remembers from the camping trip could have been someone her mother was dating or a distant relative, and the park could have actually been in CA for all we know.

The name Anita Moon isn't MC's name, but it's what Andrea named MC.

"Stiers said she and her siblings have named the little girl. “We call her Anita Moon, after my grandma,” she said. “She’s our sister.”
A daughter's anguish: Her father was the Bear Brook killer

Only thing is she includes her siblings in this...

Owutatangledaweb and Gardener1850 thank you for finding the information on the babysitter sighting.

The biggest challenge with TR's MO is he isolates his victims and relocates them states away from family. It seems he also uses the single dad routine to meet women with young children themselves. My theory to why he kept Lisa for so long. It was a survival tactic. If he had a small child with him people are more sympathetic. IMO he was done killing when he let Lisa live. Or killing the previous children was so terrible he didn't want to do it again. I would like to think he had no more victims until Eunsoon. He lived in the same place in CA throughout the 90s. If he killed in this time would he have fled? With Eunsoon I think he was too old to run and just waited it out until he was discovered.

 

[Gardener1850]

Do we know if the unidentified child's DNA was compared to other Jane does? Is it possible her biological mother was found as a Jane Doe at another location and the two cases haven't yet been identified as related?

Yes, some of our members have written and asked NAMUS and have been told that if the Jane Doe has DNA in NAMUS that the Unidentified Daughter's DNA would be auto-compared to her and a familial match would have popped up. I don't know how accurate that is, however, that is what various members here have been told on how NAMUS DNA and computer auto-matching works. For a while we were looking for missing/unidentified women who specifically did NOT have DNA in the system. That is until NAMUS decided to remove the identifiers info from public view-- we can no longer tell if a missing person or a Jane Doe has completed DNA on file. Only LE can see that info.

 

[Alleykins]

Yes, some of our members have written and asked NAMUS and have been told that if the Jane Doe has DNA in NAMUS that the Unidentified Daughter's DNA would be auto-compared to her and a familial match would have popped up. I don't know how accurate that is, however, that is what various members here have been told on how NAMUS DNA and computer auto-matching works. For a while we were looking for missing/unidentified women who specifically did NOT have DNA in the system. That is until NAMUS decided to remove the identifiers info from public view-- we can no longer tell if a missing person or a Jane Doe has completed DNA on file. Only LE can see that info.

I'm one of the ones who NamUs told unidentified remains were compared to other sets of unidentified remains with DNA in CODIS.

I'm skeptical about that now, since the ID of the mother & son (I forgot their names, sorry) Does who were found in separate states a few months apart with the same ethnicity and were only recently ID's and matched as related. I never figured out if they both were in CODIS or if one was and the other wasn't, or if neither were, etc. If someone knows what case that is and knows if they were both in CODIS or not, please feel free to fill in the blanks.

 

[ClaireNC]

IIRC the names Donna Walters and Denise Laporte came from an old newspaper advertisement published during the time when Lisa was abandoned by TPR. Social services was trying to find Lisa's mother (before they discovered that TPR was not her father) and put an ad out hoping she would come forward. Those were names that TPR had mentioned to the people he abandoned Lisa to at the trailer park while using the alias name Jensen. We also learned about his autobiography from MSM articles and the DOJ timelines.

It's all in the old threads somewhere. A lot of info came from the DOJ Timeline links released during the pressers. Unfortunately last night when I was looking for the babysitter info I found that the old links for DOJ timelines and DOJ slideshow PDF's have been removed (links are dead and just go to the DOJ page). I guess they only wanted the new timeline they just released to be out there. There was a ton of info in those links. Watching the old Presser videos might help as well. @folieadeuxnola had the most detailed and organized timelines putting it all together in categorical order-- she rocks!

Thanks Gardener! Now, I vaguely remember the info about those ads from social services. I’m digging through my old computer to see if I have any of the older DOJ timelines saved.

Also I alerted the mods to ask about a separate sub forum. It would be great if others would make the same request.

 

[Alleykins]

Another thing we should consider is that Andrea's 'memories' are from when she was only four years old. Considering her parents separated when she was a year old and the last time she saw him was when she was 4 or 5, she possibly doesn't remember her father very well at all. Also we don't know how often he visited his children either. The man she remembers from the camping trip could have been someone her mother was dating or a distant relative, and the park could have actually been in CA for all we know.

The name Anita Moon isn't MC's name, but it's what Andrea named MC.

"Stiers said she and her siblings have named the little girl. “We call her Anita Moon, after my grandma,” she said. “She’s our sister.”
A daughter's anguish: Her father was the Bear Brook killer

Only thing is she includes her siblings in this...

Owutatangledaweb and Gardener1850 thank you for finding the information on the babysitter sighting.

The biggest challenge with TR's MO is he isolates his victims and relocates them states away from family. It seems he also uses the single dad routine to meet women with young children themselves. My theory to why he kept Lisa for so long. It was a survival tactic. If he had a small child with him people are more sympathetic. IMO he was done killing when he let Lisa live. Or killing the previous children was so terrible he didn't want to do it again. I would like to think he had no more victims until Eunsoon. He lived in the same place in CA throughout the 90s. If he killed in this time would he have fled? With Eunsoon I think he was too old to run and just waited it out until he was discovered.

I theorize he abandoned D/L (as opposed to killing her) because the 1st barrel had recently been discovered and he knew it, and he didn't want to get caught. She was abandoned months after it was found. I don't know how far reaching the story of the first barrel's discovery was in the news media, but I bet he spent a good majority of his freedom looking over his shoulder and keeping an eye out for such discoveries.

 

[ClaireNC]

I'm one of the ones who NamUs told unidentified remains were compared to other sets of unidentified remains with DNA in CODIS.

I'm skeptical about that now, since the ID of the mother & son (I forgot their names, sorry) Does who were found in separate states a few months apart with the same ethnicity and were only recently ID's and matched as related. I never figured out if they both were in CODIS or if one was and the other wasn't, or if neither were, etc. If someone knows what case that is and knows if they were both in CODIS or not, please feel free to fill in the blanks.

I’ve seem a number of cases where the system used by NamUs failed to make matches. I’m also skeptical.

 

[Suglo]

I'm one of the ones who NamUs told unidentified remains were compared to other sets of unidentified remains with DNA in CODIS.

I'm skeptical about that now, since the ID of the mother & son (I forgot their names, sorry) Does who were found in separate states a few months apart with the same ethnicity and were only recently ID's and matched as related. I never figured out if they both were in CODIS or if one was and the other wasn't, or if neither were, etc. If someone knows what case that is and knows if they were both in CODIS or not, please feel free to fill in the blanks.

The son was identified as Robert “Bobby” Whitt. His thread is below:

Identified! - NC - Mebane, biracial Male Skeletal 437UMNC, 10-12, off I-40, Sep'98- Robert "Bobby" Adam Whitt