NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

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aThousandYearsWide said:
One thing I've been thinking about, and I'm not trying to shoot down someone else's ideas or anything of that manner, just have a question and opinion on it. I compare and contrast my opinion to some facts/what if's.

My thought is that the does were primarily Caucasian with some Native American ancestry Now hear me out, I feel like if they came out of a reservation that their native heritage would be more apparent or even more obvious in their skeleton, now I am not discrediting it and not denying that it could happen (Lumbee indians had Cherokee and white ancestry) & (scan to the bottom of my post), but just see it as Namus or the Doe Network would have more likely listed them as Native or Biracial if they had been.

Wikipedia mentions that they have possible native:
This would be consistent with native heritage similar to Lumbee Indian like I mentioned or close relative being native (parent/grandparent).

However Namus lists them as only white:
Adult
5-11 year old
Evan's daughter
Child 1-3 year old

I feel like if they were more native then they would have black/brown or darker hair in general, but all victims are described as having either blonde-dark blonde-light brown hair. They could have had a native parent/grandparent though. My grandmother had Native in her, she had dark hair, eyes, and skin, and she had 3 out of 4 blonde children.

Another thing I noticed in their Namus profiles is the adult had shorter hair, and I always had imagined her with longer hair. Could have been cut or lost through decomp though.

The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children composite of Evan's daughter looks very native or Hispanic, but the other one's don't appear as much.

View attachment 110522

View attachment 110523

Update:
I found some info that suggested they could have been more Caucasian and still could have lived on a reservation.

You don't need to be Native American AT ALL to live on a reservation. My reservation has plenty of non-Natives and another reservation in my state has more nons living on it than enrolled members.


Some reservations do require you to have above a certain percentage to live on one. My aunt looked into it before just in interest and found out our native bloodline wasn't enough. (My grandmother had some native heritage)
Click to expand...

Have friends that are full Houmas and appear Caucasian I would have never know until I found out he was very high up in their community. My hair stylist is part Chitimacha and lives on the reservation .... a beautiful girl however her appearance you would know from the start she is of native descent.

The dental traits in the oldest and middle child are more prominent with Native American's. As far as we know Evans was Danish/Norwegian therefore the middle child would inherit Caucasian genetics from him in which leaves the mother being the higher probability of being Native American. The oldest child could have had a blended Native American father in which I think is possible given the look of the adult I could see her having a blend as well.

Roselvr is reaching out to the Native Reservations in several states and I believe it is a very good idea. Leave no stone unturned ..
 
I must have missed something. Why do some of you believe that BE was Danish or Norwegian?
 
LookingForClues said:
I must have missed something. Why do some of you believe that BE was Danish or Norwegian?
Click to expand...

Handout from the Press Conference

References to Family (from Evans):
1. Born as Ulos Jensen in Wyoming with a Norwegian/Danish background.


http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/01/27/richmond-the-sordid-past-of-drifter-linked-to-six-killings/
In 1986, Evans wrote a brief autobiography that authorities later obtained. It said he was the youngest of six kids, born to Norwegian-American parents who abused him practically from birth, and refused to allow him to attend school. It said he ran away from home at age 14, joined the military, then moved to Canada, where he met Denise LaPorte. It said they married in Virginia, had a daughter, and that Denise died in 1983.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for refreshing my memory. I don’t know why I forgot about that. A senior moment, I guess! LOL
 
I've been brainstorming... I've been wondering if the victims were running from something...

1) Could the Allenstown victims (and possibly Evans) have escaped from a cult? That could be why no one seems to know who they are because in some cults your own family will shun you for leaving, because it disgraces your family.

There is no evidence Evans existed (yet) before 1977, could he have escaped a cult too in that year? Their estimated time of death is from 1977/1978-1985, and I've wondered even if it could have been in the earlier years. Maybe the Carol cable wires found with the victims were bought there before Denise, He was an electrician, it is possible he went there before he met her. I've also wondered if they could have been kept in his basement up until him and Denise leave Manchester.

Scenarios with cult speculation-
  • Allenstown mom escapes cult traveling a distance with children(maybe the oldest is a sister) and Evans "helps" her out
  • Evans finds her elsewhere after they escape and brings her to Allenstown/Manchester (possibly 1980 if she is Elizabeth) maybe his child and her child is the 2 year old and 6 month old, the oldest is a sister that they go back and rescue prior to their deaths? FAR FETCHED I KNOW.
  • Evans also escapes from cult which is why he doesn't seem to exist before 1977, he is able to take one of his children from his possible multiple wife's, maybe Adult victim is his latest wife (husband recently died, father of her children).

My far fetched scenarios aside, my reasons that lead me to this speculation is the adult's age is estimated to be around 23-33 years old, and if she is around the younger ages, assuming the oldest child is her daughter is estimated to be 5-11 years old, then she would have been in her mid teens when she had her. It isn't unusual in some cults for young girls to marry, even as young as 13. Another explanation would be an incest case. Josef Fritzl held his blood-daughter captive for 24 years and in that time she had seven children from him. Which leads to...

2) Could they have been held captive? I often also wondered if this case was the result of a Jaycee Lee Duggard type kidnapping. If Jaycee's captor would have killed her and her children no one would have any idea who they were since Jaycee was 11 or 12 when she went missing and there was no proof her daughters ever existed. Maybe the children's existence wasn't ever documented? The same situation goes for Suzanne Sevakis, except in her case she wasn't reported missing. Are we looking for a missing child who was or wasn't reported missing instead of an adult?

3) Could our doe be a fugitive like Evans? Self explanatory.

4) I hate to put this one out here...what if Adult victim was a runaway forced into sex trafficking. Teen runaway maybe? Another far fetched one, Evans was her pimp. His daughter was another workers child.
 
aThousandYearsWide said:
I've been brainstorming... I've been wondering if the victims were running from something...

1) Could the Allenstown victims (and possibly Evans) have escaped from a cult? That could be why no one seems to know who they are because in some cults your own family will shun you for leaving, because it disgraces your family.

There is no evidence Evans existed (yet) before 1977, could he have escaped a cult too in that year? Their estimated time of death is from 1977/1978-1985, and I've wondered even if it could have been in the earlier years. Maybe the Carol cable wires found with the victims were bought there before Denise, He was an electrician, it is possible he went there before he met her. I've also wondered if they could have been kept in his basement up until him and Denise leave Manchester.

Scenarios with cult speculation-
  • Allenstown mom escapes cult traveling a distance with children(maybe the oldest is a sister) and Evans "helps" her out
  • Evans finds her elsewhere after they escape and brings her to Allenstown/Manchester (possibly 1980 if she is Elizabeth) maybe his child and her child is the 2 year old and 6 month old, the oldest is a sister that they go back and rescue prior to their deaths? FAR FETCHED I KNOW.
  • Evans also escapes from cult which is why he doesn't seem to exist before 1977, he is able to take one of his children from his possible multiple wife's, maybe Adult victim is his latest wife (husband recently died, father of her children).

My far fetched scenarios aside, my reasons that lead me to this speculation is the adult's age is estimated to be around 23-33 years old, and if she is around the younger ages, assuming the oldest child is her daughter is estimated to be 5-11 years old, then she would have been in her mid teens when she had her. It isn't unusual in some cults for young girls to marry, even as young as 13. Another explanation would be an incest case. Josef Fritzl held his blood-daughter captive for 24 years and in that time she had seven children from him. Which leads to...

2) Could they have been held captive? I often also wondered if this case was the result of a Jaycee Lee Duggard type kidnapping. If Jaycee's captor would have killed her and her children no one would have any idea who they were since Jaycee was 11 or 12 when she went missing and there was no proof her daughters ever existed. Maybe the children's existence wasn't ever documented? The same situation goes for Suzanne Sevakis, except in her case she wasn't reported missing. Are we looking for a missing child who was or wasn't reported missing instead of an adult?

3) Could our doe be a fugitive like Evans? Self explanatory.

4) I hate to put this one out here...what if Adult victim was a runaway forced into sex trafficking. Teen runaway maybe? Another far fetched one, Evans was her pimp. His daughter was another workers child.
Click to expand...

I think she was a single mother when she met Bob who had his daughter. I think he may have moved her into his place. I don't think there is any sex trafficking; we're talking NH not NY city. From what I've read of people that ran into Evans they said he was likable until you asked the wrong questions.

I think the only reason no one recognizes them yet is the recons have been way off except Carl's which I asked him to do Thanksgiving 2015. We get it online as much as we can but not everyone has seen it. We need the right person to see it. Look at Cali, Grateful Doe/ Jason; I can name others like Brenda Gerow who wasn't identified till a photo of the Doe went around with her brother seeing it. They knew the photo was taken in NH as her killer was linked to there.

Just waking up but you're using info from before the 2015 presser. The date was narrowed between 80 and 84; the ages were also tightened up. I'm not sure if NamUs changed what they had. Everything was taken from the note

VICTIM 1 - ADULT FEMALE - Unidentified White Female - Estimated age: 23-32 years old, most likely in her mid-20s when killed, but could be as old as 33.
VICTIM 2 - OLDEST AGED GIRL - Estimated age: 9-10 years old. Maternally related to adult and child 3.
VICTIM 3 - MIDDLE AGED GIRL - Estimated age: 3-4 years old. Approximate Height and Weight: 3'8". The middle child was not maternally related to the others, but it's possible she was a half-sister of the other girl(s). It is unknown at this time if they are paternally related.
VICTIM 4 - YOUNGEST AGED GIRL - Estimated age: 2-3 years old. Maternally related to adult and child 1. Investigators tested isotopes in the victims' bones, hair and teeth and determined that the adult, the oldest child and youngest child likely lived in an area close to the Atlantic Coast. They likely lived anywhere in an area stretching from Pennsylvania through Maine, but it's possible they lived in other parts of the country, Agati said. They all spent their last few weeks in the New Hampshire region.
 
Unsure if anyone noticed in Carl's 2015 recon the middle child has much more of a resemblance to Evans.

IMG_0657.JPG


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Roselvr said:
I think she was a single mother when she met Bob who had his daughter. I think he may have moved her into his place. I don't think there is any sex trafficking; we're talking NH not NY city. From what I've read of people that ran into Evans they said he was likable until you asked the wrong questions.

I think the only reason no one recognizes them yet is the recons have been way off except Carl's which I asked him to do Thanksgiving 2015. We get it online as much as we can but not everyone has seen it. We need the right person to see it. Look at Cali, Grateful Doe/ Jason; I can name others like Brenda Gerow who wasn't identified till a photo of the Doe went around with her brother seeing it. They knew the photo was taken in NH as her killer was linked to there.

Just waking up but you're using info from before the 2015 presser. The date was narrowed between 80 and 84; the ages were also tightened up. I'm not sure if NamUs changed what they had. Everything was taken from the note

VICTIM 1 - ADULT FEMALE - Unidentified White Female - Estimated age: 23-32 years old, most likely in her mid-20s when killed, but could be as old as 33.
VICTIM 2 - OLDEST AGED GIRL - Estimated age: 9-10 years old. Maternally related to adult and child 3.
VICTIM 3 - MIDDLE AGED GIRL - Estimated age: 3-4 years old. Approximate Height and Weight: 3'8". The middle child was not maternally related to the others, but it's possible she was a half-sister of the other girl(s). It is unknown at this time if they are paternally related.
VICTIM 4 - YOUNGEST AGED GIRL - Estimated age: 2-3 years old. Maternally related to adult and child 1. Investigators tested isotopes in the victims' bones, hair and teeth and determined that the adult, the oldest child and youngest child likely lived in an area close to the Atlantic Coast. They likely lived anywhere in an area stretching from Pennsylvania through Maine, but it's possible they lived in other parts of the country, Agati said. They all spent their last few weeks in the New Hampshire region.
Click to expand...

Carl's is by far the best I've seen. I realize my scenarios are less likely, these are just things that crossed my mind with the Allenstown victims when I first started getting into the case. When the Jaycee Lee Dugard case came to light I thought of the Allenstown victims. If she and her children were killed in their situation no one would know who they were. But the most likely scenario is that he met her traveling through, at Bear Brook State Park even, and took her in or helped her out.

I used Namus for the demographics, and the Doe Network is also using the same age ranges. Guess they haven't updated yet?

I have wondered about the the narrowed year of death for the victims, Did they give a reason for it? Evans was in NH since 1977, the earliest estimated time of death. Was it narrowed because of when he started dumping materials from the mill or because of the Carol Cable wires found with them?
 
aThousandYearsWide said:
Carl's is by far the best I've seen. I realize my scenarios are less likely, these are just things that crossed my mind with the Allenstown victims when I first started getting into the case. When the Jaycee Lee Dugard case came to light I thought of the Allenstown victims. If she and her children were killed in their situation no one would know who they were. But the most likely scenario is that he met her traveling through, at Bear Brook State Park even, and took her in or helped her out.

I used Namus for the demographics, and the Doe Network is also using the same age ranges. Guess they haven't updated yet?

I have wondered about the the narrowed year of death for the victims, Did they give a reason for it? Evans was in NH since 1977, the earliest estimated time of death. Was it narrowed because of when he started dumping materials from the mill or because of the Carol Cable wires found with them?
Click to expand...

I think the changes in TOD and ages were due to the advanced DNA & isotope testing they performed. That is how I understood it when I watched the 2015 press conf., where they announced the updates in the timeline.
 
Alleykins said:
I think the changes in TOD and ages were due to the advanced DNA & isotope testing they performed. That is how I understood it when I watched the 2015 press conf., where they announced the updates in the timeline.
Click to expand...

agree because they didn't learn of Bob Evans till after the presser

aThousandYearsWide said:
Carl's is by far the best I've seen. I realize my scenarios are less likely, these are just things that crossed my mind with the Allenstown victims when I first started getting into the case. When the Jaycee Lee Dugard case came to light I thought of the Allenstown victims. If she and her children were killed in their situation no one would know who they were. But the most likely scenario is that he met her traveling through, at Bear Brook State Park even, and took her in or helped her out.

I used Namus for the demographics, and the Doe Network is also using the same age ranges. Guess they haven't updated yet?

I have wondered about the the narrowed year of death for the victims, Did they give a reason for it? Evans was in NH since 1977, the earliest estimated time of death. Was it narrowed because of when he started dumping materials from the mill or because of the Carol Cable wires found with them?
Click to expand...

Contacted Lori Bruski before letting her know about the ages and DOD and that NCMEC is wrong too.
 
Roselvr said:
agree because they didn't learn of Bob Evans till after the presser



Contacted Lori Bruski before letting her know about the ages and DOD and that NCMEC is wrong too.
Click to expand...

I'm out so this will be quick; Lori said the ages are correct which according to the presser they're not. We're gonna have to go to the google docs page I think

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw1u4tuUje88VFdUUlVkd2otYTg/view
 
I've been racking my brain on this one, I wonder if Carl can add the Offender to the family picture to show how the entire family looked at the time. Not sure if its proper but might jog someone's memory if they only saw them in group setting
 
Roselvr said:
I'm out so this will be quick; Lori said the ages are correct which according to the presser they're not. We're gonna have to go to the google docs page I think
Click to expand...

I guess I was remembering the ages wrong. The actual ages are in brackets as
Age 23-33 (most likely mid-twenties)
Age 5-11 (closer to 9-10)
Age 2-4 (closer to 3-4)
Age 1-3 (closer to 2-3)

It also does say the adult female is related maternally with the oldest and youngest girls but the specific relationship is undetermined. Their relationship more likely then not a close one as opposed to an extended one more likely mother child than siblings/ cousins
 
Shin Masamura said:
I've been racking my brain on this one, I wonder if Carl can add the Offender to the family picture to show how the entire family looked at the time. Not sure if its proper but might jog someone's memory if they only saw them in group setting
Click to expand...

I've been thinking of that too and one of him with his daughter
 
Roselvr said:
I guess I was remembering the ages wrong. The actual ages are in brackets as
Age 23-33 (most likely mid-twenties)
Age 5-11 (closer to 9-10)
Age 2-4 (closer to 3-4)
Age 1-3 (closer to 2-3)

It also does say the adult female is related maternally with the oldest and youngest girls but the specific relationship is undetermined. Their relationship more likely then not a close one as opposed to an extended one more likely mother child than siblings/ cousins
Click to expand...

I picked up on the bold part after you posted the link. I've lost track of how many times I've looked at it, and only noticed it today,
 
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