GUILTY NH - Camden Hughes, 6, suffocated, Hampton, 14 May 2011 #2

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When I was a kid, my parents managed motels and hotels. To be blunt, you see alot of carp and hard luck cases. Too many of them to help. We did what we could when we could. But there was no way my parents were responsible for calling the police on someone that did not appear to be breaking the law.

Child neglect and abuse are against the law.

Also, as I mentioned before, you don't have to be sure that someone is committing a crime to call local police. You can just ask for advice. A child gravely ill, mother claims she has no money, guests (perhaps) complaining of yelling coming from the room? No harm in asking.

Also, to look at it just from a business point of view, you don't want someone to come to physical harm in your hotel, or as a result of staying there. Reputation of the hotel is important, not to mention legal liability.

This establishment really was apparently a "no-tell" motel.
 
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1339266

How could you pull a 6-year old out of truck and not wake him up? And, though Camden was small in size, she would probably have had difficulty carrying him unassisted.

I am a single Mom to a boy (now almost 13). When he was 6 he was a lot bigger than Camden and there were many times that I carried him from the car into the house when he was sleeping. He *never* woke up.

And to take a motel manager's diagnosis of "I knew something was wrong with him" and interpret it as "gravely ill" - well, I'll have to disagree with that. When Camden was found, they stated that he looked well-nourished and well taken care of....they didn't say "gravely ill".
 
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1339255

Shirley Miller recognized the green blanket that covered Camden Hughes’ dead body in the woods of Maine this week.

“It was his security blanket,” she said, the one he brought with him to sleepovers at “Grandma Shirley’s.” That’s what 6-year-old Camden called Shirley Miller, the mother of Robert Miller, Julianne McCrery’s on-again, off-again boyfriend since before Camden was born.
 
OMG … can we report that page and will FB do anything about it?

Just using Kara's post as a jumping off spot and to say that yes, you can report it and hopefully FB will take the page down.

The page owners are doing this ON PURPOSE to get everyone going and it seems to be working.

If the page does not go away, the best thing to do is ignore it and not grace it with your presence. AND please don't link it here anymore. We don't need that kind of stuff here and there is NO SUBSTANCE to a page where a couple of trolls excite the masses.

In fact, please DON'T DISCUSS THE PAGE FURTHER HERE.

Thanks guys,

Salem
 
If an ordinary person in the street were to respond in a clueless way that might be understandable, but a hotel manager has a professional responsibility to care for and protect the safety of the hotel guests --- including Camden.

I respectfully disagree. Most hotel managers are not trained or qualified to care for or protect anyone's safety. Dial 911 if in immediate danger, sure....more than that not likely.

(No offense to any hotel manager WS'ers)
 
"McCrery and Miller split up three months ago. A month ago, she was fired from her most recent job. She and Camden had both been ill recently, and she didn’t have money to pay a doctor, Miller said."

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1339259

Ok, if this is the case, then why didn't the BF help, especially when he states that we was "the only father the child ever knew" bit? At least take her to apply for Medicaid for the child, even if she felt reluctant to out of shame and/or pride?
 
I am a single Mom to a boy (now almost 13). When he was 6 he was a lot bigger than Camden and there were many times that I carried him from the car into the house when he was sleeping. He *never* woke up.

And to take a motel manager's diagnosis of "I knew something was wrong with him" and interpret it as "gravely ill" - well, I'll have to disagree with that. When Camden was found, they stated that he looked well-nourished and well taken care of....they didn't say "gravely ill".

Agreed.

I just had to come out of lurk mode to comment on the assumption that the motel manager was to somehow KNOW that this child was dying.. In HINDSIGHT he made a connection, but nowhere did he say that he could see that the child was dying and did nothing. I don't think it's fair or realistic to accuse this guy of being neglectful. Many, MANY children fall asleep in the car. Many sleep heavy enough not to wake up when the car stops. My daughter would often awake in the morning in her bed after I'd carried her from the car after a trip, not knowing that we'd even made it home, let alone gotten carried to bed. I'm sure motel managers see sleepy children all the time. It's the nature of working in the travel industry.

I believe that in hindsight the motel manager was able to connect the dots. I don't know anyone who would see a sleepy, pale, child in his sad looking mother's arms, in a motel lobby- a place where I'm sure many sleepy children have been- that would call 911 unless it was completely obvious that he was unresponsive and dying. To blame the manager of being neglectful is unfair in my very humble opinion (which I know we're all entitled to ours- I just wanted to offer a different take on the manager situation).
 
I would suspect she would not have tried other area hotels if that was the case.

What other hotels did she try? Please post link.

It's very hard to assess a child as "unresponsive" if the parent tells you the child is sick and it's a time not totally contradictory to a child that age being asleep.

A six-year old asleep in the afternoon?

But Lyons, whose act of charity has caused him pangs of regret, said it was the sight of the “pale, drab little boy” who made him go back out in the hotel parking lot on the afternoon of May 13

Ask parents what happens in an ER when they bring in a very sick, lethargic child and you are told to take a seat and wait.

Due to limited resources, the parents and child may have to wait to see a doctor; that fact however does not imply that the hospital does not agree that medical attention is necessary. The possibility of having to wait implies that you should seek medical attention immediately rather than delaying.
 
Agreed.

I just had to come out of lurk mode to comment on the assumption that the motel manager was to somehow KNOW that this child was dying.. In HINDSIGHT he made a connection, but nowhere did he say that he could see that the child was dying and did nothing. I don't think it's fair or realistic to accuse this guy of being neglectful. Many, MANY children fall asleep in the car. Many sleep heavy enough not to wake up when the car stops. My daughter would often awake in the morning in her bed after I'd carried her from the car after a trip, not knowing that we'd even made it home, let alone gotten carried to bed. I'm sure motel managers see sleepy children all the time. It's the nature of working in the travel industry.

I believe that in hindsight the motel manager was able to connect the dots. I don't know anyone who would see a sleepy, pale, child in his sad looking mother's arms, in a motel lobby- a place where I'm sure many sleepy children have been- that would call 911 unless it was completely obvious that he was unresponsive and dying. To blame the manager of being neglectful is unfair in my very humble opinion (which I know we're all entitled to ours- I just wanted to offer a different take on the manager situation).

The hotel manager did not say that he saw a normal sleepy child. He said that he knew that something was wrong. If you do call the police, you can simply ask for their advice; they will not automatically arrest anyone and throw them in prison. They might ask the woman if she needed DSS assistance etc. Traveling without money (or credit) is dangerous, and therefore the child was endangered.
 
I appreciate your thoughts and insights into this but it's more than a bit far reaching to implicate the hotel manager. A good deed never goes unpunished.

I agree with you 100%, SarahEcho!

Walker, you are entitled to your own opinion, but I think you are way off-base to say this man was negligent or to insinuate he had involvement in this crime!

You said his actions were not professional. That's true, but not in the way you think. It's likely he broke whatever formal or informal practices the owner has by helping her at all. He did not have authority to give her a room for free. That's why he paid for half out of his own pocket.

He is the night manager at a small motel in a sleepy town on the New Hamsphire Seacoast. From Sept. through May, most rooms are rented to locals who stay for the long off-season. These people are probably working hard to keep their heads above water themselves. This is not the night manager of the Plaza Hotel.

He helped her get a room by paying for half of it. He asked if she needed money for food. He was looking out for them in the morning but the truck was already gone.

The night manager is quoted as saying that maybe he shouldn't have helped her. All that means is that he is feeling that somehow maybe that would have changed the course of events and Camden would still be alive. This man would not even be interviewed on camera because he is too distraught.

I haven't read anywhere that Camden was seriously ill or drugged up. Perhaps he was. But if that was the case, it seems likely that this man would have gone further. I think he was a weary little boy. Driving from Texas to NH will do that! A good night's sleep when we're driving long distances does wonders for my kids.

I posted upthread about how the people who had turned JM down when she asked for help could not have known what she was about to do and that I will think of Camden when deciding to get involved with someone in distress. Well, it turns out, that someone did help her and yet she killed her son.

There is not much else besides a place to stay and the offer of money for food that could have been done for Julianne and Camden that Friday night. He stepped up to the plate and did it.

This man went above and beyond what anyone could have expected of him. I think he is a hero. The goodness of the motel's night manager and the people of South Berwick are the only redeeming aspects of this tragedy!
 
What other hotels did she try? Please post link.



A six-year old asleep in the afternoon?





Due to limited resources, the parents and child may have to wait to see a doctor; that fact however does not imply that the hospital does not agree that medical attention is necessary. The possibility of having to wait implies that you should seek medical attention immediately rather than delaying.

The owner of Summer Wind, along the popular Hampton Beach strip says police asked her if she had seen a woman fitting McCrery’s description. “They said she was going around saying she only had $25 and she was looking for a motel trying to barter.”

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/05/18/person-of-interest-questioned-in-maine-mystery-boy-case/

Yes, children do take naps, Walker, especially when sick and/or traveling.

And although it may not suit whatever agenda you have set, not everyone goes rushing off to the ER if they believe even a bad cold will pass. Most often, we parents are shooed out of a peds office for that "just in case check" that is covered my insurance. Most nurse advice lines or peds on call will tell you to wait it out if the fever is under a certain amount, the cough is not this or that and the child is showing signs of being hydrated etc.
 
I agree. Almost makes it sound as though he is covering up for someone. Maybe Camden's bio father is a good friend? And maybe Camden knew him?

I suspect he may be covering up for himself. I don't think he necessarily did anything, I just don't get the feeling he was a nice guy, particularly with the fact the elder son didn't bother to even mention him in relation to his mother nor his little brother.
 
OK, dumb question but not knowing enough about all this … if someone is in a jail cell and sitting there … how could they committ suicide? How do they know she is suicidal and needing to be watched?

I am trying to remember what the craigslist killer did, cut his wrists, right … how?

Sorry if these are dumb ? but all of you at WS are awesome and will give me the right answers. Thx.

Phillip Markoff, the Craigslist killer, was arrested in April 2009. But he didn't kill himself until August 2010. He tried to commit suicide several time. A few days after his arrest, he had shoelace marks on his neck. So he was put on suicide watch. When his fiancee broke up with him he tried to slit his wrists with a plastic spoon that he'd sharpened on the concrete. In August 2009,on the day he was supposed to have gotten married, he was put on suicide watch again b/c he was stashing medication. One year later, he took a razor blade from a plastic razor, cut both wrists and the femoral artery in his leg, and tied a garbage bag over his head.

Markoff was a driven, intelligent guy. He was narcissistic. JM doesn't seem like she'd have the energy or the drive to go to such extremes. If she did, I would have thought with the driving back and forth between NH and Maine, she would have jumped off the Piscataqua Bridge.
 
I suspect he may be covering up for himself. I don't think he necessarily did anything, I just don't get the feeling he was a nice guy, particularly with the fact the elder son didn't bother to even mention him in relation to his mother nor his little brother.

I'm with you. The quote in the Boston Herald article in your post 328 is that she was fired a month ago. I heard him live on-air on WCVB the afternoon the truck was found saying that he had asked her in her last phone call (when she was actually in New England) if she was coming by his place after work. So I don't think you can get definitive information from him. Reminds of Misty Croslin. You can't get a straight story out of someone who doesn't have the capacity to recall thing in a logical sequence. Given JM's past and their volatile relationship,<modsnip>.
 
I agree with you 100%, SarahEcho!

Walker, you are entitled to your own opinion, but I think you are way off-base to say this man was negligent or to insinuate he had involvement in this crime!

You said his actions were not professional. That's true, but not in the way you think. It's likely he broke whatever formal or informal practices the owner has by helping her at all.

The hotel staff serves the public, and that requires being prepared to help in medical emergencies. Travelers frequently have emergencies. He could have asked the owner if he weren't sure.


He did not have authority to give her a room for free. That's why he paid for half out of his own pocket.

Someone did have such authority. Who did he call?

"A child is desperately ill. We called a taxi to bring him and his mom to the ER, but now the mother can't pay for the room. What should I do?"


Owner Response 1: "Kick 'em both out in the street pronto."

or

Owner Response 2: "Don't worry. We will write it off as charity."

Really, what is more likely?


He is the night manager at a small motel in a sleepy town on the New Hamsphire Seacoast. From Sept. through May, most rooms are rented to locals who stay for the long off-season. These people are probably working hard to keep their heads above water themselves. This is not the night manager of the Plaza Hotel.

All hotels and motels have to be prepared to deal with medical emergencies and unfortunately criminal activity.

He helped her get a room by paying for half of it. He asked if she needed money for food. He was looking out for them in the morning but the truck was already gone.

Helping people is not easy, and just handing people cash is not helping them. Look at what happened. Camden didn't need a free room, he needed a doctor and for someone to ask his mother difficult questions. Camden didn't need for his mother to have cash "for food;" he needed food itself. And, the manager's watchfulness the next day only proves that he felt suspicious of the woman's behavior.

The night manager is quoted as saying that maybe he shouldn't have helped her.

He didn't help her or Camden.

All that means is that he is feeling that somehow maybe that would have changed the course of events and Camden would still be alive. This man would not even be interviewed on camera because he is too distraught.

You can call local police if you suspect a child is in danger. The mother was traveling with no money, and the manager himself thought that maybe they didn't even have food. Camden was an endangered child.

I haven't read anywhere that Camden was seriously ill or drugged up. Perhaps he was. But if that was the case, it seems likely that this man would have gone further. I think he was a weary little boy. Driving from Texas to NH will do that! A good night's sleep when we're driving long distances does wonders for my kids.


Just go back and read the quote.

I posted upthread about how the people who had turned JM down when she asked for help could not have known what she was about to do and that I will think of Camden when deciding to get involved with someone in distress. Well, it turns out, that someone did help her and yet she killed her son.

Handing someone cash is not help. Realizing that the child is endangered and reporting the situation is help. Camden was not helped at all.


There is not much else besides a place to stay and the offer of money for food that could have been done for Julianne and Camden that Friday night. He stepped up to the plate and did it.


He did nothing to help the situation.

Helping people isn't easy. Perhaps he risked feeling embarrassed that maybe the local police would think that he was a busybody. Anyone who has ever traveled knows that not having any money or access to money is dangerous.
The child was endangered in that situation. Obviously.

This man went above and beyond what anyone could have expected of him. I think he is a hero. The goodness of the motel's night manager and the people of South Berwick are the only redeeming aspects of this tragedy!

No, he didn't help at all. He should have insisted on an explanation for the child's condition. Any well-meaning parent would have been more than glad to talk about it. Then, he should have called the local police. They can offer emergency assistance to people who are homeless, without money or food or in need of medical attention.

Even if he only thought the child was tired; the mother told him that she had no money to pay for a room. That alone is a dangerous situation.
 
Walker re post 339. The guy was a manager not the business owner. They don't have the authority to write anything off. What he did do was pay out of his own pocket for half.
 
According to a post on Facebook, Ian would like to have the memorial service live since the community and states all came together on this.
 
I think I'm going to step away from the thread for a while before I get in trouble for spouting off....

Could have, would have, should have.....unfortunately things didn't work out for little Camden. At least we can all agree on that.
 

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