Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #10 *Arrest*

[Jo in Calif]

Just because LN & WN got married in the fall does not mean they could not have been together for years. Does anyone know how long they have been together, and how long have KL and CC known him? LN could have known about the illness for a long time and decided he would be ok to live with her daughters.

We don't know the answer to any of those question's, yet, lips seem to be loosening up to the press.

 

[bstnh1]

Does it really seem feasible, that if the 20 something had something to do with, and I feel LE has a pretty good idea who the guilty party is, that the 13 year old would be allowed to remain in the house?
It is hard for me to believe that if LE thought it was him, they would just sit tight, waiting to make their case rock solid, with the sister in the house, with him and not remove her.

But on what basis would they have her removed? You can't remove a child from a home just on a 'maybe he did it". You need some pretty solid evidence and then it becomes public info.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Just because LN & WN got married in the fall does not mean they could not have been together for years. Does anyone know how long they have been together, and how long have KL and CC known him? LN could have known about the illness for a long time and decided he would be ok to live with her daughters.

I agree. I also think it's unfair to say he didn't love CC just b/c they'd only been married since October. I loved my stepson before DH & I were married, I would have been devastated if something happened to him w/in a week of marriage. Kids are easy to love, they are easy to protect. If WN had nothing to do w/her death, he could have felt horrible guilt in not protecting her and keeping her safe. I lost many a nights sleep worrying about my stepson.

 

[bstnh1]

I think people have said, and papers have reported, all kinds of things that are not necesarily accurate. For example:

Bio-Dad, after initially talking about how great Celina's family was, did a complete one-eighty and began regailing the press with harrowing tales of basement floors and air-matresses. From this some concluded that these poor girls slept in what was essentially a dungeon, complete with spiders and centepedes, dripping rock walls and bare-bulb lights, and terrified girls shivering down their in the pit.

Apparently however, none of this is correct. The kids were not confined to the Count of Monte Crisco's cell, they were not shivering in the darkness with only the skitter of bugs and the drip of water and tears to keep them company. They had a non-dungeon room downstairs, complete with beds and (one might suspect) posters of Justin Beiber and hannah Montana on the walls.

And based on mom's non-reaction to her absense from the couch, I think we can also safely dismiss the "She was terrified to sleep down there" story that went the rounds. Or not. As time goes on we will hopefully learn more.

The problem with conflicting accounts is that you don't know which one, if either, is correct. Yet people seem to think when a conflicting report comes out that it must be right and the previous report was bogus. That's not necessarily correct.

 

[elmomom]

The problem with conflicting accounts is that you don't know which one, if either, is correct. Yet people seem to think when a conflicting report comes out that it must be right and the previous report was bogus. That's not necessarily correct.

When I hear conflicting statements I try and think what motivations the people giving that statements might have in portraying things the way they are. Some of the things that are reported I can't accept, and some I can. Unfortunately, on this forum, it ends up being a little difficult to completely discuss the merits of some of the statements made, particularly the ones made my family members. But in fact, it has seemed from the get-go that we have a very divided family and each side has its own potential motives for portraying things they way they do.
Most times I think the best way to categorize a story in which there are conflicting versions is to think that the truth lies somewhere in between.

 

[Periwinkl3]

nosysw said: <<Oh, Periwinkl3, please tell me how you stay away...Sadly, I really need to know...I am getting next to nothing done and I'm "off' for the summer...You have much more willpower than I do...

Justice for Celina and then this is my last case...really, really it is, lol! >>

Had to find this on the previous thread--nosysw, I'm the obsessive type when it comes to Truth, Justice and the American Way, so I've had to wrestle myself off the computer over a few situations. I have other stuff I HAVE to do, so that provides a little self-discipline. But this case speaks to so many of us, huh? It's just very hard to pull away from such a dreadful story without getting vicarious closure for Celina and those she loved.

 

[Periwinkl3]

I totally believe WN confessed to LN. I also think she thought everything was ok when she left the house.

I agree--or he told her what had happened to her. From what we saw and read, LN seemed to have been in shock immediately. In her place, I'd be screaming in the street from the first moment I had any inkling my kid was missing.

My experience with one schizophrenia sufferer is that he never tells lies. I remember something I heard long ago about people with certain mental illnesses not being equipped to deceive intentionally; express their delusions, yes, but not purposely avoid the truth.

 

[Jo in Calif]

But on what basis would they have her removed? You can't remove a child from a home just on a 'maybe he did it". You need some pretty solid evidence and then it becomes public info.

I don't think, LE thinks that KM did it.
But I think, that if he were the one, that they thought did it, I just feel like they would take some action, for the protection of the daughter.
I don't think Louisa thinks he did any thing, otherwise I could not imagine her moving him in with her in the new apt.

 

[Periwinkl3]

I believe that is what her aunt said - that she was too afraid to sleep down in the basement room w/o her sister and would normally sleep on the couch.

Either way, KM came home and sat on the couch at midnight. That eliminates either WN or CC from being on the couch at that time.

IMO, it has been patently obvious who did this from the get-go.

Maybe they have more than one couch.

 

[elmomom]

So what evidence do we have that rules out an outsider?
I can think of some:
body wrapped in blanket makes it unlikely.
placement of body so close to the home
Celina not the type to leave the house alone
no signs of breaking in
inordinate amount of interest in the family by LE


anything else?

 

[Dr. Know?]

I'm thinking all the evidence is there sadly. I really don't like knowing that KM's truck is released and they are holding WN's only now, that he had an episode on camera, that he was pacing, rubbing his head when the search was going on then falling on the ground, I don't like he said "get your butt home now", his facebook page and friends, his last time on facebook, him losing family as friends on facebook, nor that he was one of the last to see Celina and the first to check on her...that he's not living with or near LN, KL or KM that we know of. He checked into a motel with his sister then checked into the hospital voluntarily...that this AAG reads like a book but actually appreciate that part now! But mental illness is hard to understand to those who haven't witnessed it. I have, doesn't make sense and it's a sad fact many are. Lots to sort out. jmo xoxo

 

[cluciano63]

So some people think WN confessed to Celina's mom and she has kept it from LE? I don't see that...I think she may have her suspicions or was told by LE that they have theirs...

 

[iamnotagolem]

So what evidence do we have that rules out an outsider?
I can think of some:
body wrapped in blanket makes it unlikely.
placement of body so close to the home
Celina not the type to leave the house alone
no signs of breaking in
inordinate amount of interest in the family by LE


anything else?

What if the outsider was related, but didn't live in the home? He still would probably know she slept in the basement. We assume that basement door led to access to her room. The blanket is still unverified. If he was related he could have lured her out somehow, maybe told her he'd take her fishing. Her dad was in the hospital in a coma last time she saw him, maybe he said he had some news from her dad? I'm just trying to think of how someone could get into her, or get her out of the house.

Do we think she was dead before KM got home? Or that she went missing after he got home? How did the perp know when KM was coming home? How'd he avoid getting caught by KM? Did KM see something by the river on his way home?

 

[iamnotagolem]

I'm thinking all the evidence is there sadly. I really don't like knowing that KM's truck is released and they are holding WN's only now, that he had an episode on camera, that he was pacing, rubbing his head when the search was going on then falling on the ground, I don't like he said "get your butt home now", his facebook page and friends, his last time on facebook, him losing family as friends on facebook, nor that he was one of the last to see Celina and the first to check on her...that he's not living with or near LN, KL or KM that we know of. He checked into a motel with his sister then checked into the hospital voluntarily...that this AAG reads like a book but actually appreciate that part now! But mental illness is hard to understand to those who haven't witnessed it. I have, doesn't make sense and it's a sad fact many are. Lots to sort out. jmo xoxo

BBM but none of that is actual evidence. Sure it's odd and weird. But not evidence. There is no video of WN killing her, we don't know of a blood trail, finger prints, his DNA inside her, etc. We need real evidence.

 

[JeannieC]

Interesting...do you know why?

No, I thought they scared him because he would tell people to take them down. I don't mean he would politely say please take that picture down. He would scream take her/him away and point at the picture. (This is according to his sister).

I thought it was because his family had to have him committed sevaral times but she said, she was the one who actually did it and he wasn't mad at her. Also, he did that with pictures that were not family. Paintings with people or animals.


He is paranoid/Schizophrenic

 

[MarthaM]

So what evidence do we have that rules out an outsider?
I can think of some:
body wrapped in blanket makes it unlikely.

Has there been confirmation of that blanket? IIRC, one news source reported that and others picked it up. There have been so many early details that have been contradicted that I'm not accepting that one as fact. For that matter, I had my doubts when it was first reported.

placement of body so close to the home

I don't know that that points one way or another.

Celina not the type to leave the house alone

Well, if she left with somebody she wouldn't be alone.

no signs of breaking in

I'm not sure how much that proves, either. Doors can be unlocked, someone can be let in.

inordinate amount of interest in the family by LE

Do we know that? Of course they were crawling all over the house looking for and taking evidence and did a number of interviews with family members, but until LE says so, that could just be part of an investigation.

I don't have any feelings either way about whether it's a family member or outsider, or even if it's a homicide or not. I'm just looking at those elements to see if they prove anything.

 

[elmomom]

So some people think WN confessed to Celina's mom and she has kept it from LE? I don't see that...I think she may have her suspicions or was told by LE that they have theirs...

Her reaction in the morning has bothered me ever since I read the description given by the neighbor that called 911. And the fact that sometime during the confusion, WN was posting on FB, which is certainly not a typical reaction.
I don't think he confessed. I do think he said something that made her seriously suspect something, and perhaps she denied it, even to herself. But her reaction that morning was unusual in light of everything that was going on - KL going around to find Celina, WN sitting at the computer... and she is so hysterical that she cannot do much of anything to help look, or call 911, or anything. She can't even speak.

Then after her lengthy interview with LE she is again completely distraught. This may be the second time she allowing herself to consider what she suspected. Or, LE has told her what they suspect. Hard to know.

It could have been something she saw - blood stains perhaps- but if that were so, I think we would have heard about it, as in the beginning we were told that there was no evidence of an abduction.

So I am leaning to thinking that something she was told made her believe that CC was not just missing, but that she was deceased. Whether she knew any more detail than that, I don't have a feeling about one way or another.

 

[matou]

No, I thought they scared him because he would tell people to take them down. I don't mean he would politely say please take that picture down. He would scream take her/him away and point at the picture. (This is according to his sister).

I thought it was because his family had to have him committed sevaral times but she said, she was the one who actually did it and he wasn't mad at her. Also, he did that with pictures that were not family. Paintings with people or animals.


He is paranoid/Schizophrenic

Hmmm..Celina is wrapped in a blanket (perp hiding from the victim's face?) and WN flips over the photos of Celina, hiding her face. JMO

 

[JeannieC]

That's fascinating.

WN's actions actually reminded me of the "sitting shiva" practice of covering/turning mirrors while mourning.



Source: http://www.jhom.com/topics/seven/shiva.html


Some cutures/belief systems think the same is true of photographs.

That's interesting and that reminds me, they didn't have mirrors in the house either. I thought that was because they were afraid he would harm himself.
He had tried several times.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I'm not sure how schizophrenia works, but is it possible that WN could have seen something, but reality comes and goes for him? So what if he saw something happen to Celina, but then didn't remember, then something triggered it, he told LCN, forgets again, sees CC's pic he freaks out remembering what he saw?

Again, not sure that it works like that, I have no experience w/it.