Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #11 *Arrest*

[JeannieC]

The longer I think about Celina's case the more I recall from earlier articles and posts:

Ramblings follow:

BBM
Aug 1, 2011 a diver on the team searching Back Pond was directed to go to the Connecticut River near the dam to investigate for a "bag". I believe that info was extracted either from LE scanners or from a news article.


Since a diver was instructed to investigate for a "bag" we might safely assume Celina was indeed wrapped in a blanket or possibly was placed in to a "bag". Celina's mother is on record for stating someone "threw her away like a piece of trash". That gives a "bag" theory some credence.

Respectfully snipped.

Everyone keeps talking about the blanket that either was or was not wrapped around Celina.

I believe it was a sleeping bag that she was put into before going into the river.

jmo

 

[Pensfan]

According to news releases WN left the door unlocked because KM would be coming in later. A partially finished basement does not mean the bedroom down there was not fully furnish. The bedroom most likely occupies only a portion of the basement. The remainder of the basement is the unfinished portion.

It is odd that Wendell would choose the word "somebody" if he was describing Kevin whom he knew very well.

Where I live (in the NE) a partially finished basement means it has a light fixture, a ceiling, and maybe loose flooring with no dry wall or heating ducts/devices.

When a room is finished inside an unfinished basement, the realtor writes: "finished bedroom 10' x 12' located in unfinished basement". The realtor might also write: basement has one unfinished storage area and one finished 10' x 12' bedroom. Then the realtor can count this as a bedroom on the listing's advertisement page.

 

[sreshowtime]

That's one thing that I have not seen mentioned - that LN could be the perp. Many folks have been taking LN's remarks as gospel. Why? Although everyone's eyes are on others as potential suspects, keep in mind that there have been several very believable crying mothers of missing children who later were found to have been responsible for the death of their child. Consider this....do we know that LN actually watched a movie with Celina? Do we know she actually went to bed at 9 pm? Do we know for sure that what she's stated about WN being on the porch drinking is factual information? Just like we do not have enough information to declare anyone guilty in this case, we do not have enough information to definitely state that anyone associated with this case is not guilty.

yeah, being thought...but not mentioned...I admit to wondering

 

[MarthaM]

Respectfully snipped.

Everyone keeps talking about the blanket that either was or was not wrapped around Celina.

I believe it was a sleeping bag that she was put into before going into the river.

jmo

That's a very interesting possibility. If it were a sleeping bag, perhaps that could mean that she left the house on her own to go somewhere else and met with foul play. Wasn't her sister at a slumber party that night? I thought I read that when she was first missing, but I could be mixing my cases. :waitasec:

 

[Turtles]

That's one thing that I have not seen mentioned - that LN could be the perp. Many folks have been taking LN's remarks as gospel. Why? Although everyone's eyes are on others as potential suspects, keep in mind that there have been several very believable crying mothers of missing children who later were found to have been responsible for the death of their child. Consider this....do we know that LN actually watched a movie with Celina? Do we know she actually went to bed at 9 pm? Do we know for sure that what she's stated about WN being on the porch drinking is factual information? Just like we do not have enough information to declare anyone guilty in this case, we do not have enough information to definitely state that anyone associated with this case is not guilty.

I have been having a nagging feeling about LN after reading another thread that mentioned a mother is more likely to wrap their child in something and also put them in water. Praying that Celina's killer/s will be caught and given the most sever punishment possible.

 

[Kiln Wood]

That's a very interesting possibility. If it were a sleeping bag, perhaps that could mean that she left the house on her own to go somewhere else and met with foul play. Wasn't her sister at a slumber party that night? I thought I read that when she was first missing, but I could be mixing my cases. :waitasec:

BBM

MarthaM, I believe I read somewhere in one of the first threads that her sister wasn't spending the night at home because she went to either "a sleepover" or "a slumber party."

Good to see that you've returned to this thread! For awhile there I thought you had lost interest and drifted away; your posts usually inspire me to play devil's advocate.....

 

[Kiln Wood]

It is odd that Wendell would choose the word "somebody" if he was describing Kevin whom he knew very well.

Where I live (in the NE) a partially finished basement means it has a light fixture, a ceiling, and maybe loose flooring with no dry wall or heating ducts/devices.

When a room is finished inside an unfinished basement, the realtor writes: "finished bedroom 10' x 12' located in unfinished basement". The realtor might also write: basement has one unfinished storage area and one finished 10' x 12' bedroom. Then the realtor can count this as a bedroom on the listing's advertisement page.

BBM

Pensfan, in one of the earlier threads there was QUITE a discussion about the girls' sleeping in the basement. If I remember correctly, there was a photo posted that showed that particular bedroom in the basement, and I believe if you were to see that photo for yourself, you would believe the girls' bedroom is finished.

I have both purchased a house and sold my former house in the past 18 months, and I can attest to the fact that many a realtor's listing leaves much to be desired--and thus probably delays a sale.....There for awhile I even considered entering the already overcrowded field of folks listing and selling real estate!

Thank you for all your insightful posts!

 

[gnomony]

That's one thing that I have not seen mentioned - that LN could be the perp. Many folks have been taking LN's remarks as gospel. Why? Although everyone's eyes are on others as potential suspects, keep in mind that there have been several very believable crying mothers of missing children who later were found to have been responsible for the death of their child. Consider this....do we know that LN actually watched a movie with Celina? Do we know she actually went to bed at 9 pm? Do we know for sure that what she's stated about WN being on the porch drinking is factual information? Just like we do not have enough information to declare anyone guilty in this case, we do not have enough information to definitely state that anyone associated with this case is not guilty.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/05/18/person-of-interest-questioned-in-maine-mystery-boy-case/ Yes, Camden Pierce Hughes was found wrapped in a blanket... and his mother arrested. My intuition doesn't lead me to believe that LN killed her daughter, but the evidence isn't much stronger that WN did. I judge that we don't have enough evidence to conclude anything much about who did it -- or why LE is acting as it is. Did it occur to anyone else that WN is not living with LN by his own decision and not hers? That maybe HE suspects something that caused his mental health crisis? I don't think we know.

 

[Chris_Texas]

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111017/NEWS03/710179973

Investigation of Stewartstown girl’s killing remains a top police priority


The article also mentions that WN is no longer staying at the motel he was at when he was interviewed last!! I wonder if people were harassing him, or what?

Obviously the police are NEVER going to say anything but this. Nor is there any reason to suspect that they do not actually feel this way -- I am sure they would love to solve this case. It's the second alternative that bothers me; that failing in solving the case using their current methods, that they would seemingly prefer everyone forget about it.

 

[Chris_Texas]

BBM

I don't recall reading anything that suggests that Celina was or was not found with pajama tops. I also don't recall LN stating that LE would not allow her to view the pajama tops, suggesting that Celina was found wearing pajama tops either. If I missed it some where please point me in the right direction.

I only recall reading that LE would not show LN the blanket and that LN stated something to the fact that she wanted to view the blanket to determined if the blanket came from her house. Perhaps meaning that she doesn't know if the blanket in question is even missing from the house or maybe that LE has told LN not to mention that the blanket is missing from the house if one is. This could all mean that either Celina was found not wearing pajama tops or there is some reason why LE didn't want LN to see the pajama tops and blanket.

One reason for this might be that Celina was stabbed, and there were numerous holes in both the pajama tops and the blanket and this would be key information on how Celina was killed and something that LE would not want anyone to know, including LN. Just because LE or the ME said they could not determine the MOD or COD early on in the investigation, does not mean that they didn't know. Anyone that follows cases all the way through the courts will know that LE never opens up and spills everything they know. It is amazing to learn what LE knew all along or how they caught the suspect in some cases when they eventually go to court.


I think Celina's autopsy reports are sealed so if Celina was stabbed and this is the reason why LE did not want LN to view the pajama tops (if they exist) and the blanket no one will know until the facts come out at trial. Which I hope will be soon.

All JMO

I would like to think that were Celina stabbed this might be something a medical examiner would notice, and the case immediately labeled as a homicide.

Celina's death was only called a homicide investigation recently, which kinda rules this out.

 

[Chris_Texas]

That's one thing that I have not seen mentioned - that LN could be the perp. Many folks have been taking LN's remarks as gospel. Why? Although everyone's eyes are on others as potential suspects, keep in mind that there have been several very believable crying mothers of missing children who later were found to have been responsible for the death of their child. Consider this....do we know that LN actually watched a movie with Celina? Do we know she actually went to bed at 9 pm? Do we know for sure that what she's stated about WN being on the porch drinking is factual information? Just like we do not have enough information to declare anyone guilty in this case, we do not have enough information to definitely state that anyone associated with this case is not guilty.

In the heirarchy of presumed innocence the top tier is always attractive women, followed in close second by weeping mommies. Mom's get a pass on pretty much everything.

If Step-dad (and step-dads are always always always suspect) had done even a fraction of the things LN has done in this case people would be ready to hang him from the nearest tree. There were probably a hundred posts on this forum analysing a two or three second segment of video in which WN is seen picking some wax off his hand during one of the candlelit vigils -- with many seeing this two second period captured on tape as some kind of window into his "guilty soul" or some such. The irony being that they were examining video in which mom, who has no disability, is sitting in a freaking wheelchair -- kinda like a slip-and-fall lawsuit chaser slapping on a neck brace and playing the sympathy card.

If step-dad solicited friends to walk around carrying a sheet as a screen to shield him from public eyes it would have inspired five hundred posts. If step-dad decided to go around wrapped in and hiding under a blanket, or ride in a parade, or was reported to be instantly catatonic with "grief" the second Celina was reported missing, all this would be seen as damning, but with mom it's totally cool.

My point is simple: From her decision making prior to this crime to her behavior since, mom has done nothing to inspire confidence in her innocence or praise for her awesome mothering abilities. And while WN is, and should be, a likely suspect, his reported behavior (even discounting his known psychological problems) is as "normal" of any of them.

 

[JeannieC]

In the heirarchy of presumed innocence the top tier is always attractive women, followed in close second by weeping mommies. Mom's get a pass on pretty much everything.

If Step-dad (and step-dads are always always always suspect) had done even a fraction of the things LN has done in this case people would be ready to hang him from the nearest tree. There were probably a hundred posts on this forum analysing a two or three second segment of video in which WN is seen picking some wax off his hand during one of the candlelit vigils -- with many seeing this two second period captured on tape as some kind of window into his "guilty soul" or some such. The irony being that they were examining video in which mom, who has no disability, is sitting in a freaking wheelchair -- kinda like a slip-and-fall lawsuit chaser slapping on a neck brace and playing the sympathy card.

If step-dad solicited friends to walk around carrying a sheet as a screen to shield him from public eyes it would have inspired five hundred posts. If step-dad decided to go around wrapped in and hiding under a blanket, or ride in a parade, or was reported to be instantly catatonic with "grief" the second Celina was reported missing, all this would be seen as damning, but with mom it's totally cool.

My point is simple: From her decision making prior to this crime to her behavior since, mom has done nothing to inspire confidence in her innocence or praise for her awesome mothering abilities. And while WN is, and should be, a likely suspect, his reported behavior (even discounting his known psychological problems) is as "normal" of any of them.

I agree there have been many strange reactions and odd behavior within the group.

I believe whatever happened to Celina was an accident. Maybe child's play or horsing around. I don't know but it has been covered up. The question in my mind is who would want to cover an accident and why?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

That's one thing that I have not seen mentioned - that LN could be the perp. Many folks have been taking LN's remarks as gospel. Why? Although everyone's eyes are on others as potential suspects, keep in mind that there have been several very believable crying mothers of missing children who later were found to have been responsible for the death of their child. Consider this....do we know that LN actually watched a movie with Celina? Do we know she actually went to bed at 9 pm? Do we know for sure that what she's stated about WN being on the porch drinking is factual information? Just like we do not have enough information to declare anyone guilty in this case, we do not have enough information to definitely state that anyone associated with this case is not guilty.

Quite a few times now I've viewed the Louisa Noyes interview aired Sept 21, 2011 http://www.wmur.com/video/29250275/detail.html ... moo, LN is not the perp.

This news video http://www.wmur.com/video/29276571/detail.html aired Sept 23, 2011, emphasizes the toxicology results.

The contention is something found in Celina's blood stream led the ME to rule homicide.

Alcohol?
Drugs?

Did Celina get into someone's stash and accidently OD .. and that someone did not want to get caught dealing so they removed Celina and their stash from the apartment?

.. or ..

Nothing .. it's a ploy for LE to stress POIs and watch their actions over time?

 

[Pensfan]

In the heirarchy of presumed innocence the top tier is always attractive women, followed in close second by weeping mommies. Mom's get a pass on pretty much everything.

If Step-dad (and step-dads are always always always suspect) had done even a fraction of the things LN has done in this case people would be ready to hang him from the nearest tree. There were probably a hundred posts on this forum analysing a two or three second segment of video in which WN is seen picking some wax off his hand during one of the candlelit vigils -- with many seeing this two second period captured on tape as some kind of window into his "guilty soul" or some such. The irony being that they were examining video in which mom, who has no disability, is sitting in a freaking wheelchair -- kinda like a slip-and-fall lawsuit chaser slapping on a neck brace and playing the sympathy card.

If step-dad solicited friends to walk around carrying a sheet as a screen to shield him from public eyes it would have inspired five hundred posts. If step-dad decided to go around wrapped in and hiding under a blanket, or ride in a parade, or was reported to be instantly catatonic with "grief" the second Celina was reported missing, all this would be seen as damning, but with mom it's totally cool.

My point is simple: From her decision making prior to this crime to her behavior since, mom has done nothing to inspire confidence in her innocence or praise for her awesome mothering abilities. And while WN is, and should be, a likely suspect, his reported behavior (even discounting his known psychological problems) is as "normal" of any of them.

I respectfully disagree with WN "being as normal as any of them". He has a documented history of violence against woman and it is documented that he has a serious psychiatric disorder that comes with a 50% chance of him having a substance addiction.

 

[Pensfan]

BBM

Pensfan, in one of the earlier threads there was QUITE a discussion about the girls' sleeping in the basement. If I remember correctly, there was a photo posted that showed that particular bedroom in the basement, and I believe if you were to see that photo for yourself, you would believe the girls' bedroom is finished.

I have both purchased a house and sold my former house in the past 18 months, and I can attest to the fact that many a realtor's listing leaves much to be desired--and thus probably delays a sale.....There for awhile I even considered entering the already overcrowded field of folks listing and selling real estate!

Thank you for all your insightful posts!

Thanks for the info. I missed the photo of the bedroom. I hope the comment about air mattresses was a mistake and the sisters actually had a real bed with a mattress.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Thanks for the info. I missed the photo of the bedroom. I hope the comment about air mattresses was a mistake and the sisters actually had a real bed with a mattress.

I believe it was Celina's biological father who first mentioned an "air mattress"? I suspect at one time the sisters may have had to sleep on an air mattress while the basement was being remodeled?

I read an article (sorry, not yet located the link) that debunked the "air mattress" story. The article revealed the basement bedroom was "finished" (to some degree) and was furnished with two beds.

LN also commented the basement was a "full cellar that was completely redone", it was "wide open" and "they loved it".

 

[DLT88]

Quite a few times now I've viewed the Louisa Noyes interview aired Sept 21, 2011 http://www.wmur.com/video/29250275/detail.html ... moo, LN is not the perp.

This news video http://www.wmur.com/video/29276571/detail.html aired Sept 23, 2011, emphasizes the toxicology results.

The contention is something found in Celina's blood stream led the ME to rule homicide.

Alcohol?
Drugs?

Did Celina get into someone's stash and accidently OD .. and that someone did not want to get caught dealing so they removed Celina and their stash from the apartment?

.. or ..

Nothing .. it's a ploy for LE to stress POIs and watch their actions over time?

Since they know it's a homicide from the toxicology results, I am thinking that they know that the method of delivery of the toxin had to be done by a second party and not Celina herself. They must have an idea or actually know how. I can't imagine much except being stuck in the shoulder or something with a needle as some things cannot be swallowed and can only be injected.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Since they know it's a homicide from the toxicology results, I am thinking that they know that the method of delivery of the toxin had to be done by a second party and not Celina herself. They must have an idea or actually know how. I can't imagine much except being stuck in the shoulder or something with a needle as some things cannot be swallowed and can only be injected.

I'm pretty sure they knew it was a homicide, long before the tox reports came back, like the minute they found her in the water, before she was even brought up.
I think the "pending tox results," was a stall, buying more time.

 

[DLT88]

I'm pretty sure they knew it was a homicide, long before the tox reports came back, like the minute they found her in the water, before she was even brought up.
I think the "pending tox results," was a stall, buying more time.

I know but I still think the toxin and how it got into her system shows it was forceably done.

 

[WizPro]

KM finally talks.

http://www.wmur.com/news/29533218/detail.html