Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 # 9 *Arrest*

[pgayle]

This is my new theory. If someone is involuntary committed to a mental health facility.. they can only stay there 10 days. If they voluntary committee themselves they can stay there until they are well or indefinitely. Also (I think this is so but not 100 percent sure).. A person who is in mental facility can not be charged with a crime.. they are mentally incapacitated. Maybe why we are not hearing anything..

 

[Pensfan]

This is my new theory. If someone is involuntary committed to a mental health facility.. they can only stay there 10 days. If they voluntary committee themselves they can stay there until they are well or indefinitely. Also (I think this is so but not 100 percent sure).. A person who is in mental facility can not be charged with a crime.. they are mentally incapacitated. Maybe why we are not hearing anything..

New Hampshire laws:
• He‐M305 authorizes short‐termin voluntary emergency treatment for no longer than is necessary to resolve an emergency, but in no case for more than 24 hours in accordance with He‐M 305.04.
• He‐M306 allows for involuntary treatment, up to 45 days of individuals hospitalized on a non‐emergency involuntary admission
http://www.nhbar.org/uploads/pdf/BJ-Spring2011-Vol52-No1-Pg58.pdf

Inpatients at a psych hospital can be charged with crimes.

 

[k4kathy]

Apparently your household operates differently than mine...No child in my house (including my son when he was an older teenager) goes anywhere without telling us- that is non-negotiable...Within the time it would take me to check to ensure that he were not taking the dogs out, not in my fenced in yard, and no one else in the household knew anything about him going anywhere panic would definitely be setting in...more often than not I don't allow my children to go out by themselves- its a buddy system- and if they do they are to call me when they get to where they're going.

Am I overprotective? Yup...Does everyone do this?- no and I'm pretty sure it may not have been that way in their household...But the stepfather's own statement is that she doesn't go anywhere...so why wouldn't he be concerned if she weren't there? Why would he have called mom if he was unconcerned?

I'm not saying I would jump to a stranger abduction...I might think he took the dogs out and something happened- but yes, my panic would be climbing and I don't think I would send someone out looking for him before calling police...maybe a couple phone calls but one would be to the police...

Also, almost twelve is not a teen...it is a pre-teen. She is over a year and a half from starting the teens..

And in my town, at 8:30 on a summer morning, there's not a whole lot of activity going on...kids out playing and such? Not at that time...Some people going to work is about it...those that are off in the summer are not really out doors yet- not saying no one but not a lot of activity.

Nosy, you and I are certainly on the same page when it comes to parenting style. My kids have never been allowed to roam around or go somewhere without checking with us first. It's called teaching our children to be considerate and respectful. Have I put the fear of God into my kid's? Why yes I have... not because I wanted to scare them, but to make them aware of all the evil in this world.
So if one of my kid's was nowhere to be found first thing in the morning, I would panic.
Fromthe time I was 7 yrs old, I watched my mom struggle to cope with the loss of child.She never did get her spirit back.

 

[pgayle]

New Hampshire laws:
• He‐M305 authorizes short‐termin voluntary emergency treatment for no longer than is necessary to resolve an emergency, but in no case for more than 24 hours in accordance with He‐M 305.04.
• He‐M306 allows for involuntary treatment, up to 45 days of individuals hospitalized on a non‐emergency involuntary admission
http://www.nhbar.org/uploads/pdf/BJ-Spring2011-Vol52-No1-Pg58.pdf

Inpatients at a psych hospital can be charged with crimes.

What does He stand for? I understand that NH laws are RSA's..

 

[Pensfan]

What does He stand for? I understand that NH laws are RSA's..

The "H e" is some type of designation for the New Hampshire Code of Administrative Rules. The "h" likely stands for health. Maybe one of the locals will know for certain. I am not a NH resident. It might be Health Mental (He-M).

 

[pgayle]

New Hampshire laws:
• He‐M305 authorizes short‐termin voluntary emergency treatment for no longer than is necessary to resolve an emergency, but in no case for more than 24 hours in accordance with He‐M 305.04.
• He‐M306 allows for involuntary treatment, up to 45 days of individuals hospitalized on a non‐emergency involuntary admission
http://www.nhbar.org/uploads/pdf/BJ-Spring2011-Vol52-No1-Pg58.pdf

Inpatients at a psych hospital can be charged with crimes.

That rule applies to involuntary admissions as far as I can see. WN voluntary submitted himself.

 

[Pensfan]

At one time I joked that at knew all the police officers in my city. Police officers are frequently in the psych hospital ER with individuals that will soon be charged with a crime.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

I will try to go back and find the post, if you still want when I am done with this one, that I posted earlier in the week on incompetency and insanity and the differences and all that, but in a nut shell, no, not necessarily. When you are ruled incompetent and are involuntarily committed, the charges only wait for you if they are serious enough to warrant bringing you back into court. IN this case, it appears that someone may have thought it unnecessary because they were not serious enough or whatever reason they felt that there was no need or sense in going after him. However, NH is the only state in the union that goes by the Durham Rule instead of M'Naghten or A.L.I. In NH cases, a doctor is not necessarily needed and the jury decides if you are insane and if they find that you are insane and that unlawful act was the product of a mental disease or defect, the defendant is not "criminally responsible." So he would have probably gotten off anyway. Theoretically, he could possibly get off for any crime.

ETA: Here is the post, but remember that I posted it before I knew that NH goes by Durham.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 - #3

Found this on: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Plea+of+temporary+insanity

If this true, shouldn't WN have gone to trial?

The insanity defense should not be confused with Incompetency. Persons who are incompetent to stand trial are held in a mental institution until they are considered capable of participating in the proceedings.

The insanity defense also should be kept separate from issues concerning mental retardation. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2002 in Atkins v. Virginia, 536 U.S. 304, 122 S. Ct. 2242, 153 L. Ed. 2d 335 (2002) that the execution of mentally retarded criminals constituted "cruel and unusual punishment" and that it was prohibited by Eighth Amendment. But if a person is acquitted by reason of insanity, execution is not an option.

The insanity defense reflects the generally accepted notion that persons who cannot appreciate the consequences of their actions should not be punished for criminal acts. Most states regulate the defense with statutes, but a few states allow the courts to craft the rules for its proper use. Generally, the defense is available to a criminal defendant if the judge instructs the jury that it may consider whether the defendant was insane when the crime was committed. The judge may issue this instruction if the defendant has produced sufficient evidence at trial to justify the theory. Sufficient evidence invariably includes Expert Testimony by psychologists and psychiatrists.

When invoking insanity as a defense, a defendant is required to notify the prosecution. In some states, sanity is determined by the judge or jury in a separate proceeding following the determination of guilt or innocence at trial. In other states, the defense is either accepted or rejected in the verdict of the judge or jury. Even if evidence of insanity does not win a verdict of not guilty, the sentencing court may consider it as a mitigating factor.

 

[k4kathy]

I think it's strange that the AG's office is not issuing any updates at all int his case. There have been no recent statements indicating that they are interviewing witnesses, gathering more information or anything alone those lines. Granted this AG doesn't usually tell the public every move they make, but occasional status updates are pretty common. It's hard to believe they're just sitting around waiting for tox reports to show up. If they had someone who they felt pretty sure of, I think we would have heard that they were questioning him or her. The complete lack of information at this point is unusual even for this AG. It could be that they are completely stymied and are waiting for the tox report in the hopes that it'll give them a clue of where/who to look at. At this point I doubt very much that they are zeroing in on anyone.

Would you feel better knowing they are just sitting around for toxicology AND DNA results? I'm comfortable believing that LE/AG/FBI will hold tight for a rock solid case.... covering all grounds. FYI- sometimes there are long waits for test results , several reasons for this. Even the independent pathology labs take quite a while to report test results.

 

[Pensfan]

That rule applies to involuntary admissions as far as I can see. WN voluntary submitted himself.

If he was a voluntary admit, he can stay until his doc discharges him.

 

[HeinekenMan]

It's nice to see another reporter on here. I have been a newspaper reporter since 1998. I have a feeling there are more reporters around here who haven't identified themselves as such.

I haven't read all of the press on this case. So I can't speak much about the reporting that has taken place. But the lack of information on the live-in guest suggests to me that he hasn't been available to the press and that the investigators have been tight-lipped about him.

I think reporters have done a poor job of asking questions. Part of that is because lead investigators don't care to talk to the media and haven't been very accessible. Another part is that a lot of media outlets have cut staff and don't have the resources to put a reporter on a big case.

If I was working this case, I'd be pestering the investigators. It's not their job to provide every detail to the media, but it's a reporter's job to try getting information. Obviously, you have to be considerate and polite. But you also have to be persistent.

My guess is that several of the reporters working the Celina Cass case are young and somewhat inexperienced. In those small cities, most of the reporters are probably working at weeklies, which don't pay the kind of salaries that you'd see at a major daily. Those sorts of jobs tend to be for less experienced reporters. They are typically entry-level jobs. That's not always the case. But it's often the case. It's how I started and how most reporters get their start. News reporters tend to move to bigger and fancier publications once they have spent some time developing their skills.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Nosy, you and I are certainly on the same page when it comes to parenting style. My kids have never been allowed to roam around or go somewhere without checking with us first. It's called teaching our children to be considerate and respectful. Have I put the fear of God into my kid's? Why yes I have... not because I wanted to scare them, but to make them aware of all the evil in this world.
So if one of my kid's was nowhere to be found first thing in the morning, I would panic.
Fromthe time I was 7 yrs old, I watched my mom struggle to cope with the loss of child.She never did get her spirit back.

This is not a question of parenting style. I don't believe anyone is questioning that a parent would be justified in feeling concerned and angry if their kid was unexpectedly not at home.

The question: how would you react. You would be scared, but would you be so scared that you were incapable of coherent conversation or other action? So scared that you were incapable of either calling the police OR asking someone else in your family to do so?

 

[pgayle]

Took the following from your link. It was in various newspapers that WN checked himself in to a mental health facility. My granddaughter committed herself and she was in the hospital for 60 days, but that is because she wanted to leave.

Conclusion
The He-M 306 rule delineates a process allowing for involuntary
administration of psychiatric (or medical) treatment to patients
lacking capacity and who refuse treatment that is clinically necessary
in order to alleviate their psychiatric (or medical) symptoms.
The evolution of this rule shows the careful balance sought between
the formation of more clinically relevant definitions of psychiatric
emergency with appropriate time frames for treatment of patients
suffering severe psychiatric symptoms linked to their mental illness.
Incidentally, the number of patients receiving He-M 306 treatment
authorizations is small compared to the total number of
patients admitted to NH Hospital. In 2007, out of a total of 2,123
admissions, only 17 He-M 306 treatment authorization petitions
were submitted, of which 15 were granted. In 2008, out of a total of
2,260 admissions, 15 petitions were submitted and 14 were granted.
In 2009, out of a total of 2,278 admissions, 24 petitions were submitted
and 22 were granted.
Twenty five years have passed since the initial He-M 306 rule
was established. The fourth revision of this rule is the cumulative
work of clinicians, attorneys, administrators and legislators, who
all strive to strike a balance between an individual’s rights and the
need for involuntary treatment. We trust that the balance has been
achieved.
allowing the involuntary treatment of a severely ill population, while
ensuring their civil rights. This comprehensive review of He-M 306
points out parallel processes: The development of increasingly rigorous
administrative and legal oversight (ensuring appropriate due
process rights for the patient); the demand for substantive clinical
information justifying the request for involuntary treatment; and,the formation of more clinically relevant definitions of psychiatric
emergency with appropriate time frames for treatment of patients
suffering severe psychiatric symptoms linked to their mental illness.
Incidentally, the number of patients receiving He-M 306 treatment
authorizations is small compared to the total number of
patients admitted to NH Hospital. In 2007, out of a total of 2,123
admissions, only 17 He-M 306 treatment authorization petitions
were submitted, of which 15 were granted. In 2008, out of a total of
2,260 admissions, 15 petitions were submitted and 14 were granted.
In 2009, out of a total of 2,278 admissions, 24 petitions were submitted
and 22 were granted.
Twenty five years have passed since the initial He-M 306 rule
was established. The fourth revision of this rule is the cumulative
work of clinicians, attorneys, administrators and legislators, who
all strive to strike a balance between an individual’s rights and the
need for involuntary treatment. We trust that the balance has been
achieved.

 

[Pensfan]

Even if a patient is a voluntary admit, if they later want to be discharged and their physician believes that they are incapable of making such a decision or they are dangerous to themselves or others, they can be kept against their will for involuntary treatment with a court order initiated by their physician.

 

[pgayle]

It's nice to see another reporter on here. I have been a newspaper reporter since 1998. I have a feeling there are more reporters around here who haven't identified themselves as such.

I haven't read all of the press on this case. So I can't speak much about the reporting that has taken place. But the lack of information on the live-in guest suggests to me that he hasn't been available to the press and that the investigators have been tight-lipped about him.

I think reporters have done a poor job of asking questions. Part of that is because lead investigators don't care to talk to the media and haven't been very accessible. Another part is that a lot of media outlets have cut staff and don't have the resources to put a reporter on a big case.

If I was working this case, I'd be pestering the investigators. It's not their job to provide every detail to the media, but it's a reporter's job to try getting information. Obviously, you have to be considerate and polite. But you also have to be persistent.

My guess is that several of the reporters working the Celina Cass case are young and somewhat inexperienced. In those small cities, most of the reporters are probably working at weeklies, which don't pay the kind of salaries that you'd see at a major daily. Those sorts of jobs tend to be for less experienced reporters. They are typically entry-level jobs. That's not always the case. But it's often the case. It's how I started and how most reporters get their start. News reporters tend to move to bigger and fancier publications once they have spent some time developing their skills.

I agree with you... reporters can only work with what they are given and the investigator is tight lipped. I am wondering why none of them traced down the ex-girlfriend... to find out the real status of case. Did she drop the charges after so long?

Did she move? How long was he in the hospital?

Everyone keeps saying that they are waiting for the Toxicology and DNA reports.. But DNA comes back fast the majority of the time. Do they have anything on that? Any sign of rape? But I definitely would find out when someone other than the family saw her alive...

 

[k4kathy]

Re; the iphone
My son has an Ipod touch. He uses it for FB but it says he installed the FB for Iphone app, even though he does not have an iphone. I suppose it is possible that someone has an Ipod. Maybe?

Im pretty sure there is a lengthy discussion of this (somewhere) in the Hailey Dunn forum.

For some silly reason, there is more than one FB app for iphone/touch/ipad. One is usually already installed at the time of purchase.

 

[HeinekenMan]

Pensfan is correct. A voluntary commit stays until a doctor discharges him or he chooses to leave. A doctor typically advises against a patient leaving if he feels the patient needs further treatment.

The New Hampshire law mentioned earlier applies to involuntary commits. They can be held only for 24 hours for observation. If that observation indicates they need treatment, they can be held for an additional 45 days.

It is possible to issue an arrest warrant for an individual who is committed to a mental health facility. But LE cannot make the arrest and take the person into custody if an individual is receiving medical treatment. It doesn't matter if the person is in a hospital for mental health treatment or in a hospital for a liver transplant. Until a doctor discharges the patient, the patient must remain at the hospital. Once the warrant is issued, LE reserves the right to keep the patient under constant surveillance. They can make the arrest as soon as the patient is discharged.

A trial can't begin until the arrest is made. It is a part of due process. It is possible for someone to be on trial and also be committed. This would happen if the person was arrested prior to being committed. In those cases, though, the competency hearing can be held at any point. And being committed usually is enough to win a delay in the court proceedings.

Winning an insanity plea does not mean that an individual will not serve a sentence. If you are not guilty by reason of insanity, it is not the same as being not guilty. By pleading insanity, the individual normally falls on the mercy of the court to determine how to handle the individual. In most cases, the person is committed involuntarily, and the typical length of stay is longer than most sentences for a guilty verdict for the same crime.

A judge can consider an individual's mental state at sentencing even if the individual was found sane and found guilty. This is what a lot of criminals hope for.

Laws on some of this stuff vary from state to state.

 

[Pensfan]

Because one of the family members in Celina's house was deemed to be a paranoid schizophrenic by the forensic examiner, you might want to read pgs. 110 and 111 of this dissertation to help understand any unexpected toxicology results if this individual is named a POI.
http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assetserver/controller/item/etd-Schug-2973.pdf

Here is the short summary:

Schizophrenic murders are more likely motivated by anger. When studied it was found that their murders were not motivated by love, sex, or by financial gain.

Victims of non-schizophrenic murderers were more likely to be romantic partners or spouses compared to schizophrenic murderers, whereas schizophrenic murders were more likely to kill family members and relatives. This may be evidence of a lack of emotional closeness with the victim which fostered paranoia and subsequent aggression in the schizophrenic.

The absence of sexual homicides among schizophrenic murderers in the studies examined was consistent with previous research which discusses the rarity of sexual crimes among schizophrenic persons.

 

[Pensfan]

I also have literature about low libido in schizophrenics who are on antipsychotic meds and also in those NOT on medications. If this sad crime moves in this direction, I will drag out the references.

 

[pgayle]

I will try to go back and find the post, if you still want when I am done with this one, that I posted earlier in the week on incompetency and insanity and the differences and all that, but in a nut shell, no, not necessarily. When you are ruled incompetent and are involuntarily committed, the charges only wait for you if they are serious enough to warrant bringing you back into court. IN this case, it appears that someone may have thought it unnecessary because they were not serious enough or whatever reason they felt that there was no need or sense in going after him. However, NH is the only state in the union that goes by the Durham Rule instead of M'Naghten or A.L.I. In NH cases, a doctor is not necessarily needed and the jury decides if you are insane and if they find that you are insane and that unlawful act was the product of a mental disease or defect, the defendant is not "criminally responsible." So he would have probably gotten off anyway. Theoretically, he could possibly get off for any crime.

ETA: Here is the post, but remember that I posted it before I knew that NH goes by Durham.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 - #3

I was referring to WN being incompetent.. which I understand is not mentally insane.. thanks..

I did find this as far as competency:

NH RSA135:17 Competency; Commitment for Evaluation. –
I. (a) When a person is charged or indicted for any offense, or is bound over by any district or superior court to await the action of the grand jury, the district or superior court before which he or she is to be tried, if a plea of insanity is made in court, or said court is notified by either party that there is a question as to the competency or sanity of the person, may make such order for a pre-trial examination of such person by a qualified psychiatrist or psychologist on the staff of any public institution or by a private qualified psychiatrist or psychologist as the circumstances of the case may require, which order may include, though without limitation, examination at the secure psychiatric unit on an out-patient basis, the utilization of local mental health clinics on an in- or out-patient basis, or the examination of such person, should he or she be incarcerated for any reason, at his or her place of detention by qualified psychiatrists or psychologists assigned to a state or local mental health facility.


Such pre-trial examination shall be completed within 45 days in the case of a person being held at a county correctional facility, otherwise 90 days after the date of the order for such examination, unless either party requests an extension of this period. For the purposes of this paragraph and RSA 135:17-a, III, "qualified'' means board-eligible or board-certified in forensic psychiatry or psychology, or demonstrated competence and experience in completing court-ordered forensic criminal evaluations. A licensed out-of-state psychiatrist or psychologist who meets the definition of qualified may also conduct evaluations under this paragraph and RSA 135:17-a, III.



135:17-a Competency Hearing; Commitment for Treatment. –
I. If, after hearing, the district court or superior court determines that the defendant is not competent to stand trial, the court shall order treatment for the restoration of competency unless it determines, by clear and convincing evidence, that there is no reasonable likelihood that the defendant can be restored to competency through appropriate treatment within 12 months. If the court finds, by clear and convincing evidence, that the defendant cannot be restored to competency within 12 months, the case against the defendant shall be dismissed without prejudice and the court shall proceed as provided in paragraph V.