Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 # 9 *Arrest*

[HeinekenMan]

I agree with most of what Chris has said.

They haven't made an arrest. Logic tells us they would do that if they had enough to hold an individual for arraignment. It's possible that they just need more evidence before they can make the arrest. They might hope to get that evidence from lab tests. But it's also possible that they're waiting for this individual to confess and/or fall into some self-incriminating trap.

I do find it noteworthy that they quit looking for evidence, and I haven't read anything indicating that they are still interviewing witnesses.

I think they have established persons of interest. But it's anybody's guess who has been ruled out, if anyone.

One thing that seems clear is that the prosecutors like to dodge media questions. As someone mentioned earlier, it's not that difficult to say, "We have a theory on the cause of death, but we're not ready to disclose that" or "Hey, we think we know what happened, but we need to do further investigation to be sure" or "nothing we've found to this point indicates the cause of death." To just say that COD "is pending" shows that they simply don't want to work with the media.

 

[matou]

There was talk of this on HLN and there must be transcripts of the Judge's ruling of incompetence to stand trial.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

At the time, Judge Richard Hampe ruled Noyes was incompetent to stand trial, writing that the man's mental illness created 'a potentially serious likelihood of danger to himself and others'.
A forensic examiner said Noyes was a paranoid schizophrenic, who most likely developed the condition while he was in the Air Force.

BBM: that was never reported.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-violent-mentally-ill-past.html#ixzz1UdvRN4r9

I saw it, too, when I paused the video. I'm glad I caught your post, before I went to look for it.

You're better at finding stuff than I am!!!
TIA!!!

Ugh! I can't figure out how to upload the screen shot. But I found it. It is here:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-hampshire-girl-search-extends-canada/story?id=14178067

Second video and it says at the bottom:

"...and was informed that the defendant has had the onset of psychotic illness very troubling to the family and has been given medication for it. He informed me that the defendant apparently had discontinued medications prior to incurring the charges. A review of the above noted documents shows a series of bizarre writings which are poorly coherent, legally preoccupied and containing delusional references. In particular there are references to implanted monitoring devices in the defendant's arm."

 

[HeinekenMan]

In NH it does. Insanity is a legal term, not a medical one, but if the defendant is found to be insane, "the defendant is not "criminally responsible if his unlawful act is the product of a mental disease or defect.""

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/more-criminal-topics/insanity-defense/the-durham-rule.html

Not guilty by reason of insanity is not equal to a regular not guilty verdict. If the jury finds you insane, you can't be found guilty and can't receive a criminal sentence. But the judge reserves the right to send you to a mental health facility and can establish how long you must reside there. Most of the time, defendants who are not guilty by reason of insanity serve more time in a facility than those who are found guilty.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Not guilty by reason of insanity is not equal to a regular not guilty verdict. If the jury finds you insane, you can't be found guilty and can't receive a criminal sentence. But the judge reserves the right to send you to a mental health facility and can establish how long you must reside there. Most of the time, defendants who are not guilty by reason of insanity serve more time in a facility than those who are found guilty.

While I totally agree with what you are saying, I would think that time in a mental health facility would be a far cry from time in a prison for killing a little girl. I, personally, would take the mental health facility any day over the prisons that we have here.

 

[Padua]

With all these posts did I miss something? Did the SF get arrested for Celina's murder?

 

[nosysw]

1-800-Patience Grasshopper... (It's an overseas number... you know, Europe or something, a long one.) :giggle:

Or 1-800 - Don't Speak. :innocent:

SBM

:floorlaugh:

BBM

Even though I said last night that it's driving me bonkers, I still find it interesting, for me
& other WSers, to come up with different theories & scenarios... and then seeing the
comments on why it would/wouldn't be feasible.

Sorta like playing a game of Clue.

I know. I know. There are some of you saying, "Well, try getting a life! Do s'thing more constructive."
Believe me, I've tried. I have really tried. I mean it this time: This is the last case in which I get interested!!!!

I feel so much better knowing that I'm not the only one swearing this will be my "last case"...

That's what you're suppose to do here on WS!!!!!:crazy::crazy::crazy:
But really... many of the people here who post scenario after scenario are pretty smart cookies. I like reading other people's views/idea's/opinions...

Thanks are not enough...I don't really see a reason to be on WS other than speculation. You can get updates and the latest info elsewhere (although some swear WS'ers seem to get them first, lol!) This is what we do here!

I do find it noteworthy that they quit looking for evidence, and I haven't read anything indicating that they are still interviewing witnesses.

I think they have established persons of interest. But it's anybody's guess who has been ruled out, if anyone.

.

SBM

I totally agree with these thoughts. Very noteworthy

 

[HeinekenMan]

With all these posts did I miss something? Did the SF get arrested for Celina's murder?

Nope. Nothing has changed in the past few days.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Once an arrest is made, the clock starts ticking.
There is no statute of limitation for murder.
If in fact they have a pretty good idea, who is responsible for Celina's death, it is totally in their favor, not to make an arrest, until they have all the evidence they can possibly get, before they make that arrest.

 

[MarthaM]

I enjoy speculating as much as the next person. I like trying to solve puzzles. But in this case there's next to nothing to go on, which I think leads to too much jumping to conclusions or wild speculation that I'm not really comfortable with. I'm not willing to accept that many (even most) elements and tidbits we've heard are facts at this point, which doesn't help. I like to look at what I know for sure and then see where that leads me, not the other way around, and that's why this case is frustrating for me. There's almost nothing to go on!

 

[bstnh1]

There has NEVER been a successful insanity defense in a murder case in New Hampshire.

 

[Magdalyn]

Didn't we know pretty early he had been drugged. I know it was before 2 or 3 weeks. jmo

It had been about a week if I remember correctly, but we also had a man who showed police exactly where parts of his victim were. And not to be crude, but parts of the victim were refrigerated pretty immediately, so the victim offered up better, fresher evidence for the ME and the labs to work with. I also don't think they had to wait for DNA to finger a perp since the perp pretty much confessed.

ETA: It hasn't taken 2-3 weeks to get labs back on Celina. She was only found last week. The little boy in NY was found in under 48hours IIRC.

 

[nosysw]

It had been about a week if I remember, but we also had a man who showed police exactly where parts of his victim were. And not to be crude, but parts of the victim were refrigerated pretty immediately, so the victim offered up better, fresher evidence for the ME and the labs to work with. I also don't think they had to wait for DNA to finger a perp since the perp pretty much confessed.

I think, IIRC, there were also medication bottles in the apartment so they knew what they were looking for (and already knew who they were looking at)...

 

[Chris_Texas]

Not guilty by reason of insanity is not equal to a regular not guilty verdict. If the jury finds you insane, you can't be found guilty and can't receive a criminal sentence. But the judge reserves the right to send you to a mental health facility and can establish how long you must reside there. Most of the time, defendants who are not guilty by reason of insanity serve more time in a facility than those who are found guilty.

It seems many people have the belief that an insanity ruling means the perpetrator walks, and that the court is basically saying "Oh, well, you're just crazy -- have a nice day, see ya next time!" Nothing could be further from the truth.

What the court is ruling is that the person is so crazy that they are not criminally responsible, that they were (and likely are) incapable of functioning rationally in society. And while it is possible that such a person, after extensive treatment, might be allowed to rejoin society at a later date assuming the doctors and courts agree that he is now sane, this is by no means a guarantee.

Obviously there are exceptions, such as the previous case of the step dad. But even here we have the courts reaching a rational decision. We are talking about a case in which a mentally ill person got violently angry and scared the crap out of his girlfriend. So far as I can tell, despite the violence of the incident she was uninjured. Even if the guy did not try for an insanity plea it was a very minor incident as far as domestic violence goes. He would likely have been sentenced to nothing more than some councilling anyway -- maybe a week in jail if the judge was feeling harsh and there was space. In this case, the guy is essentially pleading no contest and offering to send himself to the nut house on Uncle Sam's dime. Of course the judge and prosecution are gonna go for that -- his Girlfriend probably did as well.

Murder is something else all together.

 

[HeinekenMan]

There has NEVER been a successful insanity defense in a murder case in New Hampshire.

I wondered about this. Do you have a source for this information?

 

[HRCODEPINK]

There has NEVER been a successful insanity defense in a murder case in New Hampshire.

Really??? That's comforting, if so!

 

[LetItBe]

Ugh! I can't figure out how to upload the screen shot. But I found it. It is here:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-hampshire-girl-search-extends-canada/story?id=14178067

Second video and it says at the bottom:

"...and was informed that the defendant has had the onset of psychotic illness very troubling to the family and has been given medication for it. He informed me that the defendant apparently had discontinued medications prior to incurring the charges. A review of the above noted documents shows a series of bizarre writings which are poorly coherent, legally preoccupied and containing delusional references. In particular there are references to implanted monitoring devices in the defendant's arm."

Just trying to help. I captured the screen shot and here is the link.....http://www.kodakgallery.com/gallery/sharing/shareRedirectSwitchBoard.jsp?token=468711596212%3A877181116. You will have to hit "full screen view" button in the bottom right corner. Hope that helps.

 

[HeinekenMan]

Here's a nice Washington Post summary of the insanity plea.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/aron/qa227.htm

 

[MsFacetious]

In Mariha Smith's case they arrested the POI on a probation violation. Not for her murder, but he's there for 45 days.

What motive do they have to charge him with murder when he's already being incarcerated for another crime?

Why not wait on the murder charges, to build their case and hold off on the clock starting?

http://detnews.com/article/20110809...ha-s-death-jailed-on-pot-charge#ixzz1UXMxyq3P

I see this case the same way.

What if they HAVE arrested their POI on a minor charge?

We don't know that they haven't, because we don't know who their POI is.

If their POI is secure wherever he is, there is no need to charge and arrest him right this second.
That starts the clock... they should take advantage of the extra time.

 

[HeinekenMan]

To answer my own request for a source, here is a story that quotes two different legal professionals in New Hampshire. Both say they do not know of a successful insanity defense for a murder case in at least the past 25-30 years.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/911350-196/tough-road-for-insanity-defense-in-nh.html