NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

[Captain_Khan]

Yes. But I don't think any of the alcohol she was known to have on her does - wine coolers, vodka, Kahlua

No, that's true - but maybe the 'alcoholic smell' detected by the police officer on that can/bottle was in fact the licorice that Maura's family claimed she would put in the bottle?

Not sure if it changes anything - I've been pretty certain she was driving under the influence for ages. But with this case, I wouldn't discount anything...

 

[Riot]

I wonder what the dorm parking situation was like at UMass? In other words, could she have left her post for 10 minutes unnoticed?

Getting caught up with this thread and noticed your post. A year or so ago, when getting interested in this case, I did a walking/driving test at UMass to piece together a timeline of the potential for Maura being involved in the Vasi hit-and-run.

Hopefully this is of interest to someone and not completely off-base:

In various places, I've read some put a connection between MM and the Vasi accident, proposing that her crying and needing to leave her security shift early in the early morning of Friday, February 6 was a result of this incident. As it only took a minimal investment of time, I timed myself taking a potential route of MM if this assertion were true. In this picture of Maura's car, linked on the Maura Murray Missing website, the parking decal shows that she was assigned to park in UMass Lot 12. (Today's parking decals look very similar to the one shown from 2003-2004.) A 2005 Parking Map verifies that Lot 12 hasn't moved. I feel that MM would have parked here prior to her shift, so as to avoid having to move the car before morning to avoid ticketing.

Here are my waypoints and travel times:

Walk from Southwest Residential Area to Closest Spot in Lot 12: 8:40.
Walk to where I had parked in Lot 12: 10:15.
(Walked fast, started from across Massachusetts Ave from dorms so as to negate waiting for traffic.)

Drive time back to start point: 2:15

Drive time from Southwest Residential Area to Mattoon Street 2:45
(No more than 10 seconds spent waiting at red lights.)

Now, using the given times, let's do some total travel time calculations, assuming that a person were to leave the dorm and do nothing other than drive to Mattoon Street and return:

Dorm-Mattoon-Dorm (assuming ability to park directly at dorm): 5:30
Dorm-Lot12(closest)-Mattoon-Dorm: 16:25
Dorm-Lot12(random)-Mattoon-Dorm: 18:00
Dorm-Lot12(closest)-Mattoon-Lot12(closest)-Dorm: 27:20
Dorm-Lot12(random)-Mattoon-Lot12(random)-Dorm: 30:30

While this is hardly a definitive analysis of what a timeline that has MM being the driver of that car would look like, I feel safe assuming that MM would have had to be missing from her position somewhere between 20 and 30 minutes, at minimum, if this were the case. Surely someone would have noticed her absence.

Looking back, I think that my "Dorm-Mattoon-Dorm" time is an under-estimate by a minute or two, as I never actually parked at the Southwest complex, nor walked into a dorm. Also, my times necessitate her having the presence of mind to do an immediate 3-point turn, and head back to UMass - no time for freaking out, checking to see if he was okay, etc.

Living in the area today, I can't see much reason for her heading in that direction. I might drive down that street (Triangle St.) to go to Dunkin Donuts (Today, it closes at 10pm; not sure if it was even open in 2004.) or a Cumberland Farms (Gas station, open 24 hours, locally known to have decent coffee, sandwiches, etc. - also no idea if it was open in 2004.).

 

[scoops]

Getting caught up with this thread and noticed your post. A year or so ago, when getting interested in this case, I did a walking/driving test at UMass to piece together a timeline of the potential for Maura being involved in the Vasi hit-and-run.



Looking back, I think that my "Dorm-Mattoon-Dorm" time is an under-estimate by a minute or two, as I never actually parked at the Southwest complex, nor walked into a dorm. Also, my times necessitate her having the presence of mind to do an immediate 3-point turn, and head back to UMass - no time for freaking out, checking to see if he was okay, etc.

Living in the area today, I can't see much reason for her heading in that direction. I might drive down that street (Triangle St.) to go to Dunkin Donuts (Today, it closes at 10pm; not sure if it was even open in 2004.) or a Cumberland Farms (Gas station, open 24 hours, locally known to have decent coffee, sandwiches, etc. - also no idea if it was open in 2004.).

Just don't foget that Maura could've parked (no one has said otherwise) right in front of the dorm she was working at (Melville) as well. There is a parking lot (That I believe is) reserved for security/staff.

If she did park there, it would've taken her 10 seconds to walk to her car from her post.

 

[Riot]

Just don't foget that Maura could've parked (no one has said otherwise) right in front of the dorm she was working at (Melville) as well. There is a parking lot (That I believe is) reserved for security/staff.

If she did park there, it would've taken her 10 seconds to walk to her car from her post.

I've asked around a little bit, but haven't really sought out if she would have been able to park directly in front of the dorm, but in any case, I still think that this is unlikely, because she almost certainly would have had to put her car back in Lot 12 by morning. If she were going to permanently park by the dorm, she would have a sticker for that lot (or, perhaps, a placard to hang by the rear view mirror, but I've never seen mention of this being found in the car). Furthermore, depending which way she would have left Southwest by car, she would have to go through 2 or 3 traffic lights, potentially adding more minutes onto my rough estimate. I only spent about 10 seconds at a red light when I did this. I also measured time from driving by the dorms, even if it takes 10 seconds to walk to a car by that building, figure another 3-4 for getting into the car and starting it, half a second to decide not to let it warm up for a bit on a winter night, another, say, 5 seconds to put the car in gear and pull out onto the street. Taking all of this into account, my "minimum" travel time would hit the 6-10 minute range pretty easily. This also assumes that she hit Vasi while headed away from UMass. The sidewalk (at least today) is on the opposite side of the road from her direction of travel, as is Mattoon St itself. (I don't recall if Vasi was found on Mattoon St. or in the middle of Triangle St. at Mattoon.)

Also, for me, it comes back to there just being no need to go in that direction. A list of food/drink choices that are closer/similar distance, but may have required her to time her break a little differently: Vending machines, various campus dining options in Southwest, other campus dining options (some are open after midnight today, no idea about 2004), Amherst center (today, there is at least one pizza place and one calzone place open late, not to mention bars), other Dunkin Donuts shops and gas stations on University Drive, and a little further out is a main drag of sorts in Hadley with a small mall, Target, Walmart, diners, fast food places, etc.

 

[Jane Birch]

Not sure where I'm going with this - but doesn't liquorice smell like certain alcoholic spirits (eg sambuca)?

Black licorice does, yes, but I believe this was a red licorice, like a Twizzler or whatever. And don't ask me what those smell like, it's never really occurred to me to smell one.......

 

[ReecieV]

Just saw this case on the ID channel. Really feel for her family and friends.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[OldSteve]

Just saw this case on the ID channel. Really feel for her family and friends.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Glad to have a new viewer here :welcome: What are your thoughts about this case?

Seems the tide has shifted over the years from her disappearance being the result of (1) foul play to an increase in it being by suicide.

I think we do her a bit of a disservice thinking she was on a mission to end it all. Since none of us know, I think we should give her the benefit of doubt and figure she had no intention of ending her life.
I reflect back to when I was young and in school (1963) and took off after being fed up with school, family, and having had mono... Had something bad happened to me then, it would have so easy to draw a conclusion of my wanting to end it all - when nothing could be further from the truth. At my age then, suicide never crossed my mind. I just wanted to get away and be out from under pressure!

So looking at MM's case this way, I see her leaving her car like she did as keeping it as her "base camp" - she left her possessions in it because she was going to go back to it. She took just the booze with her so she could come back and claim she was using it to keep warm while trying to find help - if questioned.

Also, she probably had no idea how cold it was going to get that night, so I don't think she planned on staying out in the cold, and the more I think about it, the more I believe she planned on coming back to her care that night.

As for the SBD (school bus driver) - when he first approached her in her car, she could not have him call for help for fear LE would see she was in the car - she would have been charged DUI... but once she left her car and if she came back with help, would the booze matter?

 

[trenchmouth]

I've thought suicide was the most likely reason why she is missing which I've explained in a previous post. Some will say no way as her body hasn't been found and dogs only tracked her scent a short distance from her car. I think RF indeed saw her miles from her car and she probably comitted suicide somewhere outside of the search area in a remote area after he saw her.

If she didn't commit suicide and ran away, where was she going and how did she get to where she was going? If a stranger gave her ride somewhere I would think that person would have come forward by now to say they gave her a ride, unless of course she ran off with someone she knew who picked her up. However there is no evidence to support that. If she ran away I would think someone would have recognized her or she would have made contact.

The last possibility is she was abducted during her walk away from the car. But again, where was she going? The odds of getting abducted within 100 yards of her car within the timeframe BA saw her and the police arrived is infinitesimal. The odds of getting abducted might increase however the longer she walked and more cars passed her.

Why would she leave her car? Was her vehicle undrivable after the accident?





Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

 

[deca]

Remember that another possibility is that she either started walking towards town (or whatever- maybe she just went for a pee in the woods) became disoriented, injured or lost and succumbed to hypothermia.

And for those that say "But they haven't found her body!" There are at least a few cases that I have read- one local to here- where the person's remains were found less than a mile from where they had disappeared from...and they weren't found for YEARS. This poor girl from here- her body wasnt buried or anything- it was just in tall grass not far from a road.

 

[JamesRenner]

I think we can rule that out, actually. The area around the crash was scoured several times by both family and police. She didn't walk in the woods. At least not there.

 

[BillNH]

Just happened to see this, interesting. Went missing a year ago, beginning of second year nursing program, told friends of a family emergency and took off.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/06/jessie-ronhock-missing_n_1258122.html

 

[scoops]

Just happened to see this, interesting. Went missing a year ago, beginning of second year nursing program, told friends of a family emergency and took off.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/06/jessie-ronhock-missing_n_1258122.html

This person drove their car off a cliff in Arizona and was found dead.

 

[BillNH]

This person drove their car off a cliff in Arizona and was found dead.

True, but many similarities to Maura's actions up to the point they found her car and body. Car was found by elk hunters months later.

 

[Aleph]

Nursing school is stressful (or so I hear).

 

[scoops]

True, but many similarities to Maura's actions up to the point they found her car and body. Car was found by elk hunters months later.

Oh, I agree 100 percent with you.

She was also discovered making an atm transaction alone.

Even with everything out, what do you bet there will still be people out there claiming this girl was traveling in tandem with someone or was met with foul play by a mystery killer.



But truthfully, they have (to my knowledge) never made a true conclusion on this girl's fate. I believe her death was ruled accidental even though she slammed through a guard rail and over a cliff (if i read it right) and she also sent her personal diary (vie mail) back to her family before she plunged off a cliff.

 

[KenShabby]

One might wonder if perhaps Jessie Rothock might have watched a certain episode of the Disappeared television program, and seen something that stuck a chord with her.

 

[Lolacat]

This isn't really related to anything in this thread, but I wish we had more info about the weeks/months leading up to Maura's disappearance. Much is talked about the 5 days just prior to her going missing but there seems very little info about the weeks before that. *IF* she was suicidal OR planning to run away, both of those options would have taken time for the pressure to build up to breaking point (and therefore, would have involved potential signs) - they arent just things you do on a spur of the moment whim.
I would like to know where Maura spent that Christmas/New year, what was her mood like? Did she talk about her hopes for the new year with her friends? Was she sad? was she drinking much more than usual? etc etc.

 

[OldSteve]

This isn't really related to anything in this thread, but I wish we had more info about the weeks/months leading up to Maura's disappearance. Much is talked about the 5 days just prior to her going missing but there seems very little info about the weeks before that. *IF* she was suicidal OR planning to run away, both of those options would have taken time for the pressure to build up to breaking point (and therefore, would have involved potential signs) - they arent just things you do on a spur of the moment whim.
I would like to know where Maura spent that Christmas/New year, what was her mood like? Did she talk about her hopes for the new year with her friends? Was she sad? was she drinking much more than usual? etc etc.

All good questions and I think the same thing in so many cases I follow - if only there was more info from the people who know and have been friends with the person......
Even little details can be so important - for example in this case:
Was it typical for MM not to unpack when she came back to school, or was this time something unusual?
What plans did she have with her BF for the future... was there trouble and/or talk of other interests?
Did MM run/jog at night, and did she do it over regular roads, and if so did she need to use a light of some kind?
Did she ever mention suicide to anyone?
Did anyone ever ride in her car and can say just how poor it ran.

 

[Lolacat]

All good questions and I think the same thing in so many cases I follow - if only there was more info from the people who know and have been friends with the person......
Even little details can be so important - for example in this case:
Was it typical for MM not to unpack when she came back to school, or was this time something unusual?
What plans did she have with her BF for the future... was there trouble and/or talk of other interests?
Did MM run/jog at night, and did she do it over regular roads, and if so did she need to use a light of some kind?
Did she ever mention suicide to anyone?
Did anyone ever ride in her car and can say just how poor it ran.

Yes! exactly. Although, one thing Ive noticed about the Disappeared programme is how good people are at keeping secrets. It seems like quite often a relative will say "this is TOTALLY out of character for them" or, "They would never do XYZ" and then it turns out that actually they have done that very thing. It makes you realise that you never know whats really going on inside a person's head. This seems particularly true for Maura- e.g., "Maura was not a liar- but she did lie" etc...

 

[scoops]

This isn't really related to anything in this thread, but I wish we had more info about the weeks/months leading up to Maura's disappearance. Much is talked about the 5 days just prior to her going missing but there seems very little info about the weeks before that. *IF* she was suicidal OR planning to run away, both of those options would have taken time for the pressure to build up to breaking point (and therefore, would have involved potential signs) - they arent just things you do on a spur of the moment whim.
I would like to know where Maura spent that Christmas/New year, what was her mood like? Did she talk about her hopes for the new year with her friends? Was she sad? was she drinking much more than usual? etc etc.

I think it all started that Thursday night she was working.

Just the way the supervisor described her (I don't believe the supervisor was being over dramatic), something of a traumatic nature happened to Maura and no that doesn't necessarily mean a phone call triggered it.

Whatever it was, she went on a rapid down-hill spiral from that point on.

Her father (IMO) really knows a whole lot more as to the condition of his daughter that weekend he whisked into town to be with her.

I think he did his best to try and calm her down and maybe when he left, felt like she was in better shape. But obviously that wasn't the case. That is what I think his biggest regret is. Leaving her after being convinced she would work through whatever problem she was facing.