NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

[Pettibon Junction]

But random passing predator driving by happens - Larry Singleton, the Vampire Rapist, Ivan Milat, the Santa Rosa hitchhiker murders, etc.

I don't think Occam's razor applies and with the information we have now we can't rule out random stranger no matter how uncommon it is.

And Gerald Stano. His biography was literally titled 'I Would Find a Girl Walking!'

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

So, just as Murray crashes her car, there just happens to be a killer driving by? Really? It was a freezing cold night, lot's of snow, she was probably drunk, and just had a pretty bad accident. I think she just walked into the woods and died there.

 

[LucyOso]

So, just as Murray crashes her car, there just happens to be a killer driving by? Really? It was a freezing cold night, lot's of snow, she was probably drunk, and just had a pretty bad accident. I think she just walked into the woods and died there.

I have to agree on this. She could have gotten a ride somewhere initially. But, my thought is she maybe had a concussion, hypothermia, and with a little alcohol intake could have easily wandered into a wooded area and froze. I am not sure if there are bodies of water nearby, but if she reached that stage of hypothermia where paradoxical undressing occurs she could have easily gone into water seeking relief.

 

[bluesneakers]

And Gerald Stano. His biography was literally titled 'I Would Find a Girl Walking!'

It's conceivable she got in a stranger's car to get away from the police. Like just a ride as far as it would take to get cell service where she could call her dad.

 

[bluesneakers]

So, just as Murray crashes her car, there just happens to be a killer driving by? Really? It was a freezing cold night, lot's of snow, she was probably drunk, and just had a pretty bad accident. I think she just walked into the woods and died there.

There are lots of examples of this very thing happening, probably happens more often than we realize. Absolutely it's possible.

 

[Skigirl]

There are lots of examples of this very thing happening, probably happens more often than we realize. Absolutely it's possible.

Yeah, the criminologists that were interviewed on the podcast thought it was entirely plausible that she was picked up by a predator. They said that abduction is a crime of opportunity and so while you wouldn't expect someone to go cruising that stretch to look for a victim, someone in her situation would be an attractive target if he just happened by. Disappearances are rare events, but I think if you looked among the ones involving stranger abductions, you would notice that the victims are pretty often taken in places where a predator would have to wait a very long time for someone to come by, because predators are always alert for the right set of circumstances, and their encounters often are by chance.


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[Caffeine]

There are lots of examples of this very thing happening, probably happens more often than we realize. Absolutely it's possible.

Agreed. There was plenty of time and opportunity for this. Butch Atwood himself even mentioned several cars passed at the time he went inside and called police. That was minutes after the accident. Had she walked up the road that would have undoubtedly meant even more cars that would pass her.

I can accept that there is a chance she may have ventured into the woods and died there. That will always be a possibility, too. However, if her judgement was clouded enough to potentially run off unprepared in the cold, dark woods...I'd think she would be capable of other questionable decisions, like taking a ride from a stranger.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

It's conceivable she got in a stranger's car to get away from the police. Like just a ride as far as it would take to get cell service where she could call her dad.

Especially if the suspect was someone young, clean-cut, conventionally attractive, and driving a company vehicle. One person of interest matches this description. If the wood chip/carpet sample evidence rules out Claude Moulton, then this is the next guy who should be considered.


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[mstrbill]

I had thought so as well, she wandered into the woods, until I learned how extensively the surrounding area was searched. Search dogs lost her scent in the middle of the road. She was picked up by someone on the road.

 

[Moreack]

I wish we knew what Renner found. Why he decided to stop searching... I've always thought that Maura ran off and hid in the woods and died accidentally. I can't imagine that she is alive somewhere. I can imagine that she was picked up by someone while she was running away. Poor Maura. JMO

 

[Skigirl]

I wish we knew what Renner found. Why he decided to stop searching... I've always thought that Maura ran off and hid in the woods and died accidentally. I can't imagine that she is alive somewhere. I can imagine that she was picked up by someone while she was running away. Poor Maura. JMO

Renner didn't find anything.

 

[Claireishere]

Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham were again examples of crimes of opportunity.

 

[Caffeine]

Betty Lee is another good example of a crime of opportunity. I believe her case was featured on an episode of Forensic Files.

She went out for a night of drinks with some friends at a bar. Her friends ended up meeting some guys at the bar and decided to leave with them. Betty was uncomfortable with this and pleaded with them to stay but they ended up leaving her at the bar with no ride at closing time.

Betty ended up walking a short distance to a 24 hour gas station to use a pay phone, where she was observed by the clerk working. When he employee looked over again a few minutes later she was gone.

She ended up taking a ride with two guys who killed her and dumped her in the desert.

 

[avamonroe]

Especially if the suspect was someone young, clean-cut, conventionally attractive, and driving a company vehicle. One person of interest matches this description. If the wood chip/carpet sample evidence rules out Claude Moulton, then this is the next guy who should be considered.


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Interesting. Do you mean concrete man? If so I haven't been able to find out how he ever became a person of interest.. But I have always been intrigued by him

 

[Lamima]

Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham were again examples of crimes of opportunity.

But they were grabbed by a predator who frequented populated areas. Maura was way off the beaten path on a cold winter's night.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Interesting. Do you mean concrete man? If so I haven't been able to find out how he ever became a person of interest.. But I have always been intrigued by him

Indeed I do. He became a POI because he drove a red truck and was in the area that night. (The company he worked for was right down the road from the intersection.) Also, he apparently had a reputation locally for being weird and aggressive toward women (ie stalking an ex). He wound up serving overseas with the National Guard.

He’s also “connected” politically, as his father is married to the Grafton County Attorney. I’m convinced that all the rumors of coverups, conspiracies, and contractors burying bodies under their houses comes directly from inflated stories about this guy.


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[Pettibon Junction]

Interesting. Do you mean concrete man? If so I haven't been able to find out how he ever became a person of interest.. But I have always been intrigued by him

Oh, and he also allegedly wrote about Maura in his diary. Showed a bit too much interest in the case for a guy without an alibi. That info comes from John Smith though, so who knows how reliable it is.


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[Kittycat01]

Seems and feels like an abduction resulting in homicide or captivity (which doesnt seem likely after all this time as an intelligent person would have found a way to make contact with someone)....there is no other logical conclusion at this point. Maura placed the rag in her car herself, most likely to avoid a police pullover (as directed by her dad) prob not long before the accident as the car would not have run too long thereafter...she locked her car as said like she was coming back with the dog picking up the last available scent shortly up the road. She was at the wrong place at the wrong time literally and figuratively it seems

I tend to agree. I originally leaned toward her running away and just not wanting to be found. But now I think she met with foul play. I live in a state with mountains and mountain folk as we call them (think where you would go to ski in the US, not gonna say, but think you can guess).

Most folks that live in the mountains are good, decent people. But trust me, there are a lot of weird, strange people that live in the mountains. They don't want to be in society, they are off the grid. They are not June and Ward Cleaver. I have encountered some of these people personally and was very scared by them. I used to visit a mountain town regularly because it was so beautiful, but after encountering some of the locals I refuse to return, it was clannish and scary..

I think Maura got in a car with the wrong person.

 

[teeandcee]

I have a couple of questions.

1. What do y'all make of the mystery call Bill got the next morning?

2. Is there an accurate list of the inventory of her car? One site just says "pks" of sleeping pills, but the show mentioned several packs.

 

[ama142]

Hello you guys.. I'm new here and am still figuring out how the site works. I've really been meaning to ask this though on some type of forum regarding Maura's case...
How extensively did they look into that Butch guy? I've never heard that they searched around his property or questioned him much further. I know he's passed away and can't be questioned further now. But did he check out 100%? Thanks!