NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

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It seems just as simple and likely to me that the bottle had red coolant in it. Winter coolant smells like alcohol. Having problems with a car overheating might cause me to have some extra coolant in my car. It could be that the coolant wasn't actually hers, but when discussing her car troubles with a friend, maybe she dispensed some into a coke bottle for Maura in case of emergencies. It's just another angle that makes sense, at least to me.


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Not to me. Coolant is deadly if ingested. Seems insane to put that in a coke bottle. Is there any evidence of a coolant bottle in or around the car? There is evidence of a box of wine.
 
Not to me. Coolant is deadly if ingested. Seems insane to put that in a coke bottle. Is there any evidence of a coolant bottle in or around the car? There is evidence of a box of wine.

Well there really wouldn't be a coolant bottle around her car in the scenario that I suggested, would there? I'm simply saying that it seems some have jumped to a lot of conclusions regarding Maura. Maybe it was wine, maybe it wasn't. It seems a bit hasty to state as fact that she was, indeed, drinking in the car when there are other possibilities.



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Well there really wouldn't be a coolant bottle around her car in the scenario that I suggested, would there? I'm simply saying that it seems some have jumped to a lot of conclusions regarding Maura. Maybe it was wine, maybe it wasn't. It seems a bit hasty to state as fact that she was, indeed, drinking in the car when there are other possibilities.



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I agree. Coolant could be in a coke bottle. My screen wash is in an old milk bottle right now ha... the original bottle got a whole in it, what was I going to do lol.
 
I agree. Coolant could be in a coke bottle. My screen wash is in an old milk bottle right now ha... the original bottle got a whole in it, what was I going to do lol.

I remember having coolant in a coke bottle, oil in a can that was marked something else (can't remember what), and wiper fluid in a large plastic bottle that was meant for antifreeze. Wiper fluid bottle broke and antifreeze bottle was empty. I knew what everything was, I had no kids, I wasn't married. Who'd else need to know?


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I don't think there's any mistaking the two. Coolant has its own smell, whereas it was noted the bottle had a "strong alcohol odor". Coolant, to me, doesn't smell a strong mixed drink...and the usual toxic green color of it is pretty distinct.
 
Well there really wouldn't be a coolant bottle around her car in the scenario that I suggested, would there? I'm simply saying that it seems some have jumped to a lot of conclusions regarding Maura. Maybe it was wine, maybe it wasn't. It seems a bit hasty to state as fact that she was, indeed, drinking in the car when there are other possibilities.



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I don't think coolant smells like alcohol. Its taste is sweet, and it smells like maple syrup, which is why it is very dangerous to pets and children.

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Suspect the liquid that was red, in a coke bottle, and smelled like alcohol was alcohol, especially given the presence of other red liquid in the car that was, well, alcohol. But of course there are an infinite number of other substances it could be, with varying levels of likelihood.
 
I don't think coolant smells like alcohol. Its taste is sweet, and it smells like maple syrup, which is why it is very dangerous to pets and children.

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Suspect the liquid that was red, in a coke bottle, and smelled like alcohol was alcohol, especially given the presence of other red liquid in the car that was, well, alcohol. But of course there are an infinite number of other substances it could be, with varying levels of likelihood.
They stopped making antifreeze "sweet" tasting and smelling like maple syrup awhile ago and required companies to add a bittering agent...oh, I guess it wasn't until after 2008 (according to Google) to be A.S.P.C.A. friendly (and of course to prevent poisonings to humans- intentional or unintentional)

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This case is sad and has always bothered me, but I am so glad to see the interest after all this time. I was living in Boston when Maura dissapeared, and had a condo in Lincoln NH. We had often participated in MP searches up in the area, but I remember when Maura disappeared I had just started a new job and did not have the flexibility to go up there and felt bad. There is a lot of over analyzing sometimes I think, which happens after so many years and no new information. I was a college student in Boston, although a decade before Maura, but not much was different. I didn't go to UMASS, but when I was in college, it was one of the biggest party schools in the state (ZOO-MASS)...but going to college in Boston in the early 90s was a party as well because you had free access to every bar, so I don't know if there was much difference, except we also took cabs and public transportation instead of being stuck on campus. Maura came from an Irish family from the East Coast. Family keeps to themselves, especially any problems or issues and deals with them quietly. This is something that my husband and I argue about to this day...I hate when he talks about any family issues with friends or even his mom, it could be something as simple as an arguement. I believe the Murray family also to some degree subscribers to this as well, but knows they need to give pertinent information to help find their daughter, but still want to maintain some of their family issues, regardless of how small, within the family if they are not relevant to finding Maura. People need their privacy, it does not mean they are necessarily hiding something. Unfortunately this leads to speculation, which is just that.

College kids do all sorts of crazy and stupid things, it is not necessarily indicator of future things to come. I was in a sorority, trust me, we all turned out fine, and ended up successful (or an alcoholic). Stealing credit card numbers to order subs or pizzas (double orders) is not necessarily indicative of a possible eating disorder...especially if you plan on eating it over a day or two (we used to do it all the time...except not with stolen credit cards...my favorite was Chinese food)...I did know people who stole credit card numbers when I lived in the dorms and meal points (all delivery restaurants used them) and when they got caught it was a slap on the wrist, they had to pay back the money, and community service probably...and to my knowledge none became criminals

The fear of the accidents I think is also something that is being over analyzed. I have a friend who got in 3 accidents in one week...2 about 15 minutes apart (the first one he needed stitches, his dad got a rental and a few days later he crashed into a car, got so upset he hit another about 15 minutes later), the bottem line was although his dad was upset, he was glad everone was safe. I had a crappy driving record (hitting parked cars) and thought my dad was going to kill me, but again, my dad was less then thrilled, and less then thrilled with the cost of the damage, he was glad I was safe (and then took me to an eye dr. and it turned out I needed glasses). I am going to guess that FM after the first accident was less then thrilled, but glad his daughter was safe. I also think that even after the accident in NH, M would probably know her dad would not be thrilled, and possibly disappointed, but be relieved no one was hurt and she was safe, regardless of the circumstances.

As for Maura leaving...I think about myself when I was in college. I lived out of boxes because I hated unpacking and it drove my family nuts! I would often take off to Cape Cod without telling anyone (my parents lived on the other side of the country at the time) and my grandparents, who were basically my "parents" lived an hour and a half away. There were many times when my friends and I were going places we packed "road sodas" for the drive (never when I drove alone though...that was all coffee, especially late at night). There were plenty of times I hit the liquor store before leaving town because of the blue laws (depending on the state/town you can only buy beer and wine at a certain place in NH, and VT liquor at another, and times and days open vary, and depending where your headed those places can be few and far between) so that actually makes sense to me.

So, Maura crashes (or something like that) on Rt. 112. When Atwood asks if she needs the police she says no, she called AAA...but that is highly unlikely since there is no cell service (she had Sprint and so do I and there service up there, even on roaming sucked back then). When police show up she is gone. I am intentionality ignoring all witness accounts. In the car they find a spilled possible "road soda," rag in the tail pipe, and some alcohol in the car...assume it is a drunk driver thats split. Police do a search of the area (brief) and tell EMS to go. Car is towed to not the place that it should be but LaVois.

So, my thoughts are this...it is possible she may have been driving her vehicle and another was following going to the same location and they picked her up...and as something bad happened (this someone was known to her and intended to harm her, possibly put the rag in the tail pipe at a gas station, and I have theories on who/why)

Or someone picked her up because she was hitchhiking (possibly trying to get a ride somewhere with a phone) and something went wrong

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Lots of good points in the last comment but one in particular is important - Maura wasn't a bad person by any stretch. I personally knew plenty of people in my early 20s who were making decisions far worse than her.

With that said, I think something terrible happened here and I certainly don't think she deserved it nor should we try and blame or degrade her.

It is a really sad and puzzling case but while I try and remain hopeful I think the only way we'll see closure is 1) discovering her remains or 2) a confession if someone was involved.
 
This case is sad and has always bothered me, but I am so glad to see the interest after all this time. I was living in Boston when Maura dissapeared, and had a condo in Lincoln NH. We had often participated in MP searches up in the area, but I remember when Maura disappeared I had just started a new job and did not have the flexibility to go up there and felt bad. There is a lot of over analyzing sometimes I think, which happens after so many years and no new information. I was a college student in Boston, although a decade before Maura, but not much was different. I didn't go to UMASS, but when I was in college, it was one of the biggest party schools in the state (ZOO-MASS)...but going to college in Boston in the early 90s was a party as well because you had free access to every bar, so I don't know if there was much difference, except we also took cabs and public transportation instead of being stuck on campus. Maura came from an Irish family from the East Coast. Family keeps to themselves, especially any problems or issues and deals with them quietly. This is something that my husband and I argue about to this day...I hate when he talks about any family issues with friends or even his mom, it could be something as simple as an arguement. I believe the Murray family also to some degree subscribers to this as well, but knows they need to give pertinent information to help find their daughter, but still want to maintain some of their family issues, regardless of how small, within the family if they are not relevant to finding Maura. People need their privacy, it does not mean they are necessarily hiding something. Unfortunately this leads to speculation, which is just that.

College kids do all sorts of crazy and stupid things, it is not necessarily indicator of future things to come. I was in a sorority, trust me, we all turned out fine, and ended up successful (or an alcoholic). Stealing credit card numbers to order subs or pizzas (double orders) is not necessarily indicative of a possible eating disorder...especially if you plan on eating it over a day or two (we used to do it all the time...except not with stolen credit cards...my favorite was Chinese food)...I did know people who stole credit card numbers when I lived in the dorms and meal points (all delivery restaurants used them) and when they got caught it was a slap on the wrist, they had to pay back the money, and community service probably...and to my knowledge none became criminals

The fear of the accidents I think is also something that is being over analyzed. I have a friend who got in 3 accidents in one week...2 about 15 minutes apart (the first one he needed stitches, his dad got a rental and a few days later he crashed into a car, got so upset he hit another about 15 minutes later), the bottem line was although his dad was upset, he was glad everone was safe. I had a crappy driving record (hitting parked cars) and thought my dad was going to kill me, but again, my dad was less then thrilled, and less then thrilled with the cost of the damage, he was glad I was safe (and then took me to an eye dr. and it turned out I needed glasses). I am going to guess that FM after the first accident was less then thrilled, but glad his daughter was safe. I also think that even after the accident in NH, M would probably know her dad would not be thrilled, and possibly disappointed, but be relieved no one was hurt and she was safe, regardless of the circumstances.

As for Maura leaving...I think about myself when I was in college. I lived out of boxes because I hated unpacking and it drove my family nuts! I would often take off to Cape Cod without telling anyone (my parents lived on the other side of the country at the time) and my grandparents, who were basically my "parents" lived an hour and a half away. There were many times when my friends and I were going places we packed "road sodas" for the drive (never when I drove alone though...that was all coffee, especially late at night). There were plenty of times I hit the liquor store before leaving town because of the blue laws (depending on the state/town you can only buy beer and wine at a certain place in NH, and VT liquor at another, and times and days open vary, and depending where your headed those places can be few and far between) so that actually makes sense to me.

So, Maura crashes (or something like that) on Rt. 112. When Atwood asks if she needs the police she says no, she called AAA...but that is highly unlikely since there is no cell service (she had Sprint and so do I and there service up there, even on roaming sucked back then). When police show up she is gone. I am intentionality ignoring all witness accounts. In the car they find a spilled possible "road soda," rag in the tail pipe, and some alcohol in the car...assume it is a drunk driver thats split. Police do a search of the area (brief) and tell EMS to go. Car is towed to not the place that it should be but LaVois.

So, my thoughts are this...it is possible she may have been driving her vehicle and another was following going to the same location and they picked her up...and as something bad happened (this someone was known to her and intended to harm her, possibly put the rag in the tail pipe at a gas station, and I have theories on who/why)

Or someone picked her up because she was hitchhiking (possibly trying to get a ride somewhere with a phone) and something went wrong

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I agree that each piece could have an alternative...maybe she just had a bad week, accident-wise, maybe she just liked to store her things in boxes, maybe the stolen credit card was a misunderstanding, maybe she was ordering pizza to keep over a couple days, but I think if you also take into account some of the information about her time at West Point, it's pretty clear that not all was well with her. I am in no way saying that she's a bad person. I just think things were hard for her at that particular time.

In any case, I have never believed the tandem driver theory. It doesn't really explain her disappearance because there's still the question of what happened to her. I have always thought it was possible that she took off because she didn't want to be arrested, and then decided it really was much too cold to keep running with no plan, which is when she may have decided to accept a ride. MOO.
 
Lots of good points in the last comment but one in particular is important - Maura wasn't a bad person by any stretch. I personally knew plenty of people in my early 20s who were making decisions far worse than her.

With that said, I think something terrible happened here and I certainly don't think she deserved it nor should we try and blame or degrade her.

It is a really sad and puzzling case but while I try and remain hopeful I think the only way we'll see closure is 1) discovering her remains or 2) a confession if someone was involved.
I agree..

I can say, when I was that age I thought I was invincible and jumped in to peoples cars without thinking twice. In a small town, you think you are especially safe. I know if it were me at her age, and my car broke down at night and I had no cell service, especially up there where you are in the middle of no where, and someone offered me a ride to a gas station or restaurant where I could use a phone I would have taken it (especially in February when its freezing) if that was one such scenario.

There is no proof she was drunk, or suicidal...only speculation...

If she ran into the woods and died from exposure she would not have gotten far and most likely have been recovered (or at least what belongings she had with her) that spring when the snow melted.

That just leaves most likely foul play...and I agree, without a confession or a body there is not much to go on...except maybe after 13 years people's relationships and ties with each other will eventually sour and people will start talking...but unfortunately "what goes on in a family stays in the family"-unless someone leaves the family

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I am new to this type of thing but have been reading up on this case a little bit in the past couple hours and have come up with some questions I think might be relevant.
*Why was she driving around in New Hampshire when she lived and was in school in Massachusetts? What was she doing there in the first place?

*There was a pen found in her car with a 'Skyvalley4you.com' pen in it, I looked up the place which turned out to be a cottage/apartment type place on 35 acres. Did they ever check this place out to see if she went there? It was also in the White Mountain area where she had been.

*It was said that her two friends Kate and another girl would not disclose what happened at the party Maura attended a little bit before she disappeared. Now isn't this unusual? If my good friend went missing, at least in my case, I would try to gather up all the details I remembered and everything to try to find my friend.

*Why did her car seemed like she was living in it? Everything from outfits, shampoo, razors, toothpaste, food, ect. was found in it. Shouldn't have that stuff been all in her dorm room?
 
She packed up her dorm room prior to leaving.


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That's definitely a point of contention as one could argue she just never unpacked from winter break. It's hard to say, and I really don't think there's enough information out there to really say for sure, IMO.

However, based on the contents of the car I think the plan was to, at the very least, spend some time away from her dorm. I don't think this was a quick trip at all, she had a place in mind and was planning to stay there for several days, I believe.
 
I am new to this type of thing but have been reading up on this case a little bit in the past couple hours and have come up with some questions I think might be relevant.
*Why was she driving around in New Hampshire when she lived and was in school in Massachusetts? What was she doing there in the first place?

*There was a pen found in her car with a 'Skyvalley4you.com' pen in it, I looked up the place which turned out to be a cottage/apartment type place on 35 acres. Did they ever check this place out to see if she went there? It was also in the White Mountain area where she had been.

*It was said that her two friends Kate and another girl would not disclose what happened at the party Maura attended a little bit before she disappeared. Now isn't this unusual? If my good friend went missing, at least in my case, I would try to gather up all the details I remembered and everything to try to find my friend.

*Why did her car seemed like she was living in it? Everything from outfits, shampoo, razors, toothpaste, food, ect. was found in it. Shouldn't have that stuff been all in her dorm room?

1. If only we knew the answer to that. Although she had spent a lot of time up there and it was one of her favourite places to go/hike.

2. Unsure. I hope so else that is just a stone left un-turned imo.

3. Yes. And this and other reasons are why I'm so convinced she's alive and chose to "disappear" herself.

4. Seems to me as if she didn't plan on returning.

This is all just :moo:
 
The individuals on this board tarring Maura as a criminal and sociopath demonstrate a real ignorance of what the psychology behind addiction and bulimia looks like. A young woman caught making mistakes (and, I should note, engaging in risky behavior that really only ever resulted in harm to herself) is not a monster and we should not fall into the trap of allowing hindsight to make her one.


I'm sure if I went missing in my early 20s people would of painted me as a criminal psychopath drug addict/alcoholic too. Even with all the evidence of her troubles, they do not distincively point us towards the direction of her fate, which makes this case all the more frusterating and mysterious.
 
An interview I conducted with James Renner, author of the Maura Murray-based book "True Crime Addict":

https://truecrimefactor.com/2016/05/21/true-crime-factor-interview-james-renner-2/

From the article, a quote by Renner:

"Obviously, Fred Murray was more concerned about keeping a lid on Maura’s dark secrets than he was in finding his daughter."

I guess it's a good thing that Renner is off the psychotropic drugs, because it certainly seems like something is going on with him. His statement that her father was more concerned about keeping a lid on Maura's "dark secrets" than in finding his daughter is a great example of how he makes stuff up with great confidence and authority. His real contribution was releasing the documents that he obtained via FOIA; however, he is as in the dark as anyone about what happened. :moo:
 
From the article, a quote by Renner:

"Obviously, Fred Murray was more concerned about keeping a lid on Maura’s dark secrets than he was in finding his daughter."

I guess it's a good thing that Renner is off the psychotropic drugs, because it certainly seems like something is going on with him. His statement that her father was more concerned about keeping a lid on Maura's "dark secrets" than in finding his daughter is a great example of how he makes stuff up with great confidence and authority. His real contribution was releasing the documents that he obtained via FOIA; however, he is as in the dark as anyone about what happened. :moo:
That's a callus statement by Renner. However, I believe Fred Murray has held a lot of information back regarding his relationship with Maura and some of the issues she was having over the years. So there is some partial truth to his statement but of course he wants to find his daughter.

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