NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 4

[docwho3]

. . . Another thought...Her car was still driveable... why walk away from it?

The car was towed from the scene and not driven.

I do not know if it was stuck or what its condition was at the time of the accident and I doubt anyone else does who was not at the scene. According to family posts on her website forum the car started up after it had been towed and had sat some time when it was later tried (quite some time later if I remember the posts) but that was not at the scene and not on the same day even as the accident and no one said the car was driven anywhere in its postwreck condition to say if it was drivable or not. At the time of the wreck the car may not have started due to to any number of factors (including a sort of carb flooding) and yet may have started later on.

And even if it started I do not know that it would be driveable and have not read any posts to say it was driven afterwards. After a wreck some cars go into "limp home mode" and won't drive well at all, and I also don't know if that car would have done so even if it had been drivable.

But if her car was fine and was not stuck I see no reason she just didn't drive on her way, except possibly she panicked and decided to hop a ride with her helper (I suppose if the powder from the airbags was all over and the bags hanging out it may have influenced her decision) and that too makes less sense than just continuing her journey as planned in her Saturn.

 

[armywife210]

czechmate, I am not offering up "because she wouldnt do that" as my proof.
Maura's boyfriend/soon to be fiance, Billy, and his mother have appeared several times on television programs. Billy has appeared both in person and through video conferencing, as the military allows him. Maura's mother has throat cancer. I suppose it would be a bit difficult for her to appear... If I am not mistaken Maura's sister has been in Iraq for quite some time....
There are many reasons why Maura didn't confide in anyone about her problems. Mainly it's her personality. She just likes to work through it herself. Some people are like that. Perhaps something happened on campus that she wasnt ready to talk about. There are many reasons, and without being Maura, I cannot tell you what it was. Personally I think that it was just the abundance of stress that snowballed, and she just needed time to herself. I should have quoted your post, I think I replied to everything though. Or atleast everything that didn't sound sarcastic and rude (ie that I get to choose comment).

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Medusa,
There are no "facts" of Maura just up and taking off. Only what you want to make of facts. People who know her, and those who don't alike, make other scenerios of these facts. And they are just as likely to a fence sitter as your theories.
I hope you are not referring to me as not telling you what I know, and who I am. I have a lot of notes, a lot of facts, and what I dont know about Maura I can find out quickly, but I am not saying "trust me, this is what I know to be true but I cant tell you why I say this".
As far as Weeper on mauramurray.com, at first I wondered who the person with the pants on to tight was too. However, Helena is Maura's family member, and she verified her inside knowledge as that only known by those working the case, and the family.

And there are no facts something sinister happened either. Actually, with the lies about leaving and all, there are more facts she left voluntarily. The "facts" something sinister happened are simply someones opinion or view of what is known.

I was not referring to you - although you do post like that. Your opinions are your opinions and whatever you post is your opinion - or your spin on the family's opinions.

Is weeper then one of the private investigators or LE? And other than their say so, how do we know that? Hmm,. who here can guess the answer on this?

 

[armywife210]

And there are no facts something sinister happened either. Actually, with the lies about leaving and all, there are more facts she left voluntarily. The "facts" something sinister happened are simply someones opinion or view of what is known.

I was not referring to you - although you do post like that. Your opinions are your opinions and whatever you post is your opinion - or your spin on the family's opinions.

Is weeper then one of the private investigators or LE? And other than their say so, how do we know that? Hmm,. who here can guess the answer on this?

Because a close family member has verified many of the things Weeper has said to her in PM that have never been made public.
The only things that I know are things that I have been told by Maura's family and Sharon, Billy's mother. I haven't even talked to Billy personally about this. Though my husband knows him well and I could ask him if I thought it the right thing to do.. I have only posted because I have been asked to post. The only reason I may seem to "know things" or seemingly act like I do is because if I dont know the answer I ask those who sent me here.
Many people "call in sick", it doesn't mean that they were trying to kill themselves if they get into a car accident that day... or something like that. College kids use this excuse all of the time.

 

[armywife210]

I am not trying to act like a know it all.
Why we have to take such an immature, unhealthy, and sarcastic tone toward eachother is beyond me. I am not here to crucify anyone, be condescending, or try to make anyone appear stupid. I certainly would like the same respect.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

I am not trying to act like a know it all.
Why we have to take such an immature, unhealthy, and sarcastic tone toward eachother is beyond me. I am not here to crucify anyone, be condescending, or try to make anyone appear stupid. I certainly would like the same respect.

If we disagree with you or the family position we are immature, unhealthy and sarcastic. That is really beyond me.

Truce - there apparently is no discussion with you so I will not respond to you anymore and would ask you do the same.

 

[MagicRose99]

IMO: You're stating things that the family believes to be true... not proven facts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and theories. I say BRAVO to those who are asking hard questions, asking for proof, asking for facts (not presumed facts) to try and form a plausible explanation to Maura's disappearance.

I honestly don't understand why people object to this? Is it because it might prove their theories, their presumed facts wrong? Isn't what everyone wants is to bring Maura home one way or another?

I say ask questions, look for facts... actual facts, look for the truth... nothing is fact until PROVEN as fact.

Because a close family member has verified many of the things Weeper has said to her in PM that have never been made public.
The only things that I know are things that I have been told by Maura's family and Sharon, Billy's mother. I haven't even talked to Billy personally about this. Though my husband knows him well and I could ask him if I thought it the right thing to do.. I have only posted because I have been asked to post. The only reason I may seem to "know things" or seemingly act like I do is because if I dont know the answer I ask those who sent me here.
Many people "call in sick", it doesn't mean that they were trying to kill themselves if they get into a car accident that day... or something like that. College kids use this excuse all of the time.

 

[czechmate7]

czechmate, I am not offering up "because she wouldnt do that" as my proof.
Maura's boyfriend/soon to be fiance, Billy, and his mother have appeared several times on television programs. Billy has appeared both in person and through video conferencing, as the military allows him. Maura's mother has throat cancer. I suppose it would be a bit difficult for her to appear... If I am not mistaken Maura's sister has been in Iraq for quite some time....
There are many reasons why Maura didn't confide in anyone about her problems. Mainly it's her personality. She just likes to work through it herself. Some people are like that. Perhaps something happened on campus that she wasnt ready to talk about. There are many reasons, and without being Maura, I cannot tell you what it was. Personally I think that it was just the abundance of stress that snowballed, and she just needed time to herself. I should have quoted your post, I think I replied to everything though. Or atleast everything that didn't sound sarcastic and rude (ie that I get to choose comment).

Billy and Sharon are not part of Maura's family.

So your admitting that Maura didn't confide in many people because that wasn't her personality, but your trying to convince everyone that family/friends knew Maura well enough to know *for a fact* *without a reasonable doubt* that Maura wouldn't take off....you yourself admitted she did just that (in bold)

Im sorry if you think my post are rude. I just don't like someone coming in to cut me off at every turn when I am trying to understand the factual evidence that has been presented in the case.

By the way, I believe Maura has 4 siblings....(or there are 4 in the family) I never can remember...

 

[docwho3]

Docwho,
I am in very close contact with the family. It is true that certain things and people are not being exposed yet because of the likelihood of it coming back to haunt prosecution later. Sometimes things just cant be leaked.
I am not yelling murderer in any direction. I am saying that Maura was not seen by anyone after the bus driver was seen with her. . . .

I take it then that you are discounting the construction worker's eye witness account of seeing her later? I could go along with that just as a possible theory without much problem but L.E. seemed to think it a credible sighting(according to news reports) so I keep that in mind too.

I think (but do not know) that this whole accident thing was after dark when all this took place so I would think the only things seen would happen under a nearby pole light or only headlights and a silhouette. If the bus driver sat in his bus doing paperwork he would have needed a light on to work by and so would be visible from a distance. And I am still puzzled as to the opportunity he would have needed to get Maura and yet escape being the main suspect.

Several things need to be true for the bus driver to have been guilty of a crime towards Maura and I do not yet see evidence of those things having come to pass. According to news reports his wife was home and a neighbor saw him speaking to Maura and the neighbor phoned in the report sooner than the bus driver was able to do due to a dispatch problem with the 911 service.

There were just too many possible witnesses around and the police were there so soon.

Note: I appreciate that the family may have sources and info they may not yet feel like revealing. But even in weepers case I did not read them saying that they had infact confirmed the statements as true but just that they had heard this from more than one source. And even if true it still does not grant him opportunity to do the crime and escape notice and great suspicion, in fact just doing the crime even with suspicion and notice would have needed to be a very quick thing.

Now, if you play the large conspiracy theory that the wife, the neighbor and the bus driver were all in it together and you move the accident time back to happening in daylight then maybe you have a case. But that theory is far wilder than her being a runaway and as yet has nothing in public evidence to indicate it.

 

[armywife210]

quote....
And other than their say so, how do we know that? Hmm,. who here can guess the answer on this?
I consider things like this on the sarcastic side.

At any rate, yes I consider the Rausches family. If you don't I can respect that. If my parents would have adopted a child, I would consider that child my sibling. I consider my brothers wife my sister. My husbands family is most definately my family, as they were before we got married. Billy and Maura were looking at rings over Christmas vacation. Again, if you don't consider them family that is fine.

Yes, there are four children. Kathleen, Freddy JR, Julie (WP grad), and Maura.

Maura did like to work things out on her own. That doesn't mean that she lived in a box and when she said things like "I cant wait to get married and have little Billy's" that she was full of bull.

 

[czechmate7]

If we disagree with you or the family position we are immature, unhealthy and sarcastic. That is really beyond me.

Truce - there apparently is no discussion with you so I will not respond to you anymore and would ask you do the same.

Armywife, you bring such a negative vibe with your post.

I ditto Medusa's post....I too call for a truce and would no longer like to discuss this case with you.

 

[Peabody]

Exactly! I'm with you on this...

the only evidence is that Maura disappeared willingly[/b]. Saying something is fact because the family wants to believe it, for whatever reason, doesn't make it so.

There is absolutely no evidence that Maura disappeared willingly.

It is a fact that Maura willingly planned a trip to where abouts unknown without notifying any family, friend or boyfriend. (It is a fact that she placed a call to 800GoStowe which is in VT and did a mapquest search to Burlington VT as well as a made call to rent a condo in Bartlett NH - her last known call for a "room") ne.

It is a fact that on the day she vanished, before she left UMass, she attempted to call her boyfriend/fiance several times and after not reaching him, she sent him an email with the promise to call that night.

Doesn't that seem logical that she was making an attempt to inform him of her plans????? FYI: no one could call her father during the day: he was not allowed to take calls at the hospital and his cell phone had to be turned off because he works in a hospital where cell phones are not allowed. Again, it seems logical that she would not attempt to call Dad. Her family, friends and boyfriend are in agreement that they are the two that she would inform of her plans.........they also agree that it is logical that she would not leave a message of her plans for her dad or her boyfriend out of consideration that for them to receive such a message would create concern and possibly panic.......this is a supportive reasoning in their minds and hearts that their worst fear that she has been harmed is most likely. Hopefully, you saw the 20/20 show wherein Fred and Sharon stated that hope that she is alive is what kept them going.......the boyfriend said that there are times he doesn't now how to refer to Maura: His former girlfriend, his ex-girlfriend or his current girlfriend.......I recall that someone on this forum took this to mean that he "was over Maura" - I can assure you that information from those who are close to him advise that he is far from "over Maura" and that his remark meant that he didn't know if she had runaway and was now his former/ex-girlfriend or his current girlfriend, because as far as he is concerned, if she is living, if she desires, she is still his girlfriend.

Maybe Maura did runaway - we all hope that she did. But, sadly, we no more evidence of her running away than there is that she committed suicide: both theories of NH SP.

Maybe she is no longer living. That is the worst fear of all that love Maura.

That is the mystery - the tragedy: there is no proof of any of these possibilities.

 

[MagicRose99]

And there's no proof that she was abducted or committed suicide...

Why have certain people come in and continue to shoot down every theory, every question that doesn't jibe with what the family believes? Let's ask questions... let's explore all possiblities, let's go with the outrageous and see what we can come up with! Why do we all have to go by the "rules" the family believes?

Unless there are facts... facts that you can prove, ANYTHING is possible...

There is absolutely no evidence that Maura disappeared willingly.

It is a fact that Maura willingly planned a trip to where abouts unknown without notifying any family, friend or boyfriend. (It is a fact that she placed a call to 800GoStowe which is in VT and did a mapquest search to Burlington VT as well as a made call to rent a condo in Bartlett NH - her last known call for a "room") ne.

It is a fact that on the day she vanished, before she left UMass, she attempted to call her boyfriend/fiance several times and after not reaching him, she sent him an email with the promise to call that night.

Doesn't that seem logical that she was making an attempt to inform him of her plans????? FYI: no one could call her father during the day: he was not allowed to take calls at the hospital and his cell phone had to be turned off because he works in a hospital where cell phones are not allowed. Again, it seems logical that she would not attempt to call Dad. Her family, friends and boyfriend are in agreement that they are the two that she would inform of her plans.........they also agree that it is logical that she would not leave a message of her plans for her dad or her boyfriend out of consideration that for them to receive such a message would create concern and possibly panic.......this is a supportive reasoning in their minds and hearts that their worst fear that she has been harmed is most likely. Hopefully, you saw the 20/20 show wherein Fred and Sharon stated that hope that she is alive is what kept them going.......the boyfriend said that there are times he doesn't now how to refer to Maura: His former girlfriend, his ex-girlfriend or his current girlfriend.......I recall that someone on this forum took this to mean that he "was over Maura" - I can assure you that information from those who are close to him advise that he is far from "over Maura" and that his remark meant that he didn't know if she had runaway and was now his former/ex-girlfriend or his current girlfriend, because as far as he is concerned, if she is living, if she desires, she is still his girlfriend.

Maybe Maura did runaway - we all hope that she did. But, sadly, we no more evidence of her running away than there is that she committed suicide: both theories of NH SP.

Maybe she is no longer living. That is the worst fear of all that love Maura.

That is the mystery - the tragedy: there is no proof of any of these possibilities.

 

[nnglas]

Magic Rose,

I agree with you. Unfortunately is seems that if do not agree that Maura was kidnapped/murdered you are blasted for not basing your theory on fact. I agree with Peabody that there are no facts really leading either way. But there are circumstances that everybody has a right to interpret any way that they want. Right now they are all theories, and I think that we should be able to discuss them without being blasted.

BTW, I find it very interesting that it is okay to speculate about the SBD and the things he either saw or did, but isn't that all speculation with no facts? So why is it ok for the "family" to speculate, but we can't?

I am just glad that I am not the only one who notices that whenever anybody's theory doesn't jive with the family's theory it is a problem.

 

[Peabody]

Billy and Sharon are not part of Maura's family.

Legally, you are correct: Billy and Sharon are not Maura's family.

However, Billy and Maura were only months from being married.

If Maura had gone missing only a few months later, then Billy and Sharon would legally be considered family.

Are we to believe that Billy, Sharon and possibly others in Billy's family never considered her family because of a "legal" technicality?

I am certain that they most likely considered Maura "family" long before she went missing just as a family that is adopting a child that has lived with them considers the child "family" long before the legal process is complete.

Regardless, it is obvious that Maura's family considers the Raushes her family.......otherwise, they would not embrace their ongoing love, support and involvement in Maura's case.

It is also obvious that the Rausches consider Maura "family". The love, the persistance, and the commitment they have shown in their quest to find her is more than proof.

 

[MagicRose99]

Believe me... you are not the only one! LOL!

It's sad when people try to guide the thread in one direction, discounting any other thoughts/possiblities. We should be going in all directions and hopefully find something or at least a plausible possiblity. I respect the fact that Maura's family has to or wants to believe something, but that's no reason to stop others from looking at other possiblities.

To me, speculation may lead to the truth... if you can't speculate how are you ever going to find the truth?

Magic Rose,

I agree with you. Unfortunately is seems that if do not agree that Maura was kidnapped/murdered you are blasted for not basing your theory on fact. I agree with Peabody that there are no facts really leading either way. But there are circumstances that everybody has a right to interpret any way that they want. Right now they are all theories, and I think that we should be able to discuss them without being blasted.

BTW, I find it very interesting that it is okay to speculate about the SBD and the things he either saw or did, but isn't that all speculation with no facts? So why is it ok for the "family" to speculate, but we can't?

I am just glad that I am not the only one who notices that whenever anybody's theory doesn't jive with the family's theory it is a problem.

 

[Peabody]

Magic Rose,

I agree with you. Unfortunately is seems that if do not agree that Maura was kidnapped/murdered you are blasted for not basing your theory on fact. I agree with Peabody that there are no facts really leading either way. But there are circumstances that everybody has a right to interpret any way that they want. Right now they are all theories, and I think that we should be able to discuss them without being blasted.

BTW, I find it very interesting that it is okay to speculate about the SBD and the things he either saw or did, but isn't that all speculation with no facts? So why is it ok for the "family" to speculate, but we can't?

I am just glad that I am not the only one who notices that whenever anybody's theory doesn't jive with the family's theory it is a problem.

I disagree that I, or any other poster on this thread finds it is a problem whenever a theory doesn't jive with the famly's theory.

Number one - to my knowledge, you will find absolutely NO post by the family that speculates that the SBD is guilty of harming Maura. It is true that examination of his statements lead to contradicions in his story. That is not speculation, but fact. That there are inconsistences in his story does not mean that he harmed Maura. I can think of many reasons that a person finds themselves in the limelight and does not tell the same story.

hydemi often posts that his/her theory is that Maura is a runaway. hydemi happens to be one of my favorite posters and I have relayed as much in a recent private message. Also hydemi bases his/her theory on the few facts not on supposition.

And just as importantly, hydemi does not speculate or present any theory and pose his/her theory as a fact.

I truly believe that misunderstandings are occuring because Armywife and I point out that certain posts are not factual........just as I recently emphasized - there is much mystery and very little fact.

You are correct, that we can theorize all we want and come up with literally thousands of scenarios, but isn't that useless? Shouldn't we at least conform to what few facts exist?

I do disagree with the following:

let's explore all possiblities, let's go with the outrageous and see what we can come up with! Why do we all have to go by the "rules" the family believes?

What do we gain by expoloring the "outrageous"?

The family is not on this thread. They have not set forth any rules - Those are facts and it is so harmful to this case and any case to not have the foundation of any theory be fact based.

And, before the debate begins about this post, I am not being argumentative; I am not being sarcastic, I am blasting anyone and I am certainly not saying that others are not entitled to their opinion.

I am pointing out facts and will continue to do so.......my apologies if some of you dislike my doing so.

 

[czechmate7]

Legally, you are correct: Billy and Sharon are not Maura's family.

However, Billy and Maura were only months from being married.

If Maura had gone missing only a few months later, then Billy and Sharon would legally be considered family.

Are we to believe that Billy, Sharon and possibly others in Billy's family never considered her family because of a "legal" technicality?

I am certain that they most likely considered Maura "family" long before she went missing just as a family that is adopting a child that has lived with them considers the child "family" long before the legal process is complete.

Regardless, it is obvious that Maura's family considers the Raushes her family.......otherwise, they would not embrace their ongoing love, support and involvement in Maura's case.

It is also obvious that the Rausches consider Maura "family". The love, the persistance, and the commitment they have shown in their quest to find her is more than proof.

Peabody,
This is an interesting fact I haven't heard. I didn't know Maura and Billy were planning to wed months before her disappearance.
It has already been determined that Maura dealt with her problems w/o involving others..that's the way she was...what if...only speculation, Maura began to second guess getting married or decided she no longer wanted to be with Billy. Since Maura handles her issues privately this is something no one else would have known. She could have put on a front...talking about having little Billies and what not. She was 21, and she had been with Billy how long? Maybe she just decided she wanted to explore more before settling down? Things like that happen.

 

[nnglas]

Peabody,

Are you now saying that the theory that Maura was kidnapped/murdered is supported with facts? If so there are evidently more facts out there that aren't being told. It is my opinion that Maura being kidnapped/murdered is speculation. You keep saying that you want to make sure that everybody looks at the facts of the case, but the known facts don't really lead you in either direction. At this point, everybody is speculating. This is a discussion forum, you keep saying stick to the facts, and you just want to clarify facts, nobody is disputing the facts. But are you saying that the facts of the case as you know them could not lead anybody in another direction? Exactly what is the problem then when people post that maybe Maura ran away or committed suicide?


Did Billy and Maura have a wedding date set?

 

[docwho3]

Peabody,
This is an interesting fact I haven't heard. I didn't know Maura and Billy were planning to wed months before her disappearance.
It has already been determined that Maura dealt with her problems w/o involving others..that's the way she was...what if...only speculation, Maura began to second guess getting married or decided she no longer wanted to be with Billy. Since Maura handles her issues privately this is something no one else would have known. She could have put on a front...talking about having little Billies and what not. She was 21, and she had been with Billy how long? Maybe she just decided she wanted to explore more before settling down? Things like that happen.

You ask some good questions. And Peabody's response interests me. The actual phrase used in news reports was they were engaged to be engaged and had went ring shopping. I have not yet seen any posts saying they had actually had the question popped and answered and that a date had been set. I would be interested in hearing of more on this subject as it gives me even more cause to consider cold feet possibilities.

. . . Rausch said he flew out first thing Wednesday morning. When asked how he is connected to Maura, he said, "Well, her father didn't know this, but we are engaged to be engaged.". . .

http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/97eabb751