NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 5

[dee10134]

I agree that this is a likely scenario - wasn't there a young woman who disappeared while biking and it turned out that some folks had been drinking and driving and hit her and disposed of the body- rachel someone??

We as a group hear alot of stories about folks who are kidnapped but I believe its more likely that Maura met with an accident of some sort - I'll also consider that in her altered state that she somehow perished on her own, falling in the woods or freezing.

Yeah, but if Maura had met with an accident of some sort, her scent just wouldn't have stopped in the middle of the road, as it had in this case. The search dogs lost her scent in the middle of the road. This is why they believe she got into a passing automobile.

If Maura had been hit by a car, you'd think her scent would be all over the road. Even if she landed on the hood, they would still have to drag her off and put her in their trunk or backseat (*SHUDDER*), which would leave more scent on the road, assuming they dragged her on the road and didn't carry her.

There would most definitely be blood or other signs of trauma there, especially in a fatal hit and run. Not to mention, there would be parts of the other car there. If you've ever hit a deer, you'll understand what I mean. Even a small deer makes a huge impact. I'm assuming an accident with a human wouldn't be much different than hitting a deer, in terms of damage, blood spatter, etc.

I don't think the hit and run theory works, logically. There's just way too much evidence that would be left behind from a violent fatal accident and no evidence indicating such an accident has been found.

 

[curious1]

A person can sustain fatal injuries with little or no blood. If her injuries were internal there would be no blood until later when it was being coughed up, but someone could die even without coughing up blood. So if she was hit, landed in the middle of the road then was carried off in a car the last scent of her would be in the middle of the road.

With the way this was handled and almost seeming like LE is trying to hide something I keep going back to one scenario. Her original little accident where she ended up in the ditch was called in, she had gotten out of her car to check the damage and thought maybe she would walk to a nearby house. While she is out of the car local LE responding to the call takes the curve a bit fast and slides on a patch of ice and hits her, or she is out further in the road and coming around the curve LE doesn't see her and hits her. LE panics, puts her in patrol car maybe thinking he will get her help and she dies on they way to help and is disposed of or LE just thinks oh crap she's dead after she was hit and puts her in the car and disposes of her. I know I know, crazy, but if it was somone in LE then her body will never be found.

 

[dee10134]

A person can sustain fatal injuries with little or no blood. If her injuries were internal there would be no blood until later when it was being coughed up, but someone could die even without coughing up blood. So if she was hit, landed in the middle of the road then was carried off in a car the last scent of her would be in the middle of the road.

That's highly unlikely if it was a high-speed crash... What is the speed limit for that road? Does anyone know?

With the way this was handled and almost seeming like LE is trying to hide something I keep going back to one scenario. Her original little accident where she ended up in the ditch was called in, she had gotten out of her car to check the damage and thought maybe she would walk to a nearby house. While she is out of the car local LE responding to the call takes the curve a bit fast and slides on a patch of ice and hits her, or she is out further in the road and coming around the curve LE doesn't see her and hits her. LE panics, puts her in patrol car maybe thinking he will get her help and she dies on they way to help and is disposed of or LE just thinks oh crap she's dead after she was hit and puts her in the car and disposes of her. I know I know, crazy, but if it was somone in LE then her body will never be found.

I think that's a bit far fetched, but then again, I guess anything's possible.

I highly doubt LE would panic if they ACCIDENTALLY hit someone. Yes, questions would have to be answered, but do you honestly think murder charges would be brought up against the officer that ACCIDENTALLY hits a person. I don't believe this theory is plausible.

I truly believe Maura met with foul play somewhere on that highway that night and LE has a suspect and is trying to build a case. That would explain the hush-hush going on in LE.

 

[curious1]

Depending on the height of the vehicle it could hit someone in a way that it would rupture the spleen and they could bleed out with minimal damage externally.

In the town where I grew up we had the one cop that was a walking/driving accident waiting to happen. If it could happen it happened to him. One night while chasing a perp he threw his billy club and missed the perp and knocked out the rear window in a vehicle. Things like this, along with wrecking more than one patrol car, finally got him suspended for a bit. He begged the owner of the car not to report it and that he would pay for the window, but it still got reported. Just because someone is in LE doesn't mean they are not human. It's possible a young guy with not a lot of experience in LE would panic if he hit someone. It's also possible that someone with many years on the force and close to retirement could also panic and think there goes my benefits. Am I saying that is what happened? No. But am I open to the possiblity? Yes

That scenario is what drove me away from WS for awhile because I absolutely got blasted for it. I have family and friends in LE and I don't automatically assume the worst of LE, but I also never just give someone a pass because they are LE. I look at all possible scenarios.

 

[LillyRush]

As far as why LE has been wierd about this, I think it's largely for 2 reasons. One, because Maura is not a local of that area and in general this makes people within a community less motivated to help or even cooperate with searches. Two, le immediately had a perception of her as being a problem when they saw the alcohol in the car.

The bus driver has always rubbed me the wrong way. I suppose there is a chance that his comments have been taken out of context in some articles. But, I just don't know. It bothers me that he was quick to try to take credibility away from Maura by saying that when he went to the car window she told him she'd already called triple A. Then, he made sure to mention that he did not see any signs of triple A arriving and also that there was no cell phone service - immediately implying that Maura was a liar and had not called for help.

 

[curious1]

As far as why LE has been wierd about this, I think it's largely for 2 reasons. One, because Maura is not a local of that area and in general this makes people within a community less motivated to help or even cooperate with searches. Two, le immediately had a perception of her as being a problem when they saw the alcohol in the car.

The bus driver has always rubbed me the wrong way. I suppose there is a chance that his comments have been taken out of context in some articles. But, I just don't know. It bothers me that he was quick to try to take credibility away from Maura by saying that when he went to the car window she told him she'd already called triple A. Then, he made sure to mention that he did not see any signs of triple A arriving and also that there was no cell phone service - immediately implying that Maura was a liar and had not called for help.

Yeah, that bus driver did set my hinky meter off I must admit.

 

[gaia227]

The disappearence of Maura has always driven me crazy. What happened to her?
I think LE botched the investigation by not following up leads and not interviewing people in an appropriate amount of time. I think that has a lot to do with why Fred is having such a hard time getting the records. The LE doesn't want it go public.

What about the A-frame house where the dogs got hits? Someone said in the article that the police don't want anything to do with the carpet or investigation that took place at the house - why? If I put myself in an investigators position with a three year old missing person's case I would jump at any new promising leads. I don't understand.

Her actions leading up to her disappearence are bizarre. I understand wanting to get away and be alone but from what I can tell that was not something she typically did and why would she do it then in her rickety car she was having all kinds of problems with - that points to desparation IMO. I wonder if she was pregnant. Reading the article I had a flash of the birth control pills and alcohol and wondered if she hadn't planned on trying to make herself mis-carry the baby instead of having to go through an abortion, telling her family, etc. In 2004 the morning after pills and 'abortion' pills were not as readily available as they are now. Perhaps she planned on staying in a secluded place for a few days and basically abuse her body in an attempt to lose the baby. It sounds crazy but woman do 'crazy' things when faced with situations like unwanted pregnancy. She was definitely preparing to go somewhere which surely did not work in her favor as far as LE is concerned. They too quickly thought of her as someone who wanted to vanish but after all this time, surely not.

The woman in line at the store who claims she saw a young woman mouthing help me blows my mind. If I witnessed something like that I certainly wouldn't just stand there and do nothing.
And the phone call her boyfriend received is very strange and very eerie.
If it was a legitimate wreck she could have started to walk for help, someone approached her and she ran into the surrounding woods, got lost and eventually succombed to the elements hence the man who saw who he thinks is Maura running down the road.
The exterior damage on her car bothers me too. It is not consistent with the type of wreck she supposedly had. And why was there wine outside of the car on the street? Did she get out of the car while holding her wine bottle?

I cannot help but wonder if the bus driver is telling the whole truth. The fact that the dogs found her scent in the vicinity of where Atwood lives is concerning. Not to mention he has given conflicting accounts. First he said she remained in the car and couldn't get out because of the snow drifts, then he said she was outside of the car.

I am sure most of these theories have been discussed and analyzed to death so my apologies for being redundant.
Reading the in-depth article has stirred it all up for me.

I am very impressed with her father and everything he has done. I can't begin to imagine how frustrating it would be to be in his situation.

 

[MagicRose99]

There are several threads for Maura where many of us tried to discuss different theories... but, we stopped because we were basically told that the family's version of events is the only version that was acceptable.

It's sad to see Maura's thread abandoned...

 

[lew657]

I've often wondered what happened to Maura - there are so many possibilities. To me - I think something drove her to go away, possibly pregnant or a relationship with a married man.... who knows and it is probably not important.

I keep thinking - if the bus driver gives us all the creeps through his interviews imagine what he was like in person to a young confused girl. I think she left the car and ran to get away from him and got in the car with the wrong person.

 

[curious1]

There are several threads for Maura where many of us tried to discuss different theories... but, we stopped because we were basically told that the family's version of events is the only version that was acceptable.

It's sad to see Maura's thread abandoned...

It wasn't even the family members who were telling me my ideas were ridiculous. Just WS folks who started down one train of thought and would not allow for any theories except theirs.

 

[gaia227]

Well that is too bad. There is a plethora of different possibilities as to what happened to Maura and one person's theory is no more valid or invalid than the rest.
It tends to be this narrow-minded view that leaves cases like this unsolved. They cling to one or two theories and get tunnel vision.

 

[MagicRose99]

It wasn't even the family members who were telling me my ideas were ridiculous. Just WS folks who started down one train of thought and would not allow for any theories except theirs.

Them too... most of those claimed to "speak for the family"

 

[s_finch]

Yeah, but if Maura had met with an accident of some sort, her scent just wouldn't have stopped in the middle of the road, as it had in this case. The search dogs lost her scent in the middle of the road. This is why they believe she got into a passing automobile.

I've offered this theory several times but don't think anyone has picked up on it and maybe for good reason, maybe it's way off BUT my theory is that she refused the help of the guy who stopped because she wasn't traveling alone. With the amount of alcohol she purchased and the fact she was taking time off from school makes me think she might have had a romantic encounter thing planned and was followed in another vehicle by a "friend". After her accident, she got in the car with her "friend" but at some later point met with foul play.

 

[dee10134]

Depending on the height of the vehicle it could hit someone in a way that it would rupture the spleen and they could bleed out with minimal damage externally.

In the town where I grew up we had the one cop that was a walking/driving accident waiting to happen. If it could happen it happened to him. One night while chasing a perp he threw his billy club and missed the perp and knocked out the rear window in a vehicle. Things like this, along with wrecking more than one patrol car, finally got him suspended for a bit. He begged the owner of the car not to report it and that he would pay for the window, but it still got reported. Just because someone is in LE doesn't mean they are not human. It's possible a young guy with not a lot of experience in LE would panic if he hit someone. It's also possible that someone with many years on the force and close to retirement could also panic and think there goes my benefits. Am I saying that is what happened? No. But am I open to the possiblity? Yes

That scenario is what drove me away from WS for awhile because I absolutely got blasted for it. I have family and friends in LE and I don't automatically assume the worst of LE, but I also never just give someone a pass because they are LE. I look at all possible scenarios.

True. I am trying to look at the case from a logical perspective. What is statistically the most likely scenario...

I'm completely open to other scenarios and theories. The most important thing is to try to figure out what happened to Maura and bring peace to her family.

 

[dee10134]

(snip)

Her actions leading up to her disappearence are bizarre. I understand wanting to get away and be alone but from what I can tell that was not something she typically did and why would she do it then in her rickety car she was having all kinds of problems with - that points to desparation IMO. I wonder if she was pregnant. Reading the article I had a flash of the birth control pills and alcohol and wondered if she hadn't planned on trying to make herself mis-carry the baby instead of having to go through an abortion, telling her family, etc. In 2004 the morning after pills and 'abortion' pills were not as readily available as they are now. Perhaps she planned on staying in a secluded place for a few days and basically abuse her body in an attempt to lose the baby. It sounds crazy but woman do 'crazy' things when faced with situations like unwanted pregnancy. She was definitely preparing to go somewhere which surely did not work in her favor as far as LE is concerned. They too quickly thought of her as someone who wanted to vanish but after all this time, surely not.

FYI: Birth control pills will not make you miscarry. When you're on the pill, the hormones mimic pregnancy so your body doesn't release any eggs, hence eliminating the possibility of becoming pregnant. The hormones in the pill are the same as those a woman experiences while pregnant, and therefore don't make you miscarry.

 

[dee10134]

I've offered this theory several times but don't think anyone has picked up on it and maybe for good reason, maybe it's way off BUT my theory is that she refused the help of the guy who stopped because she wasn't traveling alone. With the amount of alcohol she purchased and the fact she was taking time off from school makes me think she might have had a romantic encounter thing planned and was followed in another vehicle by a "friend". After her accident, she got in the car with her "friend" but at some later point met with foul play.

Maybe she really didn't refuse help from the school bus driver................. Maybe she got into the bus with him............... I sure do hope LE THOROUGHLY investigated "Butch". Maybe he is their suspect and that's why they're so closed-lipped about the investigation.

 

[dee10134]

I really think that "Butch" should be a person of interest. His stories are conflicting and he was the last known person to have contact with Maura.

One plausible theory is that Maura did get into the bus with him (instead of his story that she refused his help) and that he did something to her in that A-frame house. It makes a lot of sense. His proximity to that A-frame house and the fact that the cadaver dogs hit in that house is just far too coincidental. This could have been a crime of opportunity and the opportunist very well could have been "Butch."

 

[gaia227]

FYI: Birth control pills will not make you miscarry. When you're on the pill, the hormones mimic pregnancy so your body doesn't release any eggs, hence eliminating the possibility of becoming pregnant. The hormones in the pill are the same as those a woman experiences while pregnant, and therefore don't make you miscarry.

I should have prefaced better. I have been on the pill for ten years and I know how it works but a lot of women don't. I don't know how many girls I have heard of taking two weeks worth of BC in an attempt to cause a miscarriage. A lot of women also think the morning after pill causes you to mis-carry when in actuality it disruptes the lining of the uterus so the egg cannot imbed and/or prevents you from releasing an egg at all.

 

[BethInAK]

I should have prefaced better. I have been on the pill for ten years and I know how it works but a lot of women don't. I don't know how many girls I have heard of taking two weeks worth of BC in an attempt to cause a miscarriage. A lot of women also think the morning after pill causes you to mis-carry when in actuality it disruptes the lining of the uterus so the egg cannot imbed and/or prevents you from releasing an egg at all.

Some folks think that a fertilized egg is a baby and therefore utilization of the pill (in certain cases like POP's which make uterus lining very thin and therefore unable to sustain a fertilized egg) and emergency contraception could be considered by them to be miscarriages I suppose.

 

[s_finch]

Maybe she really didn't refuse help from the school bus driver................. Maybe she got into the bus with him............... I sure do hope LE THOROUGHLY investigated "Butch". Maybe he is their suspect and that's why they're so closed-lipped about the investigation.

I've thought that out also but you would think LE would have been able to find something on "Butch", enough to search his yard thoroughly, check the drains, luminol testing, something....... seems to me like they never really considered Butch so that has to be fore 3 reasons 1) enough truly convincing evidence (that we aren't privy to) that he is innocent 2) sorry LE department 3) Butch has important friends

SOOO just assuming Butch is innocent why couldn't there have been a friend following her, someone she mistakenly trusted and was going off with, someone she didn't want anyone else to know about.....