I can see why she ran off the road on that turn! It is very sharp and I bet it was not lit up at all.
NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 7
- Thread starter Cubby
- Start date
- Status
I can see why she ran off the road on that turn! It is very sharp and I bet it was not lit up at all.
Sweet photos of Maura.
Well, I (for one) have not!
Afterall, I've seen up close and personal myself, how a little band of supposed intellects can get together to blacklist someone.
It happens all the time, actually.
I liked the closing Note to Mr. Renner, from a reader, (not moderator) Dec. 2009; who thanks him for the tireless work he did on the Amy M. case, and Krista H. case (signed Boy of the Water) apparently a fan of Mr. Renner's work. Often it's the voice of the minority we should be listening to, as oftentimes as in this case, the majority rule on someone is quite biased as they belong to the same "club"
I don't think trying to put down Mr. Renner personally is in any way helpful towards a finding more through free association and free speech what in the world happened to this young woman.
I've not seen where his Blog points fingers in any menacing way at all. Actually, when we read the entire Entries, we see that Mr. Renner has agreed
with the editors (under Suspect List)......and the discussion between them was resolved at that point, (later being resumed on other grounds however)......
Since he (the author) is not "banned" per se from Wikipedia or editing, I see no reason to find such fault with him overall.
A difference of opinion perhaps,..........but then, everyone has opinions. My husband (for instance) finds a lot of fault with writer Ann Rule, yet she writes prolifically about all manner of true crime cases, albeit with "a certain amount of creative license with the truth". Her books cuase us to examine a little more
closely, her more cavalier statements, as to whether they are factual or conjecture on her part.
Overall, unless someone is named as a suspect, I don't think we should "name names".....perhaps only initials as they do here.
But what does this have to do with the Maura Murray case anyway....
:fence:
I have mixed feelings about Mr. Renner. He does have to "market" his book, so some sensationalism is expected. I do like that he is looking into Maura's case though. It has been stagnant for a long time. Who knows? Maybe he'll come upon something, which will lead to finding what happened to her.
Leomoon80
Well-Known Member
I agree McSpy, it's been a long long road and many turns with this case. Too many unanswered questions for far too long.
Before you know it, cold cases turn into dead cases.
BTW: The photos posted by scoops are excellent, and make you have a real "feel" for the area. Being in the southwest, you tend to forget what wooded areas are like and the one with the house, you can't even see a house (yet it's the front yard)......quite amazing really to see such hidden views off a road.
Was that skull ever determined to be or not be anyone missing from this area?
Before you know it, cold cases turn into dead cases.
BTW: The photos posted by scoops are excellent, and make you have a real "feel" for the area. Being in the southwest, you tend to forget what wooded areas are like and the one with the house, you can't even see a house (yet it's the front yard)......quite amazing really to see such hidden views off a road.
Was that skull ever determined to be or not be anyone missing from this area?
Thanks LeoMoon
I check back daily for updates on the partial skull found and so far I haven't been able get any new information. Locals are buzzing about it in Littleton believing it could be Maura
McSpy,
I kid you not, that sharp turn actually pales in comparison to two that you encounter not long before it. I almost lost control of my little rental car on a sharp right curve as I was heading down Wild Ammonoosuc in the early evening hours when it was still light out.
OldSteve
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 4,946
- Reaction score
- 170
Enjoy armchair traveling along with you! Thanks! I can't imagine what it would have been like on a winter's late evening! I wonder what kind of sense of what MM was thinking/planning do you feel traveling that route....
It's strange, while I've always proclaimed I didn't think she was planing on losing herself in the snowy mountains, for reasons I cannot explain, I get a sense that she might have been thinking that as I follow her path along with you.... My sense is that she while she did not plan it at the onset of her trip, it might have come over her along the way.... the only thing to counter that feeling is that the tracking dog did not follow her scent into the woods...
So now I'm differing with myself...
In looking at the roads, perhaps MM simply decided to pull off the highway to stay overnight in Haverhill, and in that sense Haverhill was a destination of sorts.... but then why had she passed the motel and not checked into it.... driving through those mountainous roads at night in a car that's running right to reach ?
Below is from Mr Renner's blog posted today. If this is true then this may change some things like thinking that Maura had checked into a hotel first and left her liquor behind while she possibly went for something to eat or to meet someone. I'm betting that there is a lot of misinformation that people have been taking as fact all these years. I also find it surprising that if this info is true how come it took so long for someone to find this out? This is stuff that should have been posted years ago. Does anyone remember where it was first posted that there was no liquor found in the car? It may shed some light on how and who may have started this rumour.
"Thursday, July 28, 2011No alcohol missing.
Official word from Haverhill PD: all booze was accounted for. Vodka. Baileys. Wine. Maura left it all behind.
Like I said, little things have been mis-reported for years. Best to start from the ground up and see where it takes us."
"Thursday, July 28, 2011No alcohol missing.
Official word from Haverhill PD: all booze was accounted for. Vodka. Baileys. Wine. Maura left it all behind.
Like I said, little things have been mis-reported for years. Best to start from the ground up and see where it takes us."
Jane Birch
New Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2011
- Messages
- 123
- Reaction score
- 0
My understanding, though, is that one of the weird things about the accident is that Maura DIDN'T run off the road at the corner. She had her accident AFTER the curve. Again, I'll see if I can find an article that mentions that; a witness (most likely the school bus driver, since he was one of the only ones speaking until recently) commented how it was an odd place, given that a lot of minor accidents happen when people miss the turn.
Jane Birch
New Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2011
- Messages
- 123
- Reaction score
- 0
The Caledonian Record mentions it 7/1/04: "Scarinza also said when Murray left Massachusetts, she had with her a box of wine, and bottles of vodka, Kahlua and Bailey's Irish Cream.The box of wine, most of which had spilled, was found in the car. Some of the other bottles were not found." Still working backwards to see if I missed an earlier reference to it.
ETA: nope, according to articles on justiceforchandra.com and projectjason.org, July 1 is the earliest reference to the missing alcohol.
Thanks OldSteve,
I am leaning on believeing the same thing her father Fred does and that she was taking a short-cut through the white mountain area over to Bartlett. Searches on her computer according to police were also linked to the Bartlett area among other places (Bartlett is the area she vacationed at with family during summer months).
If you do a google map search or another map search, her route along wild ammonoosuc Rd. would eventually cut towards bartlett (although, I believe she would've had to make some late adjustments because the Wild Ammonoosuc doesn't directly run into Bartlett, I don't believe.
She more than likely wasn't looking for food or lodging as a reason to turn where she did because there are several restaurants (Subway, McDonalds I think) right at the point you make the turn from the 302 into the white mountains) once you make that turn and start heading east on Wild Ammoonoosuc, All you head into are thick woods. But eventually the Wild Ammonoosuc winds and turns into some possible routes that would get her in the bartlett area
IMG_9790 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
I don't know about you guys and gals, but as someone that has followed this case for a long time and heard the story of Maura a ton. I had always developed a picture in my mind concerning that Thursday night in which she had a breakdown at work and had to be escorted back to her dorm by her supervisor. I always pictured this dramatic scene where the supervisor had to walk and possibly hold Maura up as they left her security post and went to her dorm. But upon visiting the campus, I came to the realization that there likely wasn't much time for a big scene like that.
In this photo, I am literally standing near the exit of the Mellville Dorm in which Maura worked the desk at and I am looking at her dorm (Kennedy). The walk could'nt be more than 15-20 steps. ... Just one of those things that when you hear a story told so often and for so long, you develop a picture that may or may not be accurate.
I don't know about you guys and gals, but as someone that has followed this case for a long time and heard the story of Maura a ton. I had always developed a picture in my mind concerning that Thursday night in which she had a breakdown at work and had to be escorted back to her dorm by her supervisor. I always pictured this dramatic scene where the supervisor had to walk and possibly hold Maura up as they left her security post and went to her dorm. But upon visiting the campus, I came to the realization that there likely wasn't much time for a big scene like that.
In this photo, I am literally standing near the exit of the Mellville Dorm in which Maura worked the desk at and I am looking at her dorm (Kennedy). The walk could'nt be more than 15-20 steps. ... Just one of those things that when you hear a story told so often and for so long, you develop a picture that may or may not be accurate.
IMG_9824 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Here is another view from Maura's wreck site. This time I am facing west right in the spot that Maura's car came to a stop at. On the right you can see the Westman's house. Quite honestly, that would've been the first place I turned to for help that night as opposed to taking chances with a passerby in a vehicle.
Her wreck was just after 7 p.m. and the Westman's were home that night, I would assume they had lights on in their house.
Here is another view from Maura's wreck site. This time I am facing west right in the spot that Maura's car came to a stop at. On the right you can see the Westman's house. Quite honestly, that would've been the first place I turned to for help that night as opposed to taking chances with a passerby in a vehicle.
Her wreck was just after 7 p.m. and the Westman's were home that night, I would assume they had lights on in their house.
IMG_9825 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Here is a new angle from the Maura wreck.
I am actually standing in the road right next to a driveway of a house for sale that sits right behind the Westmans. If you look hard enough, you can see the tree with the blue ribbon as well as the white from the westman's house (right). Chances are very good that the occupants of this house also could see Maura's car that night, just not as well as the Westmans.
Here is a new angle from the Maura wreck.
I am actually standing in the road right next to a driveway of a house for sale that sits right behind the Westmans. If you look hard enough, you can see the tree with the blue ribbon as well as the white from the westman's house (right). Chances are very good that the occupants of this house also could see Maura's car that night, just not as well as the Westmans.
IMG_9833 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
As some speculate, Maura may have taken off on foot from her accident scene, but if she had ducked into the woods to her left (assuming she continued east down Wild Ammonoosuc Rd.) She would've had to navigate this type of terrain which runs continuously down Wild Ammonoosuc Rd. There is a little strip of woods and then beyond that is a hill that heads down into the stream and then more woods on the other side. I can only imagine what that would be like trying to cross in darkness in February.
As some speculate, Maura may have taken off on foot from her accident scene, but if she had ducked into the woods to her left (assuming she continued east down Wild Ammonoosuc Rd.) She would've had to navigate this type of terrain which runs continuously down Wild Ammonoosuc Rd. There is a little strip of woods and then beyond that is a hill that heads down into the stream and then more woods on the other side. I can only imagine what that would be like trying to cross in darkness in February.
OldSteve
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 4,946
- Reaction score
- 170
One thing I've never heard mentioned, and hoping that Scoops may have checked out, if MM did not have the crash, what would it have been like to travel east on Wild Ammoonoosuc using it as a short cut.... even in the summer it seems it would be lonely - but on a winter's night it sounds most dangerous?
OldSteve
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 4,946
- Reaction score
- 170
To best of my knowledge an inventory of MM's car was never released...
"Father sues for records"
"seeking the release of information tied to the investigation, such as accident reports; an inventory of items taken from her car; a copy of his daughter's computer hard drive; and a surveillance tape from a liquor store where she made a purchase"
http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20051229-NEWS-312299962?cid=sitesearch
So now LE is saying all the liquor was in the car? I don't get it...
CanManEh
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,827
- Reaction score
- 67
Le has been doing everything they can or so it seems to NOT help after so long why not give the parents the files why not help them if nothing else maybe they can do as they did classify this as a cold case and let the parents do what they think is best hire P.Is and the LE can work on more important stuff or so it seem to them such as running red lights and J walking . Im not one to jump all over the LE normally but this i know for sure weather or not they hurt this case is debatiblle but did they help it Hell no..
OldSteve,
I did continue east about 3 1/2 to 4 more miles. I was in hopes of arriving to the same area that the contractor supposedly saw maura running and then ducking into the woods at.
Not much to note. the left side of Wild Ammoonoosuc as you are heading east features a lot less houses and more woods that lead to a long-flowing stream (it's probably the wild ammonoosuc river, I just don't know what to call it for sure so I will say stream). There are several points on the left side, though, that you can actually turn into (make-shift paths) and get out of your car and look in the woods and behind to the flowing stream
As I was driving I did come across a house on the left that was down a hill (about 2 miles from Maura's wreck) and it just happened that there were about 20-30 people out having a cookout at this property, I could see them in an open area. I didn't stop to talk to any of them however, but I wonder how many of them lived around the area.
On the right side of the road, there are more houses, most above the road as the houses on the right sit off a bit from the road with many of them on top of hills. They have make-shift driveways as well that you either drive straight up or drive up and curve around to get to the houses.
There are plenty of houses though, Maura had opportunites to get help ... Maybe she did attempt to go to a house and maybe it was the wrong one to seek help from.
I stopped after about 3 1/2 to 4 miles because I was losing daylight and wanted to get back to near the accident scene. I know Maura could've continued and eventually (we are talking like 20 miles or more down the same long windy road) she would've ended up on highway 116 and near franconia which she could then get back on the 302 and head towards bartlett, which was an area she searched directions for on her computer the night before she went missing.
gnomony
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Messages
- 397
- Reaction score
- 348
I keep reading references to a computer [SIC] search for Bartlett. IIRC, she called a number on her phone to get info about a condo in Bartlett (as she did for info about Stowe). She didn't use her computer. The computer Mapquest search was for directions to Burlington, IIRC. Two reasons this distinction is important:
1) If she had a Mapquest map from her point of origin to Bartlett, it is unlikely she would have taken the route she did (if, indeed, she was on her way to Bartlett).
2) No one ever posts anything about Burlington, yet a Mapquest search for driving directions to Burlington seems to prove that, for a moment at least, she a tentative plan to drive there. Anyone have any idea what was in Burlington for her?
- Status