NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 7

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
OldSteve said:
Agree - in a way we are all "profiting" from Maura's tragedy... some make money, some past the time of day away thinking about her's and other cases...
Is this a bad thing or a good thing? I feel publicity/attention to a cold case is really a good thing!
Click to expand...

I think there is a huge difference in profiting to put money in your own pocket and spending some of your day posting theories .
 
Jane Birch said:

I for one would be less critical of Mr. Renner if so many of his supposed facts weren't patently incorrect.

To answer your question (eek! welcome wagon!) OldSteve, my theories of what happened to Maura are all informed by the knowledge that I have far less information than people working on the case: police, private investigators, her family. However, I will say that I don't believe Maura intended to run away and start a new life. Beyond that, I choose not to speculate publicly.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on this? If Mr. Renner's facts are wrong––please explain why they are wrong.

I also agree that Maura did not take off to start a new life. I would be very surprised if she showed up at some point.
 
I just spent the last few days visiting, Hadley, UMASS and woodsville, NH for the first time.

I took a ton of pictures of everything related to Maura Murray, maybe I will figure out how to post some soon.

I gained some new perspective, but at the same time, I didn't learn a whole lot of new information (I was mostly wanting to take photos and provide a story that way as opposed to doing interviews and such)

I will post some of my thoughts on my trip in a few days. I will say I do agree with Fred Murray, I think his daughter was intending on heading for Bartlett that night. She definitely was not searching for a place to eat.
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65640533@N07/5975956445/

Here is a link to my first photo. (Click on where it says Flickr Videos and it will open up)

This is the infamous A-Framed House talked about concerning a potential spot Maura may have been taken too. My understanding is that search dogs hit on a scent in this house of possible human remains, but I don't believe Police have ever tied it to Maura Murray.

This house is southwest from where Maura wrecked. It is off of french pond road on a street called valley. I believe it is abandoned (It looks like it hasn't been lived in in quite awhile)

I have other photos of this house from other angles, but this house definitely looks like a good place for a haunted house story, just not sure how it would be connected to Maura.
 
IMG_9838 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


wreck site view (Click on Flickr - Photo Sharing at top of box to open up)

Here is last photo for tonight that i will upload.

I am literally standing in the spot that Maura's car ended up at and I am facing east towards what use to be Butch Atwood's driveway and house (on left). There are actually two houses on the right, very close in proximity to where Maura's car would've ended up. One is sort of tucked back from the road, the other is not.
 
This is the infamous A-Framed House talked about concerning a potential spot Maura may have been taken too. My understanding is that search dogs hit on a scent in this house of possible human remains said:
Thanks for all your hard work! I'm not sure, but I seem to recall reading something about the scent in this abandoned house being attributed to old menstrual blood that had been in a clothes hamper back when somebody used to live there.

I have absolutley no idea how anybody could have come to this conclusion, and I don't remember whether or not that was the official conclusion from the investigators, but I know it's something that I read.

Maybe they never tied the scent to Maura, but I don't see how they could rule it out, either.

ETA: Not to get too graphic at all, but I kind of have to for this part. I've always hoped that cadaver dogs would be cross trained to be able to distinguish scents like menstrual blood from a decomposing body, and from whatever I read about this building, it seems that they somehow thought they had done that in this case. However, while watching the Casey Anthony trial, I was surprised to hear one of the experts testify that, along with rags that have been kept in human chest cavities, one of the items they use to train cadaver dogs is placenta! As soon as I heard this I began to wonder how handlers would know the difference between menstrual blood and a dead body if their dogs are trained to hit on placenta. Apparently they are cross-trained NOT to hit on rotting meat from animals and not to hit on any other scent but human remains AND placenta. So, it sounded like the dogs would give the same alert. Really makes me curious about how anyone figured that this was from a laundry hamper. Having said all this, I'm SURE there's an explanation and that if the dog trainer had been asked to elaborate on the placenta he might have gone into detail about how they rule out menstrual blood, because I'm SURE it comes up. If they don't have a way to distinguish between the two, they're in for a lot of problems, so who knows....
Click to expand...
 
This is one of the true times we can actually say that we know the awnser to that from watching the csi's and CSI.ny all the cop shows ..they would have to take what ever material the menstral blood was on and look at it under the microscope as i assume there are some different secretions and different cells or whatever in order for a lab to determine that yes it was infact menstral...mind you menstral or non menstral , blood is blood and with that is dna so that coulda been matched up quote quickly , When i was reading about the dogs and what they know and dont .i think its all in the training and the breed certin ones are better for getting the smell even in like 1o feel of water where some may need that actuall peoce of clothing of the person but what i thought of first is that they must beable to be trained to just do that one thing as they train them to only hit on human bones and not animal boned and they do that pretty good..
 
goldiegirl said:
Thanks for all your hard work! I'm not sure, but I seem to recall reading something about the scent in this abandoned house being attributed to old menstrual blood that had been in a clothes hamper back when somebody used to live there.

I have absolutley no idea how anybody could have come to this conclusion, and I don't remember whether or not that was the official conclusion from the investigators, but I know it's something that I read.

Maybe they never tied the scent to Maura, but I don't see how they could rule it out, either.

ETA: Not to get too graphic at all, but I kind of have to for this part. I've always hoped that cadaver dogs would be cross trained to be able to distinguish scents like menstrual blood from a decomposing body, and from whatever I read about this building, it seems that they somehow thought they had done that in this case. However, while watching the Casey Anthony trial, I was surprised to hear one of the experts testify that, along with rags that have been kept in human chest cavities, one of the items they use to train cadaver dogs is placenta! As soon as I heard this I began to wonder how handlers would know the difference between menstrual blood and a dead body if their dogs are trained to hit on placenta. Apparently they are cross-trained NOT to hit on rotting meat from animals and not to hit on any other scent but human remains AND placenta. So, it sounded like the dogs would give the same alert. Really makes me curious about how anyone figured that this was from a laundry hamper. Having said all this, I'm SURE there's an explanation and that if the dog trainer had been asked to elaborate on the placenta he might have gone into detail about how they rule out menstrual blood, because I'm SURE it comes up. If they don't have a way to distinguish between the two, they're in for a lot of problems, so who knows....
Click to expand...

thanks Goldiegirl, I crammed a lot into this past weekend when it came to this case. Hope I can provide some perspective with photos and descriptions.

Anyway back to the A-Frame house. One issue I have with it, is that it is not really all that close to Maura's wreck site, unless you can cut through the woods and get there. You have to trek back west to French Pond Road and then Valley street is way down French Pond Road literally in the middle of nowhere. I can only come to the conclusion that this house was searched because of how creepy it is. I don't see any other connection to why Maura would've ended up there.
 
scoops said:
thanks Goldiegirl, I crammed a lot into this past weekend when it came to this case. Hope I can provide some perspective with photos and descriptions.

Anyway back to the A-Frame house. One issue I have with it, is that it is not really all that close to Maura's wreck site, unless you can cut through the woods and get there. You have to trek back west to French Pond Road and then Valley street is way down French Pond Road literally in the middle of nowhere. I can only come to the conclusion that this house was searched because of how creepy it is. I don't see any other connection to why Maura would've ended up there.
Click to expand...

Valley road also connects to Wild Ammonoosuc Rd via Swiftwater Circle. It's a much shorter distance to the A-frame from the crash scene; about 1 mile vs. 3.1 miles using French Pond Rd. The grade is steep, narrow and a bit winding on the east entrance of Swiftwater Circle. It's a little un-nerving driving it in winter conditions. The west side of Swiftwater Circle is a more level incling slope to Valley Road. So, no, it's not really "in the middle of nowhere" and is very accessible.
 
Lots of good photos Scoops!
Touching to see the blue ribbon FM last left - the ribbon looks very recent too!
 
gnomony said:
I'm guessing that any pond would have been frozen over with very thick ice.
Click to expand...

Deleted the post you are referring to, as to much speculation on my part... but "Kathleen Murray found a pair of white, women's underwear lying on the snow near French Pond Road in Haverhill, Thursday."

You can read more about this at an old board that has lots of info from early on in this case. I'm going to re-read it as so much info was posted at time when the case not as cold as today.... I always found "peripeteia" thoughts and theories to be spot-on. Wow - now she's one person I wish would write a book!

http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2390

also:
http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html
 
OldSteve said:
Deleted the post you are referring to, as to much speculation on my part... but "Kathleen Murray found a pair of white, women's underwear lying on the snow near French Pond Road in Haverhill, Thursday."

You can read more about this at an old board that has lots of info from early on in this case. I'm going to re-read it as so much info was posted at time when the case not as cold as today.... I always found "peripeteia" thoughts and theories to be spot-on. Wow - now she's one person I wish would write a book!

http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2390

also:
http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html
Click to expand...

Didn't they say somewhere that they decided the underwear wasn't linked to Maura?

About the house, I'm not saying it was linked to Maura at all, but I was just curious about the process of how they definitively ruled it out. I don't know how/why she would have ended up there, either, but I guess it would be just as likely as anywhere else at this point. She has to be somewhere, and if someone else did pick her up and harm her, an old, abandoned structure in the area seems like as good a place as any to take her. I have no specific theories involving the house, but I was just trying to see whether or not we could really rule it out.
 
I Care said:
Valley road also connects to Wild Ammonoosuc Rd via Swiftwater Circle. It's a much shorter distance to the A-frame from the crash scene; about 1 mile vs. 3.1 miles using French Pond Rd. The grade is steep, narrow and a bit winding on the east entrance of Swiftwater Circle. It's a little un-nerving driving it in winter conditions. The west side of Swiftwater Circle is a more level incling slope to Valley Road. So, no, it's not really "in the middle of nowhere" and is very accessible.
Click to expand...

I Care

Thanks for the info, I was in no way familiar with the area and only was able to find valley road by trekking back to french Pond Road. I remember when I finally ran into Valley Road, thinking that this was way off the beaten path from Maura's wreck site. But once I found the A-Frame house, I didn't continue driving down Valley to see where it went. Ironically, as spooky as this A-Frame house is, there is an empty baseball field and fully functioning tennis courts right across the street from the house which is pretty contrasting when you see this A-Frame house up close. The house itself looks like it is about to be swallowed in by the woods with how tall the grass is getting. As I was walking around, I literally did feel like I was in the middle of nowhere. Most houses on valley road were hidden behind trees and make-shift paths for driveways. It was spooky just finding a place to turn my car around at.
 
IMG_9823 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I was standing on Bradley Hill Road taking this picture of the Westman's Weathered Barn musicial instrument antique store. Is it possible that Maura cut right onto Bradley Hill Road instead of continuing East?
 
McSpy said:
True, but maybe the perp used an ax to cut a hole.
Click to expand...

Consider this as well: there were ice fishing shanties/shacks. And when there's ice fishing, there's holes in the ice. A perpetrator would not necessarily have to cut his or her own hole into the ice. They were already there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 188 more.
Total: 2,024 (members: 189, guests: 1,835)

Online statistics

Members online
189
Guests online
1,835
Total visitors
2,024
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
600,866
Messages
18,114,878
Members
230,991
Latest member
DeeKay
Back
Top