NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[McSpy]

I just do not see Maura taking her own life that night. If she did kill herself, and she did do it by climbing a mountain with booze to freeze to death, it would have to be during the daylight hours, IMO. I get that the crash in NH would've put a wrench in her plans but it was so dark outside that night, she would've been nearly blind trying to go up the mountain. It doesn't make any sense that she would start scaling a 4000 ft. mountain in the middle of the night, even if she was suicidal. At -7 degree low temp that night (at regular altitude, let alone on a mountain), she would not have made it very far at all and would've had to get a ride to even make it to one of the mountains to begin with.

So she would've had to get a ride that night, reach one of the 4000' mountains, and it's still dark by the time she reaches her destination - where did she stay that night? She didn't have much cash on her, and her cards were not used. People who kill themselves usually try to make it as painless as possible, I don't know why Maura would want to spend her last few minutes in terror blindly climbing up a mountain in the middle of the night. It's possible, I guess.

There's also the question of what, if any, alcohol did she even take from the car? She bought stuff to make White Russians, was she mixing herself drinks on a mountain somewhere on a suicide mission? Was all the booze in the car and "accounted for"? That part is unclear.

I still think there are too many things that don't make sense in the suicide theory. She would've had to have been absolutely bound and determined to kill herself, with total tunnel vision that nothing, no matter what, was going to stop her.

Maybe Maura wanted to make people think she killed herself? Maybe she never had any intention of going to the mountains and was leaving a false trail?

In any case, I agree that all of the mountains she searched for on the internet should be thoroughly checked for a potential body. There is a chance Maura is on one of them - but IMO, just a chance.

I agree. She wouldn't be able to see the trail. There are no lights. Also, she didn't have the proper shoes to even get started. IIRC, there was snow on the ground. Climbing a snowy trail is a lot of work. Just getting to the trail will wear one out. She left her gloves in the car and if she brought the bottles of alcohol, they would have been clanging on her every move. Supposedly, it was only 32 degrees that night. It was warm for February, so I think she could have got far down the road, if she didn't accept a ride.

On another thought, didn't she bring her running gear with her and it was found in the Saturn? If this is true, then why did she bring it if she was suicidal? JMO

 

[scoops]

I agree. She wouldn't be able to see the trail. There are no lights. Also, she didn't have the proper shoes to even get started. IIRC, there was snow on the ground. Climbing a snowy trail is a lot of work. Just getting to the trail will wear one out. She left her gloves in the car and if she brought the bottles of alcohol, they would have been clanging on her every move. Supposedly, it was only 32 degrees that night. It was warm for February, so I think she could have got far down the road, if she didn't accept a ride.

On another thought, didn't she bring her running gear with her and it was found in the Saturn? If this is true, then why did she bring it if she was suicidal? JMO

Besides whatever she had on, her running gear was the only clothes she brought. I have a problem with that if we are to assume she was taking a one week vacation or starting a new life.

Coupled with the fact that she didn't even take a change of clothes with her when she fled her car.

Again her second wreck was likely unplanned. And so her reaction and decision making after she knew police were underway is really hard for anyone to predict evidence or no evidence. She was either scared out of her mind, or frankly, she may not have given two craps either.

I still contend she was mountain bound after staying the night in a hotel nearby a hiking trail/mountain with the caveat being that she didn't plan that second wreck.

But admit, not sure if she would follow suit with plan after the second wreck, or even become more drastic and find another means to end her life and accelerate the process.

I agree, she could've made it pretty far on foot considering she was a very athletic long-winded girl (state cross country champ)

She could've drank herself to death in the woods somewhere as well. We don't know her state when she had the wreck or if she was already intoxicated.

 

[goldiegirl]

Besides whatever she had on, her running gear was the only clothes she brought. I have a problem with that if we are to assume she was taking a one week vacation or starting a new life.

Coupled with the fact that she didn't even take a change of clothes with her when she fled her car.

Again her second wreck was likely unplanned. And so her reaction and decision making after she knew police were underway is really hard for anyone to predict evidence or no evidence. She was either scared out of her mind, or frankly, she may not have given two craps either.

I still contend she was mountain bound after staying the night in a hotel nearby a hiking trail/mountain with the caveat being that she didn't plan that second wreck.

But admit, not sure if she would follow suit with plan after the second wreck, or even become more drastic and find another means to end her life and accelerate the process.

I agree, she could've made it pretty far on foot considering she was a very athletic long-winded girl (state cross country champ)

She could've drank herself to death in the woods somewhere as well. We don't know her state when she had the wreck or if she was already intoxicated.

That's a good point about her not having more clothing or supplies. To be honest, I've never thought of that before.

If, as mentioned previously, she did get a ride from someone and nothing sinister happened and he/she just dropped her off somewhere, I would think that person would come forward by now with that information, unless somehow he/she isn't from that area and never heard that someone of that description went missing.

 

[AWOLNATION]

That's a good point about her not having more clothing or supplies. To be honest, I've never thought of that before.

If, as mentioned previously, she did get a ride from someone and nothing sinister happened and he/she just dropped her off somewhere, I would think that person would come forward by now with that information, unless somehow he/she isn't from that area and never heard that someone of that description went missing.

I really think the family/friends/and volunteers need to do a wider canvas and post more fliers asking if anyone saw her or had given a ride to someone on or around the date of the crash... The reason I say it is because I lived just over the border in Maine and I never heard of this case until 2 years ago, just didn't even know there was an episode of disappeared featuring her because my cable provider didn't have investigation discovery in their line up. I think some solid footwork from volunteers to spread the info through the northeast would be a big benefit. Get more local newspapers and newstations to broadcast this case. I believe there are a lot of people living in NH, VT, ME, MA, that may never hear of this. I've personally gone to Facebook of newstations, newspapers, travel/local pages, and anything that you can post on the wall of a popular sites and posted her missing flier and asked if anyone had seen or given a ride to someone around that time... Footwork, footwork, and more footwork I think will generate tips.

- This is AWOLNATION

 

[Pisces_Sun]

I really think the family/friends/and volunteers need to do a wider canvas and post more fliers asking if anyone saw her or had given a ride to someone on or around the date of the crash... The reason I say it is because I lived just over the border in Maine and I never heard of this case until 2 years ago, just didn't even know there was an episode of disappeared featuring her because my cable provider didn't have investigation discovery in their line up. I think some solid footwork from volunteers to spread the info through the northeast would be a big benefit. Get more local newspapers and newstations to broadcast this case. I believe there are a lot of people living in NH, VT, ME, MA, that may never hear of this. I've personally gone to Facebook of newstations, newspapers, travel/local pages, and anything that you can post on the wall of a popular sites and posted her missing flier and asked if anyone had seen or given a ride to someone around that time... Footwork, footwork, and more footwork I think will generate tips.

- This is AWOLNATION

ITA agree with this. They need to make signs. Large print flyers about Maura with to-the-point information, the words "Missing" and "Reward", and a contact phone #, then glue those onto large FLORESCENT poster boards and put them on sign posts in busy intersections, and around neighborhoods - places where LOTS of people will see them. Do footwork, hand out smaller flyers, and ASK AROUND.

This is how I ended up finding my cat...I can't tell you how many people called in with tips that they thought they had seen my cat or how many people wanted to help me find a missing pet, let alone a person. Missing pet advocates will tell you that 90%+ of missing pets that are found, are found because of the posters. It's the only way to alert other people that something is wrong and to get them thinking "Do I know anything about this?".

I'm not sure what the family's financial situation is, but renting a billboard for Maura wouldn't be a bad idea. Hell, I'd even be up in Canada getting the word out and putting up flyers even though the chances of her being there are slim.

Here's the site that helped me design the posters which found my cat and garnered a LOT of attention in just a few days of being out: http://www.missingpetpartnership.org/recovery-posters.php

The tips they give about making recovery posters are amazing. These signs are much more eye-catching than the typical missing persons flyers you might see.

 

[McSpy]

Besides whatever she had on, her running gear was the only clothes she brought. I have a problem with that if we are to assume she was taking a one week vacation or starting a new life.

Coupled with the fact that she didn't even take a change of clothes with her when she fled her car.

Again her second wreck was likely unplanned. And so her reaction and decision making after she knew police were underway is really hard for anyone to predict evidence or no evidence. She was either scared out of her mind, or frankly, she may not have given two craps either.

I still contend she was mountain bound after staying the night in a hotel nearby a hiking trail/mountain with the caveat being that she didn't plan that second wreck.

But admit, not sure if she would follow suit with plan after the second wreck, or even become more drastic and find another means to end her life and accelerate the process.

I agree, she could've made it pretty far on foot considering she was a very athletic long-winded girl (state cross country champ)

She could've drank herself to death in the woods somewhere as well. We don't know her state when she had the wreck or if she was already intoxicated.

BBM

Hmmm, she didn't pack anything else? No underwear? Did she bring toothpaste and brush or a toiletry kit?

 

[Pisces_Sun]

BBM

Hmmm, she didn't pack anything else? No underwear? Did she bring toothpaste and brush or a toiletry kit?

Yes, it appears as though she did: http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-was-in-mauras-car.html

http://kunhardtphoto.com/missingmaura

 

[McSpy]

I really think the family/friends/and volunteers need to do a wider canvas and post more fliers asking if anyone saw her or had given a ride to someone on or around the date of the crash... The reason I say it is because I lived just over the border in Maine and I never heard of this case until 2 years ago, just didn't even know there was an episode of disappeared featuring her because my cable provider didn't have investigation discovery in their line up. I think some solid footwork from volunteers to spread the info through the northeast would be a big benefit. Get more local newspapers and newstations to broadcast this case. I believe there are a lot of people living in NH, VT, ME, MA, that may never hear of this. I've personally gone to Facebook of newstations, newspapers, travel/local pages, and anything that you can post on the wall of a popular sites and posted her missing flier and asked if anyone had seen or given a ride to someone around that time... Footwork, footwork, and more footwork I think will generate tips.

- This is AWOLNATION

Posting about her backpack, cellphone and alcohol bottles on bulletin boards around the area for hikers to see may help. Someone may have come upon these items in the past or they may find them in the future. It can't hurt to get the word out. If someone came upon any of these items, it could pin point her whereabouts or could at least provide a lead to where she was at . . . .

JMO

 

[Pisces_Sun]

Renner claims on his blog that all of Maura's alcohol bottles were not only accounted for, but that every single alcohol container was left in Maura's car. Comments on the article seemed skeptical, but Renner insisted that the alcohol bottles were all in Maura's car. Has this ever been verified by someone other than Renner?

 

[scoops]

That's a good point about her not having more clothing or supplies. To be honest, I've never thought of that before.

If, as mentioned previously, she did get a ride from someone and nothing sinister happened and he/she just dropped her off somewhere, I would think that person would come forward by now with that information, unless somehow he/she isn't from that area and never heard that someone of that description went missing.

I definitely don't rule out the possibility that she got a ride from someone and that person has never come forward because they never have heard about the maura murray case.

I visited both amherst and the new hampshire area where maura went missing last summer and I can say pretty confidently that the maura murray case is not that well known currently.


In amherst, I went to the hotel her father had stayed at that Saturday night and talked to the hotel manager (who ironically began working at the hotel in Feb of 2004) and she had no clue who maura murray was or what the case was about.

I talked to management at amherst brew co. and they didn't know maura murray or the maura murray case from adam


In fact no one in amherst that I talked to (I was there for two days) knew anything about the case.

Towards the accident site, I talked to several hotel managers in the immediate area and they did know about the case, but they didn't know names or any specifics they just referred to it as "that girl that went missing"


In other words, a good samaratin could've just helped a stranded motorist that night in Feb and very easily could've forgotten about it a few weeks later or not put any significance in the good deed at the time. And they may not know about the disappeared episode or all the pleading done by the murray family for answers.

 

[scoops]

Yes, it appears as though she did: http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-was-in-mauras-car.html

http://kunhardtphoto.com/missingmaura

Yes that is a display photo.

Everything you see in that photo is everything maura had with her for her trip.

there is no more than one change of clothing and a small toiletry kit

 

[scoops]

Renner claims on his blog that all of Maura's alcohol bottles were not only accounted for, but that every single alcohol container was left in Maura's car. Comments on the article seemed skeptical, but Renner insisted that the alcohol bottles were all in Maura's car. Has this ever been verified by someone other than Renner?

no, not even by Renner when called out on it.

The official police accident report in which the responding officer accounts for what he actually saw when he approached maura's car mentions the box of spilled franzia wine as well as seeing a red liquid on both the driver's side door and driver's side ceiling. I am pretty sure he would've noted a bottle of vodka, bottle of Bailey's and a bottle of Kahlua if they were still there.

From the five-part series done on the maura murray case by Maribeth Conway (a journalist who had access to both fred murray and family as well as the actual police officers who dealt with the murray case) had this to say in her article

"the box (of franzia wine) was damaged, perhaps in the accident, and reddish spots resembling wine were found on the road, according to investigator John Healy. Sgt. Smith (responding officer who dealt with maura's car) later recovered a coke bottle that contained a "red liquid" with a strong alcoholic odor. None of the other bottles of alcohol that maura had bought in amherst were found in the car."

 

[McSpy]

no, not even by Renner when called out on it.

The official police accident report in which the responding officer accounts for what he actually saw when he approached maura's car mentions the box of spilled franzia wine as well as seeing a red liquid on both the driver's side door and driver's side ceiling. I am pretty sure he would've noted a bottle of vodka, bottle of Bailey's and a bottle of Kahlua if they were still there.

From the five-part series done on the maura murray case by Maribeth Conway (a journalist who had access to both fred murray and family as well as the actual police officers who dealt with the murray case) had this to say in her article

"the box (of franzia wine) was damaged, perhaps in the accident, and reddish spots resembling wine were found on the road, according to investigator John Healy. Sgt. Smith (responding officer who dealt with maura's car) later recovered a coke bottle that contained a "red liquid" with a strong alcoholic odor. None of the other bottles of alcohol that maura had bought in amherst were found in the car."

BBM

Scoops, I'm not so sure they would be in the accident report, because those alcohol bottles were supposedly in her trunk. The police officer had no need to go into the trunk at that time. I believe they didn't look into the trunk until she was obviously missing, which was after Fred found out about the accident and became frantic after finding out that Maura was missing. Before that, IMO, LE thought she took off for while and would turn up the next day or so. They had no idea she would disappear for years. JMO

 

[scoops]

BBM

Scoops, I'm not so sure they would be in the accident report, because those alcohol bottles were supposedly in her trunk. The police officer had no need to go into the trunk at that time. I believe they didn't look into the trunk until she was obviously missing, which was after Fred found out about the accident and became frantic after finding out that Maura was missing. Before that, IMO, LE thought she took off for while and would turn up the next day or so. They had no idea she would disappear for years. JMO

I don't know how anyone would know where maura kept those bottles.

But one point to note is that james visited the haverhill police in 2011 and got an officer (not one of maura's investigating officers) to look up some information concerning the alcohol to which the officer told james yep its all been accounted for.

I will trust that a reporter doing stories about the maura murray case back in the days that the case was (actually being investigated) would be privy to a little more reliable information than James.

I have gone over the five part series of stories done in the maura murray case dozens of times and have found the details in it to be quite consistent and accurate with what is known about the case. And she clearly states in her work that the bottles were missing.

 

[Kiln Wood]

ITA agree with this. They need to make signs. Large print flyers about Maura with to-the-point information, the words "Missing" and "Reward", and a contact phone #, then glue those onto large FLORESCENT poster boards and put them on sign posts in busy intersections, and around neighborhoods - places where LOTS of people will see them. Do footwork, hand out smaller flyers, and ASK AROUND.

This is how I ended up finding my cat...I can't tell you how many people called in with tips that they thought they had seen my cat or how many people wanted to help me find a missing pet, let alone a person. Missing pet advocates will tell you that 90%+ of missing pets that are found, are found because of the posters. It's the only way to alert other people that something is wrong and to get them thinking "Do I know anything about this?".

I'm not sure what the family's financial situation is, but renting a billboard for Maura wouldn't be a bad idea. Hell, I'd even be up in Canada getting the word out and putting up flyers even though the chances of her being there are slim.

Here's the site that helped me design the posters which found my cat and garnered a LOT of attention in just a few days of being out: http://www.missingpetpartnership.org/recovery-posters.php

The tips they give about making recovery posters are amazing. These signs are much more eye-catching than the typical missing persons flyers you might see.

BBM

Good suggestion and as I read it, I'm wondering if you are familiar with Haverhill, New Hampshire? Somehow or another "busy intersections, and around neighborhoods" doesn't ring a bell for me when it comes to Haverhill, New Hampshire.....

 

[goldiegirl]

I definitely don't rule out the possibility that she got a ride from someone and that person has never come forward because they never have heard about the maura murray case.

I visited both amherst and the new hampshire area where maura went missing last summer and I can say pretty confidently that the maura murray case is not that well known currently.


In amherst, I went to the hotel her father had stayed at that Saturday night and talked to the hotel manager (who ironically began working at the hotel in Feb of 2004) and she had no clue who maura murray was or what the case was about.

I talked to management at amherst brew co. and they didn't know maura murray or the maura murray case from adam


In fact no one in amherst that I talked to (I was there for two days) knew anything about the case.

Towards the accident site, I talked to several hotel managers in the immediate area and they did know about the case, but they didn't know names or any specifics they just referred to it as "that girl that went missing"


In other words, a good samaratin could've just helped a stranded motorist that night in Feb and very easily could've forgotten about it a few weeks later or not put any significance in the good deed at the time. And they may not know about the disappeared episode or all the pleading done by the murray family for answers.

Scoops, that's crazy and sad. But you know what? When I really think about it I guess I'm not all that surprised.

It's funny (not really) when I take myself for example. I spend countless hours reading about specific missing persons cases that aren't even in my area, and I know as much as I can about them and always tell myself to keep an eye out for the MP, even though chances are very remote they'll even be in my state.

At the same time, I lived right in the area where Lindsey Baum went missing (and just moved back here a month ago after three yrs in Texas), and I can tell you that for some reason that's just kind of how it is right in the immediate area. The overwhelming majority of people here I know don't even know Lindsay Baum's name, and most never even heard of a missing girl. Also, although flyers have been out at businesses for years, many people don't pay attention to them anymore and wouldn't know her if she came walking down the street.

It seems like these things are highly publicized in the area at first, then people kind of just move on with their lives. Meanwhile, there are people across the country who know more about the case and could probably spot the missing person more easily than locals.

It's sad but true, I've noticed, both here and in Houston. When you live right there it's just not something you think about every day, and I don't know why. Then on WS you imagine the towns where a MP is from and you assume everyone knows about it and talks about it all the time, and sadly that never really seems to be true.

 

[Pisces_Sun]

BBM

Good suggestion and as I read it, I'm wondering if you are familiar with Haverhill, New Hampshire? Somehow or another "busy intersections, and around neighborhoods" doesn't ring a bell for me when it comes to Haverhill, New Hampshire.....

No...lol. I'm not familiar with the area but it doesn't seem to be bustling. I was more referring to busy intersections in other locations where the disappearance of Maura is not well known.

 

[McSpy]

I don't know how anyone would know where maura kept those bottles.

But one point to note is that james visited the haverhill police in 2011 and got an officer (not one of maura's investigating officers) to look up some information concerning the alcohol to which the officer told james yep its all been accounted for.

I will trust that a reporter doing stories about the maura murray case back in the days that the case was (actually being investigated) would be privy to a little more reliable information than James.

I have gone over the five part series of stories done in the maura murray case dozens of times and have found the details in it to be quite consistent and accurate with what is known about the case. And she clearly states in her work that the bottles were missing.

I recall that article as well. The reporter also commented on Renner's blog about the alcohol. She said she was told by LE they were missing. She seemed upset that Renner made it sound like she got it wrong. Perhaps it was theorized that Maura had them in the trunk and removed them (witnesses saw her or who they thought was Maura at the trunk, before she disappeared). Renner claims that the bottles were all accounted for, according to LE. I have a feeling the bottles were in the trunk or were found in the trunk. IIRC, she also bought snacks. Perhaps the receipt included the snacks and alcohol, but the bag only included the snacks, so the theory was that the alcohol was in the bag in the trunk. This is all speculation of course.

In the end, I doubt LE would go in a locked trunk for a minor accident, so I doubt it would be on an accident report. They had evidence of alcohol from the busted wine box and bottle found near the driver's side door. I can't see why they would bother looking in a locked trunk. I don't think it is the norm, unless they suspect guns, drugs, etc. were possibly in there. Not sure, but what I am trying to say is the accident report may not be proof that she took the bottles with her. LE may not have opened the trunk until well after the night she went missing. JMO

 

[clueless]

I think the only way we can say the bottles are accounted for is if they were in the car, confirmed by police report, which we don't have unless I overlooked it somewhere. So, we have one reporter saying they are missing and another saying all are accounted for. Clear as mud.

We cannot assume that Maura took the alcohol with her if the bottles weren't in the car. Maybe she did take them, but it's also possible someone stole them at the accident scene. It's possible she gave them away or did something else with them before the accident. The point is, we don't know. And we can't make a leap to consider them accounted for without proof. Anything else is speculation.

 

[Pisces_Sun]

I'm not sure how the bottles of alcohol would heavily factor into determining where Maura is now. As Clueless stated, if they were indeed removed from the vehicle that night, it could've been for any purpose (personal pleasure, to share with someone she was meeting, payment for a ride, drink herself to death, staging something, trying to make her crash somewhat less incriminating). She obviously couldn't take the busted Franzia box with her but maybe in her state of mind she thought that removing the other bottles would make the crash look "better", and she could explain away the wine box as having busted open during the crash. She could've brought it with her because she would have no access to alcohol where she was headed, and it seems Maura was developing a drinking problem so it makes sense she would want the booze with her.

What I wonder is if all of Maura's belongings left in her dorm could be accounted for? Since we're considering all possibilites/theories, maybe Maura packed TWO bags that day, knowing she would leave one at the staged crash site and bring the other with her. I know she left a lot of sentimental things in the bag that was found in her vehicle, but if we're thinking on track with the "starting a new life" theory, it makes sense that she would have left those things behind. She very easily could've also bought herself a prepaid cellphone that none of her friends or family knew about. I wonder about that more than the alcohol issue...