GUILTY NJ - Autumn Pasquale, 12, Clayton, 20 Oct 2012 - #2

[aust amateur slueth]

I am a single parent of a 19 and 15yr old....I have been for 10yrs and their dad lives 500 miles away. He sees them twice a year. Once in the summer and once at christmas. With that said, my kids have been rarely supervised and spent many many many hours alone as I work full time 50+ hours a week.

My kids have rarely been disciplined and probably do walk over me just a little bit. Sure I'm lax most the time especially with my 15yr old mostly because it's just not worth the fight most the time. They have had EVERY OPPORTUNITY to do the WRONG things.

BUT LET ME SAY THIS.....they know if they take the wrong fork in the road, they will feel the wrath of a fury they don't want to see. We were talking about this case last night and my son asked "would you turn me in?" and my reply was "i would walk your *advertiser censored* to the police station myself" Every house hold is different. Single parent or not, kids do "go bad". But when parents give up the fight is where the system is broken. jmo.

I'd say that like me you worked hard when your children were young to instill good values into them, teaching them the difference between right and wrong.

I've seen kids go bad, nine times out of ten the parents were wishy washy with discipline, ineffective at setting rules, self absorbed and it had been like that since the children were young.

I 've always told my daughter that I might not like what she does sometimes, I might be disappointed by her actions but that no matter what I will always love her. She's grown up into a responsible and lovely young lady who thinks about how her actions will impact on her and others.

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

I think peoples perceptions are that times are worse because of how quickly the news is seen or heard all around the world, its almost instantaneous. Where years ago news was much slower to spread due to distance and methods of getting that news out.

If we were to compare the populations to the number of crimes over the last 100 years I think we would probably feel safer in some ways.

You are correct! Violence has actually plummeted over the last few centuries. There was an uptick in the 90's, but since then rates of violent crime have fallen considerably. We are simply more informed and aware than we were in the past, thanks to the internet and the 24/7 cable news cycle.

I highly recommend this book to all sleuthers-"The Better Angels of our Nature: Why Violence has Declined" by Steven Pinker:

The Better Angels of Our Nature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[zero]

The body was found in the abandoned house next to the murders house.

Incorrect found outside

From Autumn's Press Conference

 

[JustSomeGirl]

OT: I work at a charter school, and while it does have students with special needs, it is a 'regular' school. I guess there can be charter schools just for kids with emotional disturbances and/or behavioral disorders, but I don't think the term 'charter' is synonymous with alternative schools.

right it is just like a public school it has reg and spec ed kids. Charter schools arent run by the school district. They are independent

 

[TxLady2]

It's possible they were strangling her, but she was taking too long to die (UGH sick) so they bashed her in the head. When they do the autopsy, they can determine if there are fingernails marks on her neck to see if she was conscious when the strangulation was happening.

Or hit her on the head first, and then strangled her.
I learned a while back that it is not as easy to choke or strangle someone as most people might think. It takes a couple of minutes, and it's very painful and frightening to the victim. But to an amateur, if the victim passes out, they might think they're dead, and once the hands are loosened, the victim resumes breathing, so you may be correct about which came first. I think bruising would still be present, whether she was conscious or not. What the ME will be looking for is if the hyoid bone is broken. It will be interesting to see what the COD really is.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

RIP Sweet Autumn.
So very sad.

Good for the boys' mom for reporting her sons (if I am understanding that correctly)- how many times have we seen suspect's/the accused's mothers try to convince the media and all of us their child was oh so innocent and keep on enabling their children's criminal ways? Good for her. If there's a $10,000 reward I hope she gets it- if I were her I'd need years of therapy to get over the fact that I had raised two kids who'd kill over a bike, so I'd use the money for that).

If she gets it, I hope she donates it to a worthy cause, or maybe forms some kind of nonprofit org that puts together & donates bikes to underprivileged kids all in honor of Autumn. If she's a single mother of 5 kids, she may get therapy for free.

 

[zero]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/2...r_liked_Find_Autumn_Pasquale_Facebook_pa.html
This article states the older brothers school. It is an alternative/special needs school.

Lol. OK so it is an alternative school I went to one. Best thing that happened to me. Reason I went there was due to the school system and having 35 kids per class. I rebelled cut class got suspended. They offered that school to me smaller class sizes 2 teachers per room. Started there with a 1.0 graduated with a 4.0.

Now there were kids there that had extreme behavior issues. But let's not assume he was a horrible person just because he went to an alternative school

From Autumn's Press Conference

 

[belimom]

Clues left all around in slaying of NJ 12-year-old

CLAYTON, N.J. — The teenage brothers charged with killing a 12-year-old girl who disappeared while riding her bike through the New Jersey town where they all lived appear to have left behind a trail of evidence around their house and on the Internet making it easy for investigators to focus on them once their own mother tipped off authorities.

Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/2012/10/24/2382560/clues-left-all-around-in-slaying.html#storylink=cpy

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

You are correct! Violence has actually plummeted over the last few centuries. There was an uptick in the 90's, but since then rates of violent crime have fallen considerably. We are simply more informed and aware than we were in the past, thanks to the internet and the 24/7 cable news cycle.

I highly recommend this book to all sleuthers-"The Better Angels of our Nature: Why Violence has Declined" by Steven Pinker:

The Better Angels of Our Nature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Heck yeah, Steven Pinker! <3

I second your recommendation. His books are great, no matter what your level of expertise with psychology or neuroscience. He's a great author. I have several of his books at home and I've read them multiple times, getting something new out of it each time.

 

[JustSomeGirl]

Lol. OK so it is an alternative school I went to one. Best thing that happened to me. Reason I went there was due to the school system and having 35 kids per class. I rebelled cut class got suspended. They offered that school to me smaller class sizes 2 teachers per room. Started there with a 1.0 graduated with a 4.0.

Now there were kids there that had extreme behavior issues. But let's not assume he was a horrible person just because he went to an alternative school

From Autumn's Press Conference

im not assuming anything about anyone. As a mom of a child with special needs I certainly dont equate an alternative/special needs school with a horrible person. I was just pointing out there are def some issues going on, he is there for a reason. Weather he has behavior problems or he has special needs....nothing has come out yet.

 

[TxLady2]

I posted the link of the boys walking in with the mom walking behind them earlier. http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/19895169/2-brothers-charged-in-murder-of-autumn-pasquale
fox 29 was the only one to cover it. the courthouse is 5 min from me and clayton is about 20 min. Maybe no other news stations were at the courthouse because they were all on scene? Just thought it was weird that there wasnt more coverage there

They won't release their names, but they can show their picture??? WTH??

The mom did the right thing. I would do the same if it were my sons, but so many parents would do anything to protect their kids. It takes all kinds. I'm sure her heart is breaking and this will be painful for her to go through. My prayers for her to have the strength to get through it. So sad!!

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

MO I think it looks more like a choke slam. Someone posted a great reference earlier

From Autumn's Press Conference

I said that earlier (don't know if my post is the one you were referring to)

When they said the COD was Blunt Force Trauma consistent with strangulation, that made me think that she might have been choke slammed. A serious blow to the throat can fracture the hyoid bone, and without medical attention the swelling and internal bleeding can easily obstruct the airway, causing asphyxiation. As I said earlier, I have seen this injury before when I worked in the ER. Some kid was practicing MMA (Mixed Martial Arts AKA Ultimate Fighting) and was choke slammed. He needed an emergency tracheotomy and was on a vent for a week. Thank god his friends had enough sense to take him to the ER, because he wouldn't have survived without immediate medical intervention.

 

[Celt1997]

Omg really? What adult was there? Any?

From what I'm gathering from various MSM articles coming out, it seems that the 17/18 year old may have been the "adult" of the house. Reading between the lines a bit, but it would seem that Mom may have been staying somewhere else (or working so many hours) and the kids were there by themselves most of the time.

 

[letsgostate05]

A beautiful read that a friend of mine shared on facebook:
http://anuddercast.com/blog/2012/10/23/everyones-autumn/

 

[Jersey*Girl]

You are correct! Violence has actually plummeted over the last few centuries. There was an uptick in the 90's, but since then rates of violent crime have fallen considerably. We are simply more informed and aware than we were in the past, thanks to the internet and the 24/7 cable news cycle.

I highly recommend this book to all sleuthers-"The Better Angels of our Nature: Why Violence has Declined" by Steven Pinker:

The Better Angels of Our Nature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, to put it in perspective, the per capita ratio is much different than it was years ago. The USA's population has increased drastically since prior decades, so of course crime ratios differ. This is how politicians pull the wool over people's eyes, by citing these percentages that are only based on partial info instead of being compared to realistic & true consensus. It sucks tbh.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Or hit her on the head first, and then strangled her.
I learned a while back that it is not as easy to choke or strangle someone as most people might think. It takes a couple of minutes, and it's very painful and frightening to the victim. But to an amateur, if the victim passes out, they might think they're dead, and once the hands are loosened, the victim resumes breathing, so you may be correct about which came first. I think bruising would still be present, whether she was conscious or not. What the ME will be looking for is if the hyoid bone is broken. It will be interesting to see what the COD really is.

*Graphic?* MOO, I think what Eileen was referring to wasn't marks from the strangler's hands, but from the victim's hands, if she was trying to grab the strangler's hands to loosen them from her neck (for which she would need to be conscious).

 

[belimom]

Lol. OK so it is an alternative school I went to one. Best thing that happened to me. Reason I went there was due to the school system and having 35 kids per class. I rebelled cut class got suspended. They offered that school to me smaller class sizes 2 teachers per room. Started there with a 1.0 graduated with a 4.0.

Now there were kids there that had extreme behavior issues. But let's not assume he was a horrible person just because he went to an alternative school

From Autumn's Press Conference

Thanks for sharing, zero... I'm a School Psychologist, and in the district where I work, the alternative schools are mostly for students with ED/BD. HOWEVER, in the district where we live, we have an alternative school close by that serves all kinds of students. A neighbor works there, and I asked him about it. He says in no way is it a school for ED/BD but that is serves students who just need a different setting to thrive better. Much like what you said - smaller classes, different schedules such as night, etc.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

However, to put it in perspective, the per capita ratio is much different than it was years ago. The USA's population has increased drastically since prior decades, so of course crime ratios differ. This is how politicians pull the wool over people's eyes, by citing these percentages that are only based on partial info instead of being compared to realistic & true consensus. It sucks tbh.

I haven't read this particular book (although it's on my amazon wish list), but I have to say that my experience with Steven Pinker is that his science and stats are solid. Again in my experience, I think he's a straight shooter.

 

[zero]

*Graphic?* MOO, I think what Eileen was referring to wasn't marks from the strangler's hands, but from the victim's hands, if she was trying to grab the strangler's hands to loosen them from her neck (for which she would need to be conscious).

OK

Autumn walks in door greets JR walks down the hall DR comes from behind the corner grabs by the neck slamming her into wall pressure would crush windpipe wall knocked her out. Or same as above strangled by 1 took to long 2nd one hit over head.

From Autumn's Press Conference

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

However, to put it in perspective, the per capita ratio is much different than it was years ago. The USA's population has increased drastically since prior decades, so of course crime ratios differ. This is how politicians pull the wool over people's eyes, by citing these percentages that are only based on partial info instead of being compared to realistic & true consensus. It sucks tbh.

I'm not sure I follow...Per capita ratio's don't change when there is a population increase. They stay constant. That's why, while it's true that there are a higher NUMBER of violent crimes, the per-capita crime rate is much lower.

Steven Pinker gives a really thorough analysis in his book. It's over 800 pages long! I was beyond skeptical about his premise, but he more than proves his case. And he doesn't have any political motivation-he's a science geek .