GUILTY NJ - Autumn Pasquale, 12, Clayton, 20 Oct 2012 - #2

[zero]

Sorry... just trying to explain that the bruises would still be visible. However, unless that blow to her head was hard enough to kill her, I think the strangling attempt would bring her to enough to struggle. She would have had to be in a near coma for it not to make her regain consciousness. The body will automatically resist when the air is cut off. A person can be sound asleep, but if someone else puts a pillow over their face and tries to smother them, they will wake up and fight for air. Human nature.
Doesn't really matter which came first, she's dead either way.

Agree but body would not fight back if blood flow stop also (forearm choke from behind) black out almost immediately

From Autumn's Press Conference

 

[JustSomeGirl]

Other MSM sources say he attends the HS program:


via: http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/index.ssf/2012/10/autumn_pasquales_murder_-_out.html

IMO at this point we can't be sure exactly which program he attends and for what reason(s).

agreed

 

[momrids6]

so the original news article does say bankbridge development center, it says that neighbors had said that he attended there. Interesting to see how this will play out.
In our neighborhood we just refer to that school as "Bankbridge", wondering if neighbors had called it the same and the media just looked up the info and maybe quoted the wrong building. Not saying the boy is not on the spectrum, or has any BD we just dont know unless LE decide to make that info public. It just seems as though kids that have autism and are sent out to different schools tend to be more severe, non verbal ....ect. of course there are exceptions to every rule....

Please understand: I am looking at this at whom out of the two that may be 1. the scapegoat and 2. the true instigator, as well as how this may come into play from charging on through.

I have worked with differently-abled kids for 20 years; and have one of my own. Many become the putty in a manipulative kid's hands; especially one that they should be able to trust.

 

[JustSomeGirl]

All children have disciplinary problems. If you mean behavior problems I believe they do

From Autumn's Press Conference

I disagree not all children do...at all.

here is a link from their school info site again

Who are our students?
Our students have average ability or above, have been unsuccessful in a traditional school environment, are at risk of not completing high school, have a high truancy rate, and have been recommended by their sending school district. Over the past decade, the Alternative school has educated hundreds of students from the fourteen sending districts in Gloucester County.

What does Gloucester County Alternative High School offer students?
Alternative Program students are offered a chance to succeed in a nontraditional school where focus is placed on the "whole student"- academic, social, emotional, and behavioral needs. The Alternative Program offers a full range of clinical support including a psychiatrist, a psychologist, a social worker, and a SAC.

 

[zero]

I disagree not all children do...at all.

I have never met a child that is OK with being disciplined.


From Autumn's Press Conference

 

[fallenswife]

Forgive me but I'm confused. They didn't kill her for her bike correct? So why did they want her to come over and why did they kill her?

 

[momrids6]

I disagree not all children do...at all.

here is a link from their school info site again

Who are our students?
Our students have average ability or above, have been unsuccessful in a traditional school environment, are at risk of not completing high school, have a high truancy rate, and have been recommended by their sending school district. Over the past decade, the Alternative school has educated hundreds of students from the fourteen sending districts in Gloucester County.

What does Gloucester County Alternative High School offer students?
Alternative Program students are offered a chance to succeed in a nontraditional school where focus is placed on the "whole student"- academic, social, emotional, and behavioral needs. The Alternative Program offers a full range of clinical support including a psychiatrist, a psychologist, a social worker, and a SAC.

Alternative school is not the developmental school.

 

[Roselvr]

It's possible, anything is possible. I don't think they have released when they put Autumn in the recycle bin or when they took the recycle bin out to the curb for pick up. They may have had her in it and had the bin in the back yard.

*Not sure if one of the locals answered this...

The way it works here in the next town over is that we're not supposed to put trash or recycling at the curb until 6pm the night before pickup. If their pickup was Tuesday morning like ours; it would go out at some point Monday night after 6. Some kids will do it earlier; say they get home from school; gather trash then roll them out so its done. Putting the bin at the curb before mid afternoon Monday could have made someone suspicious since everyone was looking for her. My guess would be it was on the side of one of the houses or in a garage. Have they released who the bin belonged to?

I suppose at some point, all these details will be known to us. As to why the mother didn't smell something in the house, or where they kept Autumn's body until they took it to the street in the bin. Maybe we'll get answers as to why she was missed in the search earlier in the day......unless that grid hadn't been searched yet. They had over 200 volunteers out there looking for her but I don't think they were able to cover all the area they needed to in that one day. That could be why she wasn't found earlier. JMO

It's fall in NJ; weather has been cool. If the bin was in the shade; she may not have decomposed.

.

 

[JustSomeGirl]

I have never met a child that is OK with being disciplined.


From Autumn's Press Conference

you said all children have disciplinary problems.
I read that as all children get in trouble at school...discipline in the classroom (since we are talking about school here)

 

[zero]

Misconceptions:

she was killed for her bike-nope
she was kept alive for any length of time ????
the facebook post came after they killed her-nope
they intended to kill her ????

We will never know the truthful reason killed unless boys are honest.
Facebook post happened hours prior to discovery of autumns body.

R.I.P. Autumn

 

[zero]

you said all children have disciplinary problems.
I read that as all children get in trouble at school...discipline in the classroom (since we are talking about school here)

Understand but coming from a child that was classified in school that is considered behavioral

R.I.P. Autumn

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I haven't read this particular book (although it's on my amazon wish list), but I have to say that my experience with Steven Pinker is that his science and stats are solid. Again in my experience, I think he's a straight shooter.

I'm not sure I follow...Per capita ratio's don't change when there is a population increase. They stay constant. That's why, while it's true that there are a higher NUMBER of violent crimes, the per-capita crime rate is much lower.

Steven Pinker gives a really thorough analysis in his book. It's over 800 pages long! I was beyond skeptical about his premise, but he more than proves his case. And he doesn't have any political motivation-he's a science geek .

Thanks you guys! I'll get the book this weekend.

 

[JustSomeGirl]

Alternative school is not the developmental school.

correct- same district, not same building

 

[Isabelle]

Been away for a while, so apologize if someone already thought of this & posted. Another reason I could think of why the Mom of the accused may have voluntarily turned her sons in is that she realized she could be charged as an accessory after-the-fact in a murder if she kept the information to herself and her sons were later charged with murder. For all we know, LE may have already had the Facebook postings, made a possible connection to the accused & approached Mom asking for help, with a little reminder about those pesky accessory after-the-fact issues she might face.

I believe mom turned the boys in because it was the right thing to do and she feared for her own life if they knew she was on to them!

 

[Yellow]

Is there any sense whether they lured her there specifically to murder her? Or whether it was "toughness" that got out of hand? That is, they got mad at her about something, did a choke hold or something, and in the process of doing that it killed her? If the latter that seems more like second degree and they panicked. However, it could also be felony murder, which is sometimes treated as higher depending on the state, if a murder is committed in the course of the felony (I am not sure if any felonies other than murder were committed in this case, maybe the bike stuff or luring would be felonies).

Neither is excusable but it may get hard to PROVE first degree and show beyond a reasonable doubt that the second option did not happen. That is a shame bc then you will likely have these kids out in 5-20 years if that, especially the younger one if not tried as an adult.

It may also be hard to prove who did what. The brothers could each blame the other and you possibly could find it very hard to get a conviction. I hope they have some good touch DNA evidence.

I would not be surprised if both plea out to some sort of manslaughter due to possibly difficulty proving intent as well as who did it.

 

[zero]

*Not sure if one of the locals answered this...

The way it works here in the next town over is that we're not supposed to put trash or recycling at the curb until 6pm the night before pickup. If their pickup was Tuesday morning like ours; it would go out at some point Monday night after 6. Some kids will do it earlier; say they get home from school; gather trash then roll them out so its done. Putting the bin at the curb before mid afternoon Monday could have made someone suspicious since everyone was looking for her. My guess would be it was on the side of one of the houses or in a garage. Have they released who the bin belonged to?



It's fall in NJ; weather has been cool. If the bin was in the shade; she may not have decomposed.

.

The bin was not on the curb.
These boys just killed a girl I don't think they were the choir type.
Body starts to decompose once the heart stops beating. Not freezing out so will not slow process that much.

R.I.P. Autumn

 

[Celt1997]

Is there any sense whether they lured her there specifically to murder her? Or whether it was "toughness" that got out of hand? That is, they got mad at her about something, did a choke hold or something, and in the process of doing that it killed her? If the latter that seems more like second degree and they panicked. However, it could also be felony murder, which is sometimes treated as higher depending on the state, if a murder is committed in the course of the felony (I am not sure if any felonies other than murder were committed in this case, maybe the bike stuff or luring would be felonies).

Neither is excusable but it may get hard to PROVE first degree and show beyond a reasonable doubt that the second option did not happen. That is a shame bc then you will likely have these kids out in 5-20 years if that, especially the younger one if not tried as an adult.

It may also be hard to prove who did what. The brothers could each blame the other and you possibly could find it very hard to get a conviction. I hope they have some good touch DNA evidence.

I would not be surprised if both plea out to some sort of manslaughter due to possibly difficulty proving intent as well as who did it.

JMO, but if you're doing a "choke hold" on someone you know exactly what you're doing to them. In addition, the amount of time it would take to choke someone to death is plenty of time to reconsider what you're doing. Continuing to apply the choke hold shows the intent to kill, and, thusly, 1st degree murder.

 

[momrids6]

http://portal.tds.net/news/read.php?rip_id=<DA23P8LO2@news.ap.org>&ps=1011

Clues left all around in slaying of NJ 12-year-old

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I caught the presser that listed the charges, including "Consipiracy". Does anyone know if this is conspiracy to commit murder or conspiracy to steal?

I certainly hope this kids didn't plan on murdering Autumn...makes it worse than it already is.

Theft

 

[Jersey*Girl]

WOW. You're not joking.

$249.99 for a wheel?!

You can customize for optimum performance: Grips ($6.99-$20), tires (avg $30-$40), Cassette Driver ($50), $70 rims, $75 'Stems', 'Hubs' for $130+...

I have no idea what half of those things are...but these are priced for cars.

I tried to say it but so many were skeptical. It's hard to fathom unless you have a kid that's into this stuff.

A good bike is like anything else. A good comparison could be a car: Hyundai or Mercedes? Definitely cheaper to replace parts on a Hyundai.