NJ Bridal Salon Refuses to Sell Gown to Lesbian Bride

[Fairy1]

I don't see how or why. By law we recognize that arbitrarily discriminating against people for immutable characteristics is bad for the victims of discrimination and bad for society as a whole.

If one is so ignorant one can't cope with people who are different, then one should retire to one's white supremacist compound and raise goats.

I don't believe it was arbitrary at all. And people like that ARE goats - one of many, blindly following the herd. IMOHO.

 

[Nova]

I don't believe it was arbitrary at all. And people like that ARE goats - one of many, blindly following the herd. IMOHO.

I don't think we disagree on this subject, Fairy1. To me, discrimination against gay people is arbitrary because there is no rational reason for it.

 

[Charlie09]

I don't see how or why. By law we recognize that arbitrarily discriminating against people for immutable characteristics is bad for the victims of discrimination and bad for society as a whole.

If one is so ignorant one can't cope with people who are different, then one should retire to one's white supremacist compound and raise goats.

That's rather tolerant of you.

 

[Charlie09]

I don't think we disagree on this subject, Fairy1. To me, discrimination against gay people is arbitrary because there is no rational reason for it.

It's gay marriage that is not agreed with, not gay people in general.

 

[Charlie09]

Absolutely. And if she is choosing not to sell a dress to a lesbian, she is choosing to break the law and/or suffer from the effects of bad press. In which case she gets what is coming to her.

Or maybe some people will shop there because she took a stand.

 

[Charlie09]

Apparently, it's not her choice. There was a post up-thread that made that perfectly clear.

Of course not ALL children are poorly behaved. I know my certainly weren't. And as adults, they are also tolerant of other HUMANS.

Sorry. I cannot even begin to understand how anyone could defend this shop owner.

Yes, this is America. And yes, this IS America. Some may not believe there is room for gays. Personally, I believe there is no room for self-righteous, judgmental, bigoted people. If I was fortunate enough to be a business owner, I would be more than happy to sell anyone a frigging wedding gown, or anything else for which they were willing to pay in my place of business!

That shop owner should be ashamed. Though I doubt she is or ever will be.

You said

That is soooooo not the same thing. Refusing to allow screaming, whiny, unruly children into a restaurant establishment speaks to protecting the atmosphere for ALL the patrons, and not doing so really could hurt business. This woman simply wanted to purchase a wedding gown.

The owner of the restaurant did not ban only, screaming, whiny, and unruly children. He banned ALL children. It was his preference and his patrons either appreciate it or go somewhere else. The same will happen here.

 

[kline]

While the actions of the store owner are a bit overboard, she does have the right to refuse service. If she feels that strongly, then I have to support her willingness to stand behind her beliefs, even with the potential of causing herself some loss of business.

Ive heard people use the same arguments and equivocations being used to make a case for a business owners 'right' to refuse service based on the color of one's skin.
It dont wash. Ignorant bigotry is ignorant bigotry.
God,you would think this Nation would be past this kind of insanity by the 21st century.
Sick and sad.

 

[Melanie]

Discrimination is alive and well in the good ol' USA. I'm certainly not pro-gay-marriage, but if it's legal it's none of my dam business. Couples should be allowed to go into a store and purchase a wedding gown regardless of who they plan to marry.

Like someone said, the owner sounds like a bafoon who is only hurting their bottom line.

JMHO

Mel

 

[Donjeta]

This is very different.

I don't see how.

 

[not_my_kids]

I think that the shop owners statements, especially "They get that way," make it perfectly clear that her problem is not just with the marriage aspect, but with gays in general. It is the shop owners decision who she serves, however, the law makes it clear that she cannot make that decision based on sexual orientation. And if I were that bride, you can be damned sure that I would also be yelling about this injustice from the rooftops. Not for drama, but for justice.

 

[Charlie09]

I think that the shop owners statements, especially "They get that way," make it perfectly clear that her problem is not just with the marriage aspect, but with gays in general. It is the shop owners decision who she serves, however, the law makes it clear that she cannot make that decision based on sexual orientation. And if I were that bride, you can be damned sure that I would also be yelling about this injustice from the rooftops. Not for drama, but for justice.

Justice for what?
Not buying a dress at a store she could get elsewhere? Justice because in NJ gay marriage is NOT legal? Justice because she was told no? Justice because her feelings were hurt?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I'm not taking (or voicing) my stand on the gay marriage thing. However, what other stores do you all shop in that requests that you fill out a "card" with information on what you plan to do with your purchase? She could have wanted that wedding dress for a Halloween (or masquerade) party.

Does this shop refuse to sell to you if you refuse to fill out her little info card? What business is it of the shop owners what you plan to do with your purchase?

IMHO I think that is where this all side-railed. I don't believe any shop owner has the right to have you fill out anything about what you plan to do with your purchase.

Can you imagine if grocery stores did this? What do you plan on doing with your Immodium AD pills? Or, are you planning on drinking this case of beer and then driving? C'mon.

Now I do know about the "meth" problem and having to show ID to buy those cold medicines. And also with the gardening stores where someone buys like 50 200lb bags of fertilizer. But a wedding dress?

I think that info card is intrusive and if I had been asked to fill it out - I would have left the store and not given her my business. Also, IMHO I think she (owner) uses that info card to try to sell bridesmaid dresses, mother of the bride (or groom), flower girls - hell - anyone interested in attending the wedding.

All my opinion. Just sayin..............

 

[MrsG728]

Wise Owl, I was thinking the same thing- what if a bride doesn't fill out the groom section because of privacy? This is her legal right not a technicality.
(I was actually thinking more of a fantasy scenario where groom is in the witness protection program LOL)

It is not the legal right of the shop owner to turn away business based on age, creed, race or sexual orientation according to the NJ state constitution.

MAYBE this means that she should have kept her uberconservative and bigoted thoughts to herself- and called the bride with a different excuse (can't get your dress in time, find another store etc.) However, by opening her big fat mouth and now, she has implicated herself in blatant discrimination, which is illegal.

She should be shut down at the very least.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I hope the Bride finds a beautiful gown for her wedding day and send them Congratulations and Best Wishes......:cake:

 

[not_my_kids]

Justice for what?
Not buying a dress at a store she could get elsewhere? Justice because in NJ gay marriage is NOT legal? Justice because she was told no? Justice because her feelings were hurt?

Justice because under New Jersey law, a shopkeeper or business owner cannot deny service based on sexual orientation.

 

[Nova]

That's rather tolerant of you.

Yeah, I'm kinda over being tolerant of intolerance.

 

[Nova]

It's gay marriage that is not agreed with, not gay people in general.

I might see the shop owner's point if she sat down with each customer, did an extensive interview and then decided whether or not she approved of the marriage before deciding to sell a gown. Of course, she would be out of business in a hot, New York minute, but I might see her point.

But I'm willing to bet she doesn't "take a stand" with all her customers, just the openly gay ones.

 

[Donjeta]

Justice for what?
Not buying a dress at a store she could get elsewhere? Justice because in NJ gay marriage is NOT legal? Justice because she was told no? Justice because her feelings were hurt?

Illegal discrimination.

 

[Trident]

If gay marriage is not legal in New Jersey, and the store owner knew the dress was going to be used for an illegal act, wouldn't the store owner be guilty as an accessory?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

If gay marriage is not legal in New Jersey, and the store owner knew the dress was going to be used for an illegal act, wouldn't the store owner be guilty as an accessory?

No.

It's not illegal to sell a wedding dress. No matter who is going to wear it.

I'm pretty sure the brides were going to get married in NY.

I don't think the dress was going to be used in an illegal act.