AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #4

[jjenny]

"Tender years" is generally a child 4 or under.

Yikes. If they went with this story rather than whatever mother was supposedly told before she made 911 call, then I guess no adult actually witnessed anything?

 

[JerzeyGirl]

They needed something to get the Amber Alert out.

 

[jjenny]

They needed something to get the Amber Alert out.

Well, I guess, but that means the red van information is highly dubious at best.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Well, I guess, but that means the red van information is highly dubious at best.

I wonder if the 3 year old brother related this story?

 

[ProtectChildren]

I wonder if the 3 year old brother related this story?

Someone tried to get the Prosecutor to comment further that this was the 3 year old brother and she was clear to say she would not confirm that and it seems there were other children witnesses.

I wished someone asked specifically if there were doubts if there was a van at all.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Aren't 911 operators supposed to be trained to parrot the statements the caller is making, to the best of their ability?

I can see it getting confusing, though, when everything is "they" and "them". My sister used to retail the events of her day thusly; all pronouns and general terms, and none of them included proper names. Not intended as criticism as the mother clearly didn't know anybody's proper names; but those conversations with my sister used to drive me wild, because I could never keep track of whom the speaker was.

I also agree that pickup basketball games generally don't have full teams involved in the inner cities. I mean, they can; and it's also not uncommon to have adoring families and romantic interests come and merely watch the game; but it's possible there could have been 6-8 people available to play a game, and very few watchers. Plus, the games can be loud and involve a lot of distracting movement that would detract from their surroundings.

 

[Steelslady]

Oh boy. Witness to the red van story is a child of "tender years." I had a feeling it was a child. Children can be easily confused of when exactly they saw something.

It could have been a red car, van, truck- ugh! Poor kid, I am sure they did the best that they could to describe it.

 

[Steelslady]

"Tender years" is generally a child 4 or under.

I wonder if that is the child who's face was blocked out when they went with LE to the park to the area of where Dulce was thought to be kidnapped.

I read about Dulce "running between houses". I wonder why she didn't run back to her Mom's car, if this was the case? Did they check out any of those houses?

 

[squareandrabbet]

It could have been a red car, van, truck- ugh! Poor kid, I am sure they did the best that they could to describe it.

Agreed. It could also explain the puzzlingly loud outfit descriptor. Would a child call a tomato, for example, "red"? Or would they call it "orange", or even depending upon the tomato, "green"? Might they call "red" wine, "purple"? I think they could...

 

[jjenny]

I wonder if the 3 year old brother related this story?

The prosecutor said she wouldn't confirm or deny who the child of tender years is. I can't imagine how they would get all this information out of non-verbal 3 year old. But that would make it even less credible.

 

[jjenny]

I wonder if that is the child who's face was blocked out when they went with LE to the park to the area of where Dulce was thought to be kidnapped.

I read about Dulce "running between houses". I wonder why she didn't run back to her Mom's car, if this was the case? Did they check out any of those houses?

I am sure they searched all those buildings, likely one of the first search areas.

 

[jjenny]

I wonder if that is the child who's face was blocked out when they went with LE to the park to the area of where Dulce was thought to be kidnapped.

I read about Dulce "running between houses". I wonder why she didn't run back to her Mom's car, if this was the case? Did they check out any of those houses?

I am guessing yes, that was the child of tender years witness.

 

[Steelslady]

Yikes. If they went with this story rather than whatever mother was supposedly told before she made 911 call, then I guess no adult actually witnessed anything?

This is what I am really nervous about. I didn't want to say it. The child may have panicked and could have made up the description just because they felt a need to help. They might have seen a kid with a red van- it could have been one of the basketball players parked there.

Now, who exactly saw Dulce being chased by a man or two men near the houses? Same child, or did someone else see this?

 

[jjenny]

Someone tried to get the Prosecutor to comment further that this was the 3 year old brother and she was clear to say she would not confirm that and it seems there were other children witnesses.

I wished someone asked specifically if there were doubts if there was a van at all.

As I recall she was asked prior about the red van story, she said it was just one of many leads they were following. She certainly didn't sound convinced.

 

[jjenny]

This is what I am really nervous about. I didn't want to say it. The child may have panicked and could have made up the description just because they felt a need to help. They might have seen a kid with a red van- it could have been one of the basketball players parked there.

Now, who exactly saw Dulce being chased by a man or two men near the houses? Same child, or did someone else see this?

I don't think anybody said that other than the 911 dispatcher. It's not in a Amber alert, mother herself doesn't actually claimed Dulce was chased by men or a man.

 

[Steelslady]

Agreed. It could also explain the puzzlingly loud outfit descriptor. Would a child call a tomato, for example, "red"? Or would they call it "orange", or even depending upon the tomato, "green"? Might they call "red" wine, "purple"? I think they could...

You make an excellent point. Even though I knew blueberries by name, I insisted on calling them purple berries because to me, they looked like purple berries as a small child. I still feel that way, but you'll be happy to know I call them blueberries now.

 

[IReadTooMuch]

My thoughts... a small child could call tan work boots orange, Timberlands are sort of an orange color. They could also say maroon is red. They could also confuse an SUV with a van. I don’t think a black shirt, red or maroon pants and work boots would be a weird combo, someone who works in construction sometimes wants to wear bold clothes to stick out for their safety.

 

[jjenny]

My thoughts... a small child could call tan work boots orange, Timberlands are sort of an orange color. They could also say maroon is red. They could also confuse an SUV with a van. I don’t think a black shirt, red or maroon pants and work boots would be a weird combo, someone who works in construction sometimes wants to wear bold clothes to stick out for their safety.

Or they can confuse a time and a place of when they maybe saw something if they did.

 

[Steelslady]

Operator: 911 what is your emergency?
Caller: I can’t find my daughter.
Operator: When was the last time you seen her?
Caller: We were, we were with her at the park and people say that somebody, probably somebody took her.
Operator: Ok how old is she?
Caller: She’s five years old.
Operator: Ok and what park are you at?
Caller: Here in Bridgeton Park.
Operator: OK where in the Bridgeton Park are you?
Caller: Umm... The one with the basketball court where the high school is.
Operator: Ah OK so you’re at the basketball courts behind the high school?
Caller: Yes.
Operator: Ok, and what was she seen last wearing?
Caller: (pauses) …She was wearing um…, umm, give me a second (speaks to another person in Spanish). I don’t remember what clothes she was wearing, but she was wearing, I just remember her pants, she was wearing like a flower, flowery pants, and some heels, some white heels.
Operator: Ok ma’am stay on the line I will transfer you over to the police.
Operator: And you said she was five correct?
Caller: Yes.
Police: Hello ma’am, did you she which direction your child went?
Caller: No we were in the car she, she came down with my son. They were running to the park and then me and my sister we came down. So whe, whe, when we got here at the park she wasn’t here. They said, they said that my son was just crying with his ice cream, because somebody spilled his ice cream on the floor and my daughter just ran away.
Police: OK hold on.
Police: Alright, you didn’t see anyone else around there that she could have possibly went with?
Caller: No not… not that I know of, cause we just don’t know. There’s just some other people that.., they are here that say that they saw her running. Running through um…,Through some houses in the back. And they, they said that they saw two pers… they saw two men. They saw a black guy and they saw a Mexican man with two kids.
Police: So who’s saying, who’s saying that, who’s saying they saw them?
Caller: There’s people here in the basketball court, that they saw her, they said that they saw her running.
Police: They’re saying that there’s people there at the basketball court, that they saw her running through some houses with two black males.
What colour top did she have on?
Caller: Um... I don’t remember.
Police: Are you at the basketball court?
Caller: Yes I`m right here right now.
Police: And do you have your son with you or is your son…
Caller: No, I have my son with me. They say he was crying when we found him. He was just standing there crying.
Police: he was standing there crying so who… you said that the black males took his ice cream?
Caller: No they threw it on the floor.
Police: So the two males took his ice cream and threw it on the floor, and then they left with your daughter?
Caller: Probably, cause I didn’t saw it. When we came in and look for her we were looking everywhere for her and we couldn’t find her.
Officer arrives on scene.

ETA:

What i don't like about this call (and it's only a small point and is noticeable in her interviews, too) is she fails to use Dulce's name freely and without prompt throughout.

@jjenny I bolded the part where Dulce's mother told the police on the phone that they saw Dulce running through some houses out back.

 

[Steelslady]

I wonder if the 3 year old brother related this story?

Some of us thought that before, but then the mother said that he was non-verbal.