AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #4

[Steelslady]

Whew. A lot but here goes!

The gangs/affiliations we have NEVER bring children into it. Not even in a case of a shooting at someones house where their children were present. If anything, these gangs are more boots on the ground & ears in the streets to HELP. The Mexican community is extremely to themselves. Its a lot of farm land here so we do have a lot of laborers but they truly keep within themselves.

The ICE questioning hasn't really been explained but chatter on social media is saying it was just a questioning stemming from the situation. They are just acting as another agency of LE. To my understanding.

I do not think it is a situation where the "elders" necessarily can put the shake down on the community. Religion is extremely important to all of the Hispanic communities (we have Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, and Dominicans in large quantities, all with their own churches) but I do not think this will have a "confession" type breakthrough.

Social media and personal LO chatter has been extremely critical. The community was furious at how long it took for an actual amber alert to be activated, not understanding the kind of odd way details were coming from the mother.

...We know when something isn't adding up. And going from no description to an entire BOLO hasn't generated any information. Which, well you can take how you want as to not victim blame.

The streets are completely silent, in the sense that nothing has been found supporting her narrative. LE has something close to the belt that has them less concerned with the family making public pleas. After the disaster that was that poor little boy from Millville, they've learned the signs of things just not connecting.

Like I said, everyone knows everyone's moves. There's only about 3 degrees of separation between individuals in this area.

I haven't personally seen any corroboration of a Red Van being spotted in that part of town at all besides what the mom and brother are saying.

I just don't know how to truly convey the closeness of all of us in the area. Which makes it so so difficult to think that all of this happened and literally NO bystander saw anything there or anywhere else.

I so appreciate you taking the time to explain all of this to us. This is just so helpful in ways I can't explain.

I am reading between the lines and appreciate the honesty that you are able to give us, without breaking the rules here.

 

[moonlessnight]

there are a variety of developmental disorders that could result in delayed speech. and we know severe, early trauma can result in delayed speech development. 3 is a little bit late to not talk at all, unless there are other issues.

Not really that big a difference when it comes to describing something to the police. Either way he can't tell what he saw. And I don't think she means he is mute. I am assuming she means he doesn't talk YET.

 

[afitzy]

I am gonna echo what I see a lot.

We don't understand the car situation with the mother. As to why she needed to stay in the car. Homework/scratch offs/whatever makes very little sense because there is seating at every single park in the area. Almost to the point of most of them being able to accommodate parties/festivals.

Yes, agree with you here and one of the press people asked Mom today if when she had come to the park other times whether she sat on the benches and Mom said that YES she did sit on benches. The thing though with the scratch off card being mentioned today was strange because first it was helping with homework and then it was sitting in the car on FaceTime.

Mom is also 5 mos. pregnant so maybe she wasn't feeling great and that is why she stayed in car. Mom also said today that the 2 youngest ones ran out of the car to get to the swings when she pulled into the park. Maybe Mom was going to join them at some point.

But why the shift in story to 3 yo running back to the car crying? Today we heard that 9 yo Mom sister said that she couldn't see Dulce and that Mom and 9 yo go out of car and then they ran into 3 yo son crying.

Honestly, not sure which of these versions is correct or are any of them correct or are they all correct? IDK. Very confusing to me to try and figure out what happened.

 

[Steelslady]

In terms of the "revenge" angle... IMO it'd be a scorned male from SOMEWHERE in the mothers life.

And we have a fair amount of perverts out here. I'm sure you all have checked the sex offender registry in the area to death. But honestly. The crime here is either drug offenses, drug related violence, domestic violence, or TONS of traffic accidents/dui's/etc.

That is possible for sure, but she's 19. I would imagine the other men were also young- at least Dulce's dad appeared to be. What would cause one of them to kidnap an innocent child like this? Even if you're angry at the mother for some reason, why hurt an innocent child?

It just feels like there's something more to it. It could be someone from her past for sure, but wouldn't she know right away, by the description that witnesses gave, who it could have been? If LE hadn't stated themselves that they questioned witnesses and got the description of the man and the van from someone there, I'd think the mother was in on it. However, the witnesses told LE that description- she still maintains that she didn't see it happen, that it was out of her sight.

So, now I don't know what to think, either. Also, LE keeps stating that they consider Dulce missing and are treating this like Dulce is still alive. That's intriguing to me, too.

 

[MimosaMornings]

FBI Talked with Dulce's Father in Mexico; Still No New Leads

“He never played a role in Dulce's life, the mother said, but recently announced his plan to fight for custody.”
———-
Mother of 5-year-old South Jersey girl apparently abducted in Bridgeton park grieves and waits

“Dulce’s father, she said, is from Mexico and, after being with Alavez Perez in New Jersey for a while, returned there to study at a university in Sinaloa. “He’s finishing his studies so he could give a better life to my daughter,” she said.”
———-
N.J. Amber Alert update: Mom pleads for abducted 5-year-old girl’s safe return as search resumes

“Dulce’s father is in Mexico, Alavez said, and she hasn’t been in touch with him. He still has family in the Bridgeton area, though, and they notified him of the child’s disappearance, she said.”
———- ———-
Could this have something to do with Dulce’s disappearance?

 

[afitzy]

Whew. A lot but here goes!

The gangs/affiliations we have NEVER bring children into it. Not even in a case of a shooting at someones house where their children were present. If anything, these gangs are more boots on the ground & ears in the streets to HELP. The Mexican community is extremely to themselves. Its a lot of farm land here so we do have a lot of laborers but they truly keep within themselves.

The ICE questioning hasn't really been explained but chatter on social media is saying it was just a questioning stemming from the situation. They are just acting as another agency of LE. To my understanding.

I do not think it is a situation where the "elders" necessarily can put the shake down on the community. Religion is extremely important to all of the Hispanic communities (we have Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, and Dominicans in large quantities, all with their own churches) but I do not think this will have a "confession" type breakthrough.

Social media and personal LO chatter has been extremely critical. The community was furious at how long it took for an actual amber alert to be activated, not understanding the kind of odd way details were coming from the mother.

...We know when something isn't adding up. And going from no description to an entire BOLO hasn't generated any information. Which, well you can take how you want as to not victim blame.

The streets are completely silent, in the sense that nothing has been found supporting her narrative. LE has something close to the belt that has them less concerned with the family making public pleas. After the disaster that was that poor little boy from Millville, they've learned the signs of things just not connecting.

Like I said, everyone knows everyone's moves. There's only about 3 degrees of separation between individuals in this area.

I haven't personally seen any corroboration of a Red Van being spotted in that part of town at all besides what the mom and brother are saying.

I just don't know how to truly convey the closeness of all of us in the area. Which makes it so so difficult to think that all of this happened and literally NO bystander saw anything there or anywhere else.

Brilliant and so so helpful! Thank you.

Were you at all surprised that there were 24 or so folks playing bball and it doesn't appear that they saw much or anything?

We also don't know who it was that alerted on the red vehicle and the alleged perp description.

Do locals have knowledge of the extended family and possibly know who the father of 3 yo might be? Once you factor in the extended families of the 2 children and now Mom BF family it seems like the range of people that might know something about the missing Dulce just got pretty big?

Can you think of anything that might prompt people to help solve this case that LE or the family hasn't done yet? Like you said, everyone is tight and knows each other so even though the sex offenders list looks big given the size of the town, do you think the situation is such that local could isolate who might have taken Dulce and why?

 

[Yvettea]

That is possible for sure, but she's 19. I would imagine the other men were also young- at least Dulce's dad appeared to be. What would cause one of them to kidnap an innocent child like this? Even if you're angry at the mother for some reason, why hurt an innocent child?

It just feels like there's something more to it. It could be someone from her past for sure, but wouldn't she know right away, by the description that witnesses gave, who it could have been? If LE hadn't stated themselves that they questioned witnesses and got the description of the man and the van from someone there, I'd think the mother was in on it. However, the witnesses told LE that description- she still maintains that she didn't see it happen, that it was out of her sight.

So, now I don't know what to think, either. Also, LE keeps stating that they consider Dulce missing and are treating this like Dulce is still alive. That's intriguing to me, too.

I’m not buying the story of a child molester who visits parks in a bright red van.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Well hell! I’ve been retired a month and going crazy! What is this?

National CASA (@NationalCASA) on Twitter
https://casaforchildren.org/
https://casaforchildren.org/our-work/programs/

 

[afitzy]

FBI Talked with Dulce's Father in Mexico; Still No New Leads

“He never played a role in Dulce's life, the mother said, but recently announced his plan to fight for custody.”
———-
I read another article that mentioned Dulces’s mother did not talk to the father but he had relatives that lived in the area and they had contacted him when Dulce was reported missing.

Could this have something to do with Dulce’s disappearance?

Its so hard to know. Dulce father has last name Perez. Grandmother has last name Perez and seems to have been the one in contact with Dulce father. Why Grandmother was in contact with Dulce father is unclear. Was she getting money to support Dulce or was she in contact because he is family to her in some way we don't understand? Mom today said Dulce dad in Mexico doesn't have enough money to return to NJ. But Mom earlier in this process said Dad had been deported? Why was he deported and does it even matter? IDK.

 

[Steelslady]

I’m not buying the story of a child molester who visits parks in a bright red van.

But that didn't come from the mother. That came from a witness or possibly more than one- the description of a man helping a little girl that looked like Dulce getting in the back of the van.

One thing we need to keep in mind- the mother's younger sister, who is 8 years old, was there, too. LE has experts that would gently be able to get it out of her, if her big sister was not in the car with her when she started her homework. It wouldn't take long for them to break a child down gently and get that information, such as her sister met some guy in the park and Dulce went with him.

I wonder if this person was someone Dulce knew from the past, maybe she felt comfortable with him? They never found a trace of her ice cream and spoon- so she took it with her. She clearly chose one at the store just before they went to the park.

 

[MimosaMornings]

@afitzy - Could have nothing to do with it.
I don’t know. Just trying to look at all the angles. A lot of tragic cases on here seem to have child custody as a trigger for evil to occur. JMO

 

[moonlessnight]

the last statement sounds as if the 9 yo sister went to look for the little ones and did not find either of them, so they both went looking and came upon the 3 yo somewhere. If this is the case, why did the 9 yo go looking for them? How long had they been there waiting for the toddlers? Why could the 9 yo not find the 3 yo?

or did the 9 yo just not see them from the car, where Noema should have had the same view?

so confused.

“The 3-year-old came back to the car without Dulce and after a brief search of the immediate area, Perez called 911, police said.

"He was crying and when I asked 'where's your sister' -- he just pointed behind the building. That's it because he doesn't speak," Perez said Monday.

She said that after stopping for ice cream at a Sunoco station they drove over to the park, where Dulce and her brother immediately got out and ran over to the playground. She said from the parking lot she could not see the swings because of a hill.

"I was scratching my lottery tickets and my sister got her homework out. But when my sister told me there was no sign of them we went and checked," Perez said.”
————-
I’m confused.....the last sentence doesn’t match with the little boy coming up to the car?

 

[PunkCake]

That is possible for sure, but she's 19. I would imagine the other men were also young- at least Dulce's dad appeared to be. What would cause one of them to kidnap an innocent child like this? Even if you're angry at the mother for some reason, why hurt an innocent child?

It just feels like there's something more to it. It could be someone from her past for sure, but wouldn't she know right away, by the description that witnesses gave, who it could have been? If LE hadn't stated themselves that they questioned witnesses and got the description of the man and the van from someone there, I'd think the mother was in on it. However, the witnesses told LE that description- she still maintains that she didn't see it happen, that it was out of her sight.

So, now I don't know what to think, either. Also, LE keeps stating that they consider Dulce missing and are treating this like Dulce is still alive. That's intriguing to me, too.

The domestic violence is CRAZY high here. And as we've been seeing over and over again in the media, kids are getting killed because of adults. Whether it be a s.o of the parent, or an estranged parent.

The aren't going to refer to it as anything other than missing because there is no info pointing one way or another, like at all.

Brilliant and so so helpful! Thank you.

Were you at all surprised that there were 24 or so folks playing bball and it doesn't appear that they saw much or anything?

We also don't know who it was that alerted on the red vehicle and the alleged perp description.

Do locals have knowledge of the extended family and possibly know who the father of 3 yo might be? Once you factor in the extended families of the 2 children and now Mom BF family it seems like the range of people that might know something about the missing Dulce just got pretty big?

Can you think of anything that might prompt people to help solve this case that LE or the family hasn't done yet? Like you said, everyone is tight and knows each other so even though the sex offenders list looks big given the size of the town, do you think the situation is such that local could isolate who might have taken Dulce and why?

Yup. If you're at a park around here, you're minding your own business because stuff like this just DOESN'T happen for you to even keep from mind purging everything from day to day.

The extended family is HUGE. And I don't even need to know her personally to know that. (I probably do know someone that does but I'm way too emotionally drained to truly insert myself into that kind of loop)

There's also a huge kinship that produces "extended family". I've be a part of it myself. Those 3 degrees of separation is EXTREMELY prevalent. Your "cousins" "cousin" becomes your "cousin" also. With none of us being blood related. Ha. And people don't normally move away from this area so there's a lot of generational connections between so and so going to highschool with your parent or such and such teacher ending up acquainted with your entire family.

In every day life, I tend to have a lot of " I might know them, what's their last name, who do they stay around" and then it'll jog my memory.

 

[Rosiebones]

The domestic violence is CRAZY high here. And as we've been seeing over and over again in the media, kids are getting killed because of adults. Whether it be a s.o of the parent, or an estranged parent.

The aren't going to refer to it as anything other than missing because there is no info pointing one way or another, like at all.



Yup. If you're at a park around here, you're minding your own business because stuff like this just DOESN'T happen for you to even keep from mind purging everything from day to day.

The extended family is HUGE. And I don't even need to know her personally to know that. (I probably do know someone that does but I'm way too emotionally drained to truly insert myself into that kind of loop)

There's also a huge kinship that produces "extended family". I've be a part of it myself. Those 3 degrees of separation is EXTREMELY prevalent. Your "cousins" "cousin" becomes your "cousin" also. With none of us being blood related. Ha. And people don't normally move away from this area so there's a lot of generational connections between so and so going to highschool with your parent or such and such teacher ending up acquainted with your entire family.

In every day life, I tend to have a lot of " I might know them, what's their last name, who do they stay around" and then it'll jog my memory.

Respectively asking, would family protect family to the bitter end?

 

[Steelslady]

I’m not buying the story of a child molester who visits parks in a bright red van.

I also forgot to add- there was a video on here, to which LE led three witnesses into the park and went towards the area that Dulce was kidnapped. There was a small child and two adults with LE- all of their faces were thankfully blurred out by the media. So, two adults saw something- I am gathering that at least one of them, if not both, saw a child that looked like Dulce get into the back of a red van and they must have been the witnesses who gave a description of him. So, those two witnesses at least do exist.

 

[MimosaMornings]

25 towns with the highest domestic violence rates in 2015

Bridgeton is ranked as number two. Scary.

 

[PunkCake]

Respectively asking, would family protect family to the bitter end?

Well. In minority cultures. (I'm personally black american) We take up for ours.
For example when that man killed his baby over a video game and his mom & cousin helped concoct that elaborate car jacking scenario. You just never know.

 

[PunkCake]

25 towns with the highest domestic violence rates in 2015

Bridgeton is ranked as number two. Scary.

It's bad. I personally know first hand how bad.

 

[Rosiebones]

Well. In minority cultures. (I'm personally black american) We take up for ours.
For example when that man killed his baby over a video game and his mom & cousin helped concoct that elaborate car jacking scenario. You just never know.

Thank you @PunkCake for sharing your insights. They are sensitively stated and very, very helpful.

 

[HayLouise]

The New York Times
@nytimes

Parents in this rural community in southern New Jersey have been haunted by the same question for the last two weeks: What happened to 5-year-old Dulce Maria Alavez?

She Disappeared From a Playground. Fears of Kidnapping and ICE Followed.

The New York Times on Twitter