AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Maria Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, 16 Sept 2019

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Thanks white rabbit.

Yes, members can discuss what's in the article (I believe it may have been linked before); they just can't start sleuthing the father of the child or turning the convo into a discussion on immigration, etc.
 
Tealgrove said:
Back to the suspected kidnapper and a couple of points to consider.

1. I know a lot of people are wondering why it took so long for "witnesses" to come forward with information about a kidnapping. I think Dulce didn't struggle. I think she went with him quietly. It's quite possible that no one thought for a minute that there was an issue especially if she just went with him. I know parents say all the time that their kid would never go off with a stranger but the reality is....THEY DO!

2. The description of this suspected kidnapper is very specific. The orange shoes and red pants have me intrigued to be honest. One would think that if you are out cruising around and are looking for a child to kidnap you might wear something less "vibrant". So what does this say? Either it was a spur of the moment decision and the opportunity was right and he took her or....he didn't care.

Who wears orange Nikes and red pants? It's quite the fashion statement. Were they red jeans or jogging pants? Well dressed or sloppy? Put together or thrown together? Do the colours mean something? Gang related?

The description of this guy is so specific that I am surprised someone hasn't come forward with a name.

Add that to a red van, which again, is very bright. If this guy is a seasoned criminal, into kidnapping children, I'm thinking a red van is not his first choice of vehicle.

I do not, for one second, believe Mom had anything to do with this - not at all. But there is something niggling at me about the description of the suspected kidnapper.

It's so precise. It's so "large". I'm beginning to fear that it's a red herring. I just don't know what it is that bothers me about it but there's something.

I once lost a child I was babysitting, in a grocery store. It was all of 5 minutes and we found her in the candy isle chowing down on candy. Surprise Surprise. I cannot express how I felt in those 5 minutes. My mind went to a million places, none of which were good. I was hysterical and that was after 5 minutes.

This poor mother and family. They are experiencing the absolute worst nightmare and fear of their lives.

Please find Dulce and bring her home.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this, and would add:

What does "red" mean? HOW red? Candy apple red? Brick red? Burgundy? This applies to the pants and the van.

I can't think of the last time I saw a red van that was not a work van. Burgundy, yes, but bright red? No.
 
thank you sillybilly...i don't know why i always seem to follow the cases that are impossible to sleuth much less explain.

to me the article more points to the demographics and culture of this situation. the community is heavily crime-ridden but her particular faction (see the pictures in the article if you & others can) says they "take care of their own" which would point not to a familial/familiar abduction. yet the chances of a stranger/predator being in that exact location, populated by plenty of after-schoolers, who didn't obviously have time to study/track/watch her before grabbing within say 10 minutes, is also slim.

anyone who knows my posts over the years know i ALWAYS suspect those we cannot discuss. i think this is the first time i DON'T suspect a parent. i'm being totally serious. anyone else drinking the confusion kool-aid with me?

(it's nice to see you, bravo!!!)
 
tazikigirl said:
I just joined (although I swear I was a member years and years ago) to see if anyone here had insight on this case. It's been awful on social media and I can't take the stupidity or cruelty anymore.

I've watched this story since it first broke as a local Patch story the afternoon it happened.

I can add a few clarifications to what I've read here so far.

One is that the boyfriend of the mother (father of her unborn child) was detained by ICE because he is undocumented, not because he a suspect. I'm sure he hit their radar while being questioned as part of the normal process of eliminating the usual suspects.

This is, with almost 100% certainty, the reason why no witnesses came forward and the reason the family was so reluctant to get police involved. The community itself has many immigrants and many undocumented immigrants. In my opinion, the police made a TERRIBLE mistake allowing the boyfriend to get taken into ICE custody, even if that wasn't their intention. It will be VERY difficult to find any other witnesses from this point forward.

The older child in the car, from what I've read, may have been the aunt of the missing girl. So when people say it was "her sister" perhaps they mean the mother's sister. I can't say that with 100% certainty.

The initial reports of what Dulce was last seen wearing (at least in the Amber Alert) were incorrect. Oddly enough, they were correct in local media. The first page of this thread should probably be updated to reflect what she was actually last seen wearing (yellow shirt with an *elephant on the front, black and white checkered pants, white shoes) as can be verified by the surveillance video.

The FATHER of Dulce is the man who was called on the phone and who doesn't speak English. He moved back to Mexico to go to school, according to the family.

<modsnip: Please don't discuss social media comments>

Given that the kids were playing near a basketball court, the man's outfit might not have seemed all that crazy. Had he been wearing all beige or a business suit, he would've stood out way more.

Here's what concerns me:

I do agree with what some of you have stated that people in the community may know this man or may have made him up entirely because they know the real perpetrator and don't want to give him up.

I think due to the pending deportation of the mother's partner, the chances of getting any more witnesses to talk is now going to be next to impossible.

Has anyone looked at a map to try to understand the layout of this park and where the van would've been vs the playground and the outbuildings? Where the nearest escape routes are, etc.?

<modsnip: Sleuthing social media of family is not allowed>

I know this is long and I hope it's not rude to just jump in. Also, hello!! :)

Edited: corrected the animal on the front of the shirt...not butterfly...elephant!
Click to expand...


Welcome. Nice post.
 
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sillybilly said:
While the "guy in the store" is interesting, do not make insinuations, inferences, or direct accusations. Just be exceptionally careful in how you refer to this person. They could well be a totally innocent bystander and they have not been named a POI or suspect by LE.
Click to expand...
I agree on that. Personally I don't think there is enough to go on in the 2 videos. Of course if he shows up in other videos or pictures then it's on!

And I am not sold on the amber alert description. Eye witness accounts can be very sketchy. Would love to have a make or model of the van.

Thank you for your response.
 
tazikigirl said:
I just joined (although I swear I was a member years and years ago) to see if anyone here had insight on this case. It's been awful on social media and I can't take the stupidity or cruelty anymore.

I've watched this story since it first broke as a local Patch story the afternoon it happened.

I can add a few clarifications to what I've read here so far.

One is that the boyfriend of the mother (father of her unborn child) was detained by ICE because he is undocumented, not because he a suspect. I'm sure he hit their radar while being questioned as part of the normal process of eliminating the usual suspects.

This is, with almost 100% certainty, the reason why no witnesses came forward and the reason the family was so reluctant to get police involved. The community itself has many immigrants and many undocumented immigrants. In my opinion, the police made a TERRIBLE mistake allowing the boyfriend to get taken into ICE custody, even if that wasn't their intention. It will be VERY difficult to find any other witnesses from this point forward.

The older child in the car, from what I've read, may have been the aunt of the missing girl. So when people say it was "her sister" perhaps they mean the mother's sister. I can't say that with 100% certainty.

The initial reports of what Dulce was last seen wearing (at least in the Amber Alert) were incorrect. Oddly enough, they were correct in local media. The first page of this thread should probably be updated to reflect what she was actually last seen wearing (yellow shirt with an *elephant on the front, black and white checkered pants, white shoes) as can be verified by the surveillance video.

The FATHER of Dulce is the man who was called on the phone and who doesn't speak English. He moved back to Mexico to go to school, according to the family.

<modsnip: Please don't discuss social media comments>

Given that the kids were playing near a basketball court, the man's outfit might not have seemed all that crazy. Had he been wearing all beige or a business suit, he would've stood out way more.

Here's what concerns me:

I do agree with what some of you have stated that people in the community may know this man or may have made him up entirely because they know the real perpetrator and don't want to give him up.

I think due to the pending deportation of the mother's partner, the chances of getting any more witnesses to talk is now going to be next to impossible.

Has anyone looked at a map to try to understand the layout of this park and where the van would've been vs the playground and the outbuildings? Where the nearest escape routes are, etc.?

<modsnip: Sleuthing social media of family is not allowed>

I know this is long and I hope it's not rude to just jump in. Also, hello!! :)

Edited: corrected the animal on the front of the shirt...not butterfly...elephant!
Click to expand...
I agree with what you said but mom does not have custody. That is reported by her a page or 2 back.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
white rabbit said:
thank you sillybilly. it's nj.com, not a blog. it addresses mom's behavior and living situation as well as discussing her parents, boyfriend, and DMA's father. All in factual form, not gossip.

"As the search expanded Tuesday, a few spectators grew angry when they saw Alavez Perez eating pizza, she said. They questioned how she could eat while her child was missing. She didn’t respond, but she heard the remarks. Alavez Perez had gone without food since her daughter disappeared the previous day, she said."

“They’re saying I didn’t love my kids and I just gave my kids away to someone … and that supposedly my mom was prostituting me,” Alavez Perez said during a phone interview Thursday."

Alavez Perez is 5 months pregnant and the father of that child was detained in federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement custody this week after he was interviewed by police about the disappearance, she said. While she indicated she didn’t know why he was detained, the Inquirer reported that she said authorities discovered he was an undocumented Mexican citizen.

Alavez Perez, who lives in an apartment near her parents, shares joint custody of Dulce with her mom and the kids live with her parents.

When she gave birth to Dulce at age 14, her parents had Dulce live with them because they didn’t think their daughter was responsible enough to care for her, she said. They love Dulce as if she is their own daughter, she said.

The entire family is struggling as they wait for word from police."
Click to expand...
I hope wherever this sweet little Angel is that she is alive,and safe. Glad the FBI is on it.
 
Elliot_Alderson said:
People are disgusting. MOO
Click to expand...

agreed but the purpose of posting the article was not to acknowledge the haters...read more into "it takes a village" in raising kids within that community. i just don't see any familial/familiar involvement which is my personal nature in these cases. but a stranger? that would be the crime of ultimate opportunity given the location/time/circumstance, IMO. almost impossible opportunity. how did a predator know that mom was still in the car and not walking towards the playground? or that one of the basketball players wouldn't come after "him"???
 
“I didn’t want them telling me things and be more depressed than I am now,” she said Thursday morning.

“They think I did something to her. I really love her a lot. I don’t know why they are judging me.”

“They’re saying I didn’t love my kids and I just gave my kids away to someone … and that supposedly my mom was prostituting me,” Alavez Perez said during a phone interview Thursday.

The woman’s car was towed from the park for inspection.

“We wanted to make sure the car was free of any evidence or if there’s anything in there that we could use towards determining how this happened,” Gaimari said.

“Everything is really rough. We’re praying a lot,” Alavez Perez said. “The person who has her … he has to realize that she is just a little girl. She’s innocent.”
Mom of missing 5-year-old Dulce Alavez avoiding public after critical comments about her behavior
 
tazikigirl said:
Has anyone looked at a map to try to understand the layout of this park and where the van would've been vs the playground and the outbuildings? Where the nearest escape routes are, etc.?
Click to expand...

I too am a new member from the South Jersey area, found this whole case particularly disturbing. Alas I haven't been down to Bridgeton much myself, though apparently I have a long family history there dating back to the 1800s. Mostly known for a large minority population (particularly immigrants, documented or not), poverty, low employment, a state prison, and crime (higher than 95% of other municipalities nationwide). Often known locally as rural Camden.

Anyhow, I looked over the maps and some other pictures of the park people posted in Google Reviews. I was planning on posting these pics shortly. In the mean time, I'm trying to draw possible escape routes and color coding where events allegedly took place.

If I had to guess why mom's car was towed, it's because a lot of people down that way, particularly undocumented immigrants, drive without a license or insurance. Being that she seems to have no known income source of her own, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case here.
 
white rabbit said:
The child’s mother, Noema Alavez Perez, is 5-months pregnant and the father of that child was interviewed by investigators, Alavez Perez said Thursday. He is now in Immigration and Customs Enforcement custody in Newark, she said.

She doesn’t know details of why he was detained. He doesn’t speak English and she helped translate for him by phone, Alavez Perez said.

Missing 5-year-old Dulce Alavez’s mom says her boyfriend was detained by ICE
Click to expand...
I hate this for them!
 
tazikigirl said:
I just joined (although I swear I was a member years and years ago) to see if anyone here had insight on this case. It's been awful on social media and I can't take the stupidity or cruelty anymore.

I've watched this story since it first broke as a local Patch story the afternoon it happened.

I can add a few clarifications to what I've read here so far.

One is that the boyfriend of the mother (father of her unborn child) was detained by ICE because he is undocumented, not because he a suspect. I'm sure he hit their radar while being questioned as part of the normal process of eliminating the usual suspects.

This is, with almost 100% certainty, the reason why no witnesses came forward and the reason the family was so reluctant to get police involved. The community itself has many immigrants and many undocumented immigrants. In my opinion, the police made a TERRIBLE mistake allowing the boyfriend to get taken into ICE custody, even if that wasn't their intention. It will be VERY difficult to find any other witnesses from this point forward.

The older child in the car, from what I've read, may have been the aunt of the missing girl. So when people say it was "her sister" perhaps they mean the mother's sister. I can't say that with 100% certainty.

The initial reports of what Dulce was last seen wearing (at least in the Amber Alert) were incorrect. Oddly enough, they were correct in local media. The first page of this thread should probably be updated to reflect what she was actually last seen wearing (yellow shirt with an *elephant on the front, black and white checkered pants, white shoes) as can be verified by the surveillance video.

The FATHER of Dulce is the man who was called on the phone and who doesn't speak English. He moved back to Mexico to go to school, according to the family.

<modsnip: Please don't discuss social media comments>

Given that the kids were playing near a basketball court, the man's outfit might not have seemed all that crazy. Had he been wearing all beige or a business suit, he would've stood out way more.

Here's what concerns me:

I do agree with what some of you have stated that people in the community may know this man or may have made him up entirely because they know the real perpetrator and don't want to give him up.

I think due to the pending deportation of the mother's partner, the chances of getting any more witnesses to talk is now going to be next to impossible.

Has anyone looked at a map to try to understand the layout of this park and where the van would've been vs the playground and the outbuildings? Where the nearest escape routes are, etc.?

<modsnip: Sleuthing social media of family is not allowed>

I know this is long and I hope it's not rude to just jump in. Also, hello!! :)

Edited: corrected the animal on the front of the shirt...not butterfly...elephant!
Click to expand...
Welcome @tazikigirl Or welcome back. Maybe this will help with the park and escape routes. I posted this map back a ways but will again. LE mentioned van was seen leaving on Burt Street, which shoes here is near the playground and the basketball court. Also the buildings can be seen in the satellite image.

Google Maps
 
Last edited by a moderator:
SJSleuth said:
I too am a new member from the South Jersey area, found this whole case particularly disturbing. Alas I haven't been down to Bridgeton much myself, though apparently I have a long family history there dating back to the 1800s. Mostly known for a large minority population (particularly immigrants, documented or not), poverty, low employment, a state prison, and crime (higher than 95% of other municipalities nationwide). Often known locally as rural Camden.

Anyhow, I looked over the maps and some other pictures of the park people posted in Google Reviews. I was planning on posting these pics shortly. In the mean time, I'm trying to draw possible escape routes and color coding where events allegedly took place.

If I had to guess why mom's car was towed, it's because a lot of people down that way, particularly undocumented immigrants, drive without a license or insurance. Being that she seems to have no known income source of her own, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case here.
Click to expand...

Welcome to WS!

Are there houses around the perimeter of the park?
 
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