NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#30

[LauraMars]

Thinking about why someone would use FaceTime instead of a normal phone call - perhaps the perp thought that because FaceTime works through wi-fi only, it would not be traceable as a 3G call is?

I reckon he thought it might not be traceable that way CaseClosed.

"The affidavit details how police discovered evidence of the alleged 1min 23sec call after retrieving information from Baden-Clay's iPhone using a Cellebrite Universal Forensic Examination Device.

That evidence showed that the phone had been used to make the FaceTime call that night. FaceTime allows users to see each other while talking and calls are not listed in conventional phone records, Sgt Roddick said."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/gerard-baden-clays-parents-refused-to-give-interviews-during-effort-to-death-of-allison-baden-clay-court-documents-claim/story-e6frea8c-1226413294650

 

[Even]

Forgetting about all this right to remain silent & lawyering up etc just for a sec...in my opinion, if a decent, honest human being is completely innocent & has nothing to hide, they sit down with police & tell them everything they know or are aware of. To not do this it is instantly showing you are hiding something from police & you are being dishonest.

Now, it seems GBC has made that video call to NBC's phone...he obviously wasn't calling Santa Claus as the call can only be to whoever was in that house that night at the time detected......either NBC, EBC, or even OW & her pastor husband if they were staying there at the time.

I hope police arrest the whole damn lot of them...this would make the five Paul Tully mentioned on his blog weeks back....

"""There is even a suggestion in legal circles that up to 5 people may be under investigation over the murder, including accessories after the fact"""

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

I thought exactly as you before having a session with the police where I was a suspect. It is not a nice little discussion where you sit down and calmly tell them your story without interruption. It is a to and throw with one or two PCs who from the get go, look to unsettle you, will claim inference from nothing, pull you back when in the middle of making a point, to ask about an earlier point, any subtle differences in what you say are made into a big issue. e.g. "last time you said your girl friend left at 9:45am but now you saying just before 10." It seems as if you are unsure what time she left. I can tell you by the time 2 hours have passed you're not 100% sure of anything.

If you want to "tell" your story and get across all the information you want to get across then IMO, you do this via a lawyer, and issue a detailed statement.

The issue I have with GBC and NBC is not that they lawyer up, but that they do not subsequently issue the questions the police have asked, in a detailed statement via their lawyer.

 

[Even]

...Maybe he has some of that tape duct duck tape or whatever it is called. And my theory is she got in bed and he did the cuddle up to get closer then he sat on her chest gagged her mouth but he had not thought about the hands grabbing at him and he then did his damage...

Given how hard I find it to remove adhesive from skin when doing DIY I'm sure if he duct taped her mouth the autopsy would show remains of glue ?

 

[minni]

CC, it doesn't gel does it? It would mean eveerything happened earlier in the evening,and I think it would definately have to implicate other family members. Someone to come get NBC after he's been getting his hands dirty, so to speak. And someone to have dropped him there. OW , EBC or TM would def have to have involvement. Maybe the 'five involved ' is more than a rumour?

 

[CaseClosed]

My latest assumptions are:

ABC arrived home after hairdressers and they all had dinner. Kids went to bed somewhere between 7:30-9:00 pm. Discussions about affair, next day's conference attended by TM, even maybe divorce, escalate into loud argument at around 10:00-10:30 pm (Footy Show is playing in the background). Maybe the TV volume is loud enough to disguise the argument. ABC subsequently storms off to bed. The perp plans his next move and sizes an opportunity to strangle or suffocate (no noise) her around 11:30-12:00 pm while she sleeps. She manages to scratch his chest, face and the palms of his hands trying to release his grip. Perp panics and contacts someone at seniors house (most probably father), using FaceTime (wi-fi internet) thinking it would not be traceable by authorities. He + someone else (woman) come over. ABC is dressed, probably with the help of a woman, into walking gear. Woman stays home in case the girls wake up. Captiva with body in the back drives off, with Prado trailing behind with dimmed lights due to earlier front end damage. Both dispose of body under the bridge (caterpillars bite the perp whilst walking through bushes) then return home to do the necessary staging and get the story straight for early morning call to police. Others go home. All is just speculation.

 

[KG1]

I know we have had local confirmation that someone saw NBC at the bus stop, but I am still not convinced this is the case. From memory, he was allegedly seen there at around 11:00pm/12:00am. If this is the case, why the FaceTime call to seniors house at 12:30 or so? It just doesn't add up IMO.

Has it been said that the call was to NBC at his house? I understood that it was reported that a Face Time call was from GBC's phone to NBCs phone. If it was known where the phones were then I think QPS would be half way there. JMO

 

[CaseClosed]

I thought exactly as you before having a session with the police where I was a suspect. It is not a nice little discussion where you sit down and calmly tell them your story without interruption. It is a to and throw with one or two PCs who from the get go, look to unsettle you, will claim inference from nothing, pull you back when in the middle of making a point, to ask about an earlier point, any subtle differences in what you say are made into a big issue. e.g. "last time you said your girl friend left at 9:45am but now you saying just before 10." It seems as if you are unsure what time she left. I can tell you by the time 2 hours have passed you're not 100% sure of anything.

If you want to "tell" your story and get across all the information you want to get across then IMO, you do this via a lawyer, and issue a detailed statement.

The issue I have with GBC and NBC is not that they lawyer up, but that they do not subsequently issue the questions the police have asked, in a detailed statement via their lawyer.

I agree. I would lawyer up immediately if I had the slightest inkling that police were treating me as a suspect and I would fully co-operate with them through my lawyer.

 

[minni]

And so that call realistically could had been to any of them from any of them, who knows?for all we know, Olivia could have been at the house with the phone, and used it to ring EBC and tell her to pick up NBC? Or after the deed, GBC could have realised they forgot something, and called nbc back, hence the timeframe of up till 4.30 that morningand they had to go back to roundabout or just =bc went back , maybe left blankets in bins ?
Sorry I just woke up and had a look on here, saw Casecloseds post, and now I'm rambling on my tiny keypad!! Back to bed for me !

 

[CaseClosed]

CC, it doesn't gel does it? It would mean eveerything happened earlier in the evening,and I think it would definately have to implicate other family members. Someone to come get NBC after he's been getting his hands dirty, so to speak. And someone to have dropped him there. OW , EBC or TM would def have to have involvement. Maybe the 'five involved ' is more than a rumour?

I don't think TM is involved. I see 3 only ... 2 men and 1 woman (but I'm not sure which woman). IMO.

 

[brookster]

Those toys neatly aligned have been placed in the car after the car was last driven, otherwise the crates would have moved back-forward-side-to-side once you turn one corner or roundabout (unless police aligned them for the photo, but I don't think they would do that). IMO.

As I have confirmed, and has been confirmed in MSM subsequently(sorry no link for that now), the Captiva was mostly driven by Allison. This would most probably have been the car she drove to the hairdresser and back that night.

This would mean that more than likely those toys were placed in the car AFTER she returned home on Thursday night from hairdresser, just by the looks of how neatly they were stacked. After a drive to/from Kenmore, they wouldn't have looked this way.
SO

Either: Allison herself put the toys in the car, after she got back from hairdressers, ready to take to her friend the next day - as friend reported in msm (perhaps this was what Allison was going to be dropping off?) Her friend would have confirmed this and QPS would be aware of the reason for these being in the back of the car.

IF the car was used to carry Allison's body, the murderer could have removed the toys, moved the body, and replaced the toys neatly to make it look like everything was left untouched.

OR

They were placed by GBC to cover up the evidence. Somehow these look too structured and not close enough to the edges to actually cover up the sides where the stains were seen. If it was a cover up I would have expected soft toys out of boxes, up against and covering up the sides where the main stains were.

My feeling is that Allison was going to be taking these toys to her friend the next day, perhaps for a child/ren of a specific age, since the toys were limited to an agegroup/type. She took them out to her car in preparation for the next day, AFTER she returned from the hairdressers. They might then have been removed in order for her to be taken away , and then replaced VERY neatly and TOO precisely afterwards, by murderer.

 

[CaseClosed]

Has it been said that the call was to NBC at his house? I understood that it was reported that a Face Time call was from GBC's phone to NBCs phone. If it was known where the phones were then I think QPS would be half way there. JMO

No, we don't know where each individual was at the time (or where each device was).

 

[bearbear]

Re. The 'alibi'....How does that then fit with the 'went to bed at 10pm & slept like a log til 6am'?

because he probably had a different story for his father and another to tell the police in the morning. wasnt it reported he had 4 different stories. he could have rung nbc and wailed allisons stormed off again, im really worried about her shes depressed again, can you help me look for her, and then in the morning told police the other story.
thats if the sighting of nbc is true, it did come from 2 different people who seemed very sure of their sources, although it is hard to fit in with the new facetime etc info.

 

[bearbear]

From memory the story went that NBC acted "oddly" at the bus stop (which to me sounded as though he was probably freaking out that someone he knew saw him). I'm not sure where the "looking distressed" part came from - I wonder if squizzey or biker chick could verify (bearing in mind this was a rumour not a reported fact)?

im sure he was said to be crying and confused as well as acting oddly. didnt one of the persons who saw him say that, so they asked him if he needed help? i cant remember who posted it though, it seems ages ago!

 

[CaseClosed]

As I have confirmed, and has been confirmed in MSM subsequently(sorry no link for that now), the Captiva was mostly driven by Allison. This would most probably have been the car she drove to the hairdresser and back that night.

This would mean that more than likely those toys were placed in the car AFTER she returned home on Thursday night from hairdresser, just by the looks of how neatly they were stacked. After a drive to/from Kenmore, they wouldn't have looked this way.
SO

Either: Allison herself put the toys in the car, after she got back from hairdressers, ready to take to her friend the next day - as friend reported in msm (perhaps this was what Allison was going to be dropping off?) Her friend would have confirmed this and QPS would be aware of the reason for these being in the back of the car.

IF the car was used to carry Allison's body, the murderer could have removed the toys, moved the body, and replaced the toys neatly to make it look like everything was left untouched.

OR

They were placed by GBC to cover up the evidence. Somehow these look too structured and not close enough to the edges to actually cover up the sides where the stains were seen. If it was a cover up I would have expected soft toys out of boxes, up against and covering up the sides where the main stains were.

My feeling is that Allison was going to be taking these toys to her friend the next day, perhaps for a child/ren of a specific age, since the toys were limited to an agegroup/type. She took them out to her car in preparation for the next day, AFTER she returned from the hairdressers. They might then have been removed in order for her to be taken away , and then replaced VERY neatly and TOO precisely afterwards, by murderer.

Yes, I agree with your last paragraph.

 

[jubillee]

Seems like some gamesmanship is going on.. But from who is the question

http://www.news.com.au/national/ger...-has-to-meet-him/story-e6frfkvr-1226413921339

 

[itsthevibe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Even
I thought exactly as you before having a session with the police where I was a suspect. It is not a nice little discussion where you sit down and calmly tell them your story without interruption. It is a to and throw with one or two PCs who from the get go, look to unsettle you, will claim inference from nothing, pull you back when in the middle of making a point, to ask about an earlier point, any subtle differences in what you say are made into a big issue. e.g. "last time you said your girl friend left at 9:45am but now you saying just before 10." It seems as if you are unsure what time she left. I can tell you by the time 2 hours have passed you're not 100% sure of anything.

If you want to "tell" your story and get across all the information you want to get across then IMO, you do this via a lawyer, and issue a detailed statement.

The issue I have with GBC and NBC is not that they lawyer up, but that they do not subsequently issue the questions the police have asked, in a detailed statement via their lawyer.

I agree. I would lawyer up immediately if I had the slightest inkling that police were treating me as a suspect and I would fully co-operate with them through my lawyer.

I disagree. Even would lawyer up because he/she has had that experience already and knows what it's like. The average person who has never been interviewed by police before wouldn't know it would be like that. An innocent person would be more focussed on finding their loved one, or would be so wracked with genuine grief they wouldnt be thinking about self-protection, they would be thinking only of their lost loved one.

IMO he lawyered up because he was guilty. He remained silent because he was guilty. Innocent people don't behave the way he did. If he is innocent, it is incredibly weird that he has behaved as a guilty person would behave the entire way through. What are the odds?

 

[marlywings]

I thought exactly as you before having a session with the police where I was a suspect. It is not a nice little discussion where you sit down and calmly tell them your story without interruption. It is a to and throw with one or two PCs who from the get go, look to unsettle you, will claim inference from nothing, pull you back when in the middle of making a point, to ask about an earlier point, any subtle differences in what you say are made into a big issue. e.g. "last time you said your girl friend left at 9:45am but now you saying just before 10." It seems as if you are unsure what time she left. I can tell you by the time 2 hours have passed you're not 100% sure of anything.

If you want to "tell" your story and get across all the information you want to get across then IMO, you do this via a lawyer, and issue a detailed statement.

The issue I have with GBC and NBC is not that they lawyer up, but that they do not subsequently issue the questions the police have asked, in a detailed statement via their lawyer.

But you did the right thing by going to police to tell them your story. Where you mentioned this "looking to unsettle you, pulling you back"...I just see this as them wanting to clarify certain points which in my opinion is understandable.

By not going to police, by not even attempting to give them a statement, be that personally or through a lawyer...you are hiding something & not being honest.

The info about the video call was pulled up only hours before the bail hearing....NBC had all those weeks to tell police about that call...but didn't....thought they would get away with that one & it would never be detected.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

This is a screen shot of the toys - does anyone have an opinion about them. I have lots to say but would love your feedback

View attachment 24167

Is it just me that thought it was odd to have that amount of toys just hanging around in the back of your car?? I thought it at the time and said something to my Mother, when I was speaking to her..it didn't strike her as odd, but then I don't think she saw the image. The thought that crossed my mind was whether she was packing to leave and something happened to her(I.E. her husband allededly killed her).

MOO

But then on second thoughts..if the car was driven that night to dispose of Allisons body, than toys and crates probably are unlikely to be remaining in that position without tipping or rolling etc..interesting..

 

[marlywings]

Gerard Baden-Clay hires high-profile Gold Coast lawyer Chris Nyst to defend charges he murdered wife Allison

July 02, 2012 12:00AM

ACCUSED wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay is bringing in celebrity lawyer Chris Nyst as a legal adviser as he steps up the fight for his innocence.
But Mr Nyst - who has acted for high-profile defendants including "Postcard Bandit" Brenden Abbott, One Nation founder Pauline Hanson, the Gold Coast's Lacey brothers and tennis star Bernard Tomic - has so far been refused an audience with the alleged murderer

The Courier-Mail can reveal the Gold Coast lawyer, author and filmmaker was turned away by prison authorities when he tried to see Baden-Clay in Brisbane's Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre last week.

Mr Nyst yesterday slammed Corrective Services' refusal to let him see his would-be client, who hired another Gold Coast criminal lawyer, Darren Mahony, soon after his wife Allison Baden-Clay disappeared in April.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/baden-clays-lawyer-barred/story-e6freoof-1226413880866

 

[bearbear]

another scenario, if the plastic bag and water in lungs rumours are true,
allison came home from hairdressers, it was reported recently she left about 6.30pm, had a quick tea with the girls, maybe takeaways, made their lunches and got things ready for friday, settled the girls into bed,. its around 10pm, the loud arguing starts, allison goes outside so it doesnt wake the girls, he follows her and it escalates, she storms back inside and runs a bath, maybe a glass of wine to unwind in the bath. if she didnt have a shower cap, she could have used a plastic bag over her hair to stop the steam, maybe there was more arguing, or just seething silence, the killer pulls the bag over her head pushing her under water, drowning, suffocating and strangling her, she fights for her life scratching hard, breaking her nails and chipping her tooth on the bath or tap. the bag is kept on her head because the killer doesnt want to see her face and makes it less personal. he dresses her in her walking clothes and either carries or drags her body down the stairs and out to the car, remembering the footy show is on tv, so thats his alibi. he drives her to kholo creek, leaving the girls alone, and drags and rolls her down the bank to up under the bridge to where she is found.
he gets back home all hyped up, covered in scratches from allison and the bushes and possibly catterpillar bites. he goes crazy on the car with the bleach spray, then stages the toys in the back of the car.
maybe by this time he thinks to call nbc and tell him allisons stormed off and hes worried etc, can he help him find her? another alibi?
maybe one of the girls called nbc like someone suggested, because she woke and no one was home?
i still cant fit nbc at the roundabout in this version of events though or the two cars spotted at the roundabout?