No Flames - Innocent until proven guilty

[Anais]

While I hate to be the one to say it - we all have to realize that our judicial system is set up as KC is innocent until the prosecutors prove without a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of killing Caylee. Yes, I know emotions are running high - especially after the judgement that came down from the Grand Jury - but folks she is still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Do I personally believe she can have a fair trial here in Orlando - nope, absolutely not. They will have to probably move the case to one of our smaller, rural counties to get an impartial jury. Do I personally think that she is guilty of someway causing harm to her daughter and causing her death - yes - but in a court of law she is innocent. Even though in the eyes of the public she is guilty - we all have to understand what makes our country great. Having a fair and even judicial system.

Any thoughts? Do you think she can get a fair trial?

Okay while I do see your point and agree that it is a valid one I have some comments to make. I strongly disagree and do believe that Casey can get a fair and impartial jury. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous IMO. Take the OJ case for example. Regardless of what we the public all thought, the jury found otherwise. (I am speaking of the murder trial.) We did have a similar type high profile murder case not far from me last year where a man had poisoned his wife and killed her, the case was still held locally and a fair and impartial jury was assembled.

Okay my next point is that although Casey is innocent of murder until proven guilty in a court of law, regardless she is still guilty of neglecting her daughter Caylee which left that innocent baby's life in jeopardy which one way or another led to her death. Whether or not Casey directly or in a pre-meditated fashion caused her death is yet to be proven.

JMHO

 

[STEADFAST]

Let's get back to CAYLEE. We spend far too much time on Casey and Cindy while CAYLEE needs to be found. CAYLEE
is the reason we are here. Right?????????

I don't see how discussing Caylee will help her to be found. She was too young to take off on her own. Discussing those close to her, those who had control over her may, on the other hand, lead us to her.

Discussing the actions and the manifestations of personality of Caylee's guardians and their associates in no way violates "innocent until proven guilty."

 

[gardenhart]

I don't see how discussing Caylee will help her to be found. She was too young to take off on her own. Discussing those close to her, those who had control over her may, on the other hand, lead us to her.

Discussing the actions and the manifestations of personality of Caylee's guardians and their associates in no way violates "innocent until proven guilty."

Absolutely right, Steadfast. This board would be pretty empty if nothing was discussed except Caylee herself and it sure wouldn't lead to much in the way of sleuthing.

Nothing said here will have any effect on innocent until proven guilty because we're not jurors in this case.

You know, Baez keeps complaining about the press coverage supposedly making this difficult for a fair trial, but he certainly does his share of talking to the media, holding press conferences and so on. And that's not to mention the rest of the Anthony family.

But then defense attorneys often make that same complaint because it gives them a chance to make it look to the public like their clients are underdogs being picked on by the media. It's the same reason why we keep hearing that LE is "leaking" public documents.

 

[elfie]

I'm not the first person to point this out, but the trunk forensics are not yet public documents to my knowledge. I have no doubt that they exist and are exactly as they are being reported but I don't think anyone is doing themselves any favors by not being objective.

 

[LoriC73]

IMO, it will be difficult for KC to get a fair trial anywhere. The evidence that we know of is damning-from the smell, to the air test results, hair with decomp showing, and KC's actions in the month following Caylee's disappearance (from dancing at Fusian to writing stolen checks). Add this to the media coverage, and this all adds up to potential jurors already walking around with a judgment one way or the other about KC.
IMO, they would need to move this trial to another country for it to even seem fair.

 

[websurfer]

that applies to people who really are innocent..
not those who are on a video actually shown wearing and stealing scamming people,.
many people caught in the act on hidden cameras at least have the decency to admit they have committed a crime & fess up.

I feel for Amy H.
She has had to deal with a notorious criminal whom she befriended and had to listen to fairy tales and i mean, unreal...
I am not usually harsh about such issues.
But this woman actually wears the stuff she stole!
on telivision & acted like a high and mighty celebrity?
Why??
No mention ,no plea for Caylee's return?
She is guilty of many things indeed..
I do not like KOOL_AID so i do not follow her lies nor fall for them.
I see her for who she is.
Her devil wings are clipped....
glad that the protesters can go home now...
the trial will be a side show like the circus we saw for the last 4 months...
She brought this upon herself.She has no one to blame but herself...

 

[servingothers]

Okay while I do see your point and agree that it is a valid one I have some comments to make. I strongly disagree and do believe that Casey can get a fair and impartial jury. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous IMO. Take the OJ case for example. Regardless of what we the public all thought, the jury found otherwise. (I am speaking of the murder trial.) We did have a similar type high profile murder case not far from me last year where a man had poisoned his wife and killed her, the case was still held locally and a fair and impartial jury was assembled.

Okay my next point is that although Casey is innocent of murder until proven guilty in a court of law, regardless she is still guilty of neglecting her daughter Caylee which left that innocent baby's life in jeopardy which one way or another led to her death. Whether or not Casey directly or in a pre-meditated fashion caused her death is yet to be proven.

JMHO

Casey has been charged with neglect. That has not gone to court. She is innocent of that charge also until proven guilty. That is she is innocent under our laws until a court and jury find her guilty.

 

[servingothers]

I don't see how discussing Caylee will help her to be found. She was too young to take off on her own. Discussing those close to her, those who had control over her may, on the other hand, lead us to her.

Discussing the actions and the manifestations of personality of Caylee's guardians and their associates in no way violates "innocent until proven guilty."

My point is that our justice system allows for someone to be innocent until proven guilty. Yes, we can have our opinions and express them. However, our even if opinions are valid and under our constitution we can say just about anything under free speech, is that what we are purposing here on this site? Are we going to inject our senarios as to what happened without the facts to dictate our discussions are will we channel our ideas to looking for CAYLEE? Is this a gossip site? That's what it is starting to appear but that is not what I believe the intent of those who started this site was for.
You are free to do what you will. I would just like to stay focused on CAYLEE. I wish I personally could go looking under the brush for her.

Can anyone direct me to a thread that has facts and not spin so I can concentrate on that? Thanks

 

[Siren]

Can anyone help me answer the following questions:

Is Cindy an RN, LVN, LPN, NA etc? The word nurse has been tossed around, but what is her educational background? If she's an RN, does she have her BSN? What clinical area is Cindy's specialty? What clinical settings has Cindy worked? (Hospital, management, medical office, etc)

Why did George leave law enforcement? What was the highest rank he achieved? In what area of law enforcement did George work? (ie, patrol, burglary, homocide, etc.)

Thanks fellow sleuthers!

 

[LCoastMom]

I think the fact that there are people here who still believe Caylee is alive (KC is innocent) speaks volumes about her ability to get a fair trial. These are fellow sleuths who have read the same information as everyone else, yet haven't read the necessary evidence to believe Caylee is dead, let alone murdered by KC.

As long as those people could sit in a court room, listen to the evidence and believe LE has done their job. Then convict or acquit according to what the evidence proves. Then KC can get a fair trial.

 

[Wudge]

I might concede that Casey has been tried and convicted by the media. BUT, the media has no sentencing power; The media did not make the arrest, nor create what was real and was really presented to the Grand Jury.

I firmly believe that once inside the Court, people take their sworn duty as jurors very seriously. People have an inate desire to see justice and fairness prevail. They want this for victims but also for defendants.
That is my belief.
Casey can get a fair trial no matter what the media says or does.
Let's reverse it:
The media could start a Casey is railroaded.... Casey is innocent blitz. That would not affect the trial either. jmho

A fair trial is supposed to start off on a footing that is in accord with our system of jurisprudence. Our system of jurisprudence requires prejudice to side with the defendant.

The jury pool has been prejudiced against Casey. Obviously, a fair trial cannot be expected, because prejudice that exists is the opposite of the prejudice the law demands.

HTH

 

[Aleve N Fla]

Okay while I do see your point and agree that it is a valid one I have some comments to make. I strongly disagree and do believe that Casey can get a fair and impartial jury. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous IMO. Take the OJ case for example. Regardless of what we the public all thought, the jury found otherwise. (I am speaking of the murder trial.) We did have a similar type high profile murder case not far from me last year where a man had poisoned his wife and killed her, the case was still held locally and a fair and impartial jury was assembled.

Okay my next point is that although Casey is innocent of murder until proven guilty in a court of law, regardless she is still guilty of neglecting her daughter Caylee which left that innocent baby's life in jeopardy which one way or another led to her death. Whether or not Casey directly or in a pre-meditated fashion caused her death is yet to be proven.

JMHO

Sorry you dont agree with my take on KC getting a fair trial in Orlando. I still stand by my thoughts..... it would be hard to find a jury of her peers here in my beautiful city. That does not mean I dont think a fair trial could be held elsewhere in Florida - you bet it could. Was the high profile case you mention on NG each night - Geraldo - constantly in the newspaper? I truly believe there are so many people here who have already tried KC in the court of public opinion. I would hate our judicial system to be tampered in that way.

And yes - she is guilty of check forging charges, etc. But that is not under
this thread - this thread is about KC having a fair and impartial murder trial here in Orlando - and as a resident I say no.

 

[elfie]

A fair trial is supposed to start off on a footing that is in accord with our system of jurisprudence. Our system of jurisprudence requires prejudice to side with the defendant.

The jury pool has been prejudiced against Casey. Obviously, a fair trial cannot be expected, because prejudice that exists is the opposite of the prejudice the law demands.

HTH

I will try to be more circumspect in my remarks.

 

[Sdavidson11]

As a victim of a violent crime in the state of Florida the Defendant has the upper hand from the start. As far as a fair and impartial jury goes I think one can be found as unlike the Anthony's like to believe the world doesn't revolve around their daughter. Their grandaughter Caylee on the other hand. What AH will have to go endure if they decide to prosecute on the financial charges will probably send her over the edge. They will look into her back ground and make her seem like the bad person even though she is the victim. She will be subjected to humiliating questions and she did nothing but trust a friend. So in closing I have no doubt that Casey will get a fair trial, I just feel sorry for all of those people she chose to bring into this madness with her.

 

[Salbgood]

As a victim of a violent crime in the state of Florida the Defendant has the upper hand from the start. As far as a fair and impartial jury goes I think one can be found as unlike the Anthony's like to believe the world doesn't revolve around their daughter. Their grandaughter Caylee on the other hand. What AH will have to go endure if they decide to prosecute on the financial charges will probably send her over the edge. They will look into her back ground and make her seem like the bad person even though she is the victim. She will be subjected to humiliating questions and she did nothing but trust a friend. So in closing I have no doubt that Casey will get a fair trial, I just feel sorry for all of those people she chose to bring into this madness with her.

Good Point!

 

[gardenhart]

A fair trial is supposed to start off on a footing that is in accord with our system of jurisprudence. Our system of jurisprudence requires prejudice to side with the defendant.

The jury pool has been prejudiced against Casey. Obviously, a fair trial cannot be expected, because prejudice that exists is the opposite of the prejudice the law demands.

HTH

A troublesome issue for defense attorneys is whether a jury pool is so "contaminated" by pretrial publicity that it will be extremely difficult to seat an impartial jury. In Mu'min v. Virginia, 500 U.S. 415, 111 S. Ct. 1899, 114 L. Ed. 2d 493 (1991), the Supreme Court held that the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment does not mandate that prospective jurors be asked in Voir Dire examinations about specific information concerning the case that they have seen or heard in the media. The Sixth Amendment's impartial jury requirement will be satisfied when jurors do not admit during voir dire that they have been prejudiced by pretrial publicity.

Faced with court decisions that make it difficult to prevent the media from reporting pretrial information, courts have several ways of overcoming prejudicial pretrial publicity. One common tactic is for the court to issue an order prohibiting the prosecutor, the defense attorney, and other trial participants from making public comments about the case. Courts often permit extensive juror questionnaires that give both sides the chance to identify persons who have been exposed to pretrial publicity and who have already made up their minds about the guilt or innocence of the defendant. A court also may sequester the jury during the course of the trial. Another tactic is to postpone the trial until publicity dies down. In rare cases a court will change the venue of the trial to a locale less affected by the pretrial publicity.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Pretrial+Publicity

The Court has held that, except in extraordinary cases, publicity is not prejudicial unless a juror actually states an inability to ignore it.
http://law.jrank.org/pages/1889/Pub...al-rules-governing-prejudice-assessments.html

 

[concentric]

As a victim of a violent crime in the state of Florida the Defendant has the upper hand from the start. As far as a fair and impartial jury goes I think one can be found as unlike the Anthony's like to believe the world doesn't revolve around their daughter. Their grandaughter Caylee on the other hand. What AH will have to go endure if they decide to prosecute on the financial charges will probably send her over the edge. They will look into her back ground and make her seem like the bad person even though she is the victim. She will be subjected to humiliating questions and she did nothing but trust a friend. So in closing I have no doubt that Casey will get a fair trial, I just feel sorry for all of those people she chose to bring into this madness with her.

Thanks for stating that well. I was also revictimized in court, although I was the victim.

 

[Gaia713]

While I hate to be the one to say it - we all have to realize that our judicial system is set up as KC is innocent until the prosecutors prove without a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of killing Caylee. Yes, I know emotions are running high - especially after the judgement that came down from the Grand Jury - but folks she is still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Do I personally believe she can have a fair trial here in Orlando - nope, absolutely not. They will have to probably move the case to one of our smaller, rural counties to get an impartial jury. Do I personally think that she is guilty of someway causing harm to her daughter and causing her death - yes - but in a court of law she is innocent. Even though in the eyes of the public she is guilty - we all have to understand what makes our country great. Having a fair and even judicial system.

Any thoughts? Do you think she can get a fair trial?

Yes, I do think she can get a fair trial. Most jurors go into it with great integrity. I still think Scott Peterson had a better chance of getting off in Modesto than he did in Redwood City as most jurors would bend over backwards to be fair.

 

[karenc333]

While I hate to be the one to say it - we all have to realize that our judicial system is set up as KC is innocent until the prosecutors prove without a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of killing Caylee. Yes, I know emotions are running high - especially after the judgement that came down from the Grand Jury - but folks she is still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Do I personally believe she can have a fair trial here in Orlando - nope, absolutely not. They will have to probably move the case to one of our smaller, rural counties to get an impartial jury. Do I personally think that she is guilty of someway causing harm to her daughter and causing her death - yes - but in a court of law she is innocent. Even though in the eyes of the public she is guilty - we all have to understand what makes our country great. Having a fair and even judicial system.

Any thoughts? Do you think she can get a fair trial?

I do think she will get a fair trial...at least I hope that is the case. Although, I think it will be more difficult to find a jury. And I agree 100% that Casey is innocent until proven guilty...that is the way our justice system works.

 

[Wudge]

A troublesome issue for defense attorneys is whether a jury pool is so "contaminated" by pretrial publicity that it will be extremely difficult to seat an impartial jury. In Mu'min v. Virginia, 500 U.S. 415, 111 S. Ct. 1899, 114 L. Ed. 2d 493 (1991), the Supreme Court held that the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment does not mandate that prospective jurors be asked in Voir Dire examinations about specific information concerning the case that they have seen or heard in the media. The Sixth Amendment's impartial jury requirement will be satisfied when jurors do not admit during voir dire that they have been prejudiced by pretrial publicity.

Faced with court decisions that make it difficult to prevent the media from reporting pretrial information, courts have several ways of overcoming prejudicial pretrial publicity. One common tactic is for the court to issue an order prohibiting the prosecutor, the defense attorney, and other trial participants from making public comments about the case. Courts often permit extensive juror questionnaires that give both sides the chance to identify persons who have been exposed to pretrial publicity and who have already made up their minds about the guilt or innocence of the defendant. A court also may sequester the jury during the course of the trial. Another tactic is to postpone the trial until publicity dies down. In rare cases a court will change the venue of the trial to a locale less affected by the pretrial publicity.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Pretrial+Publicity

The Court has held that, except in extraordinary cases, publicity is not prejudicial unless a juror actually states an inability to ignore it.
http://law.jrank.org/pages/1889/Pub...al-rules-governing-prejudice-assessments.html

You are correct in stating: "The Sixth Amendment's impartial jury requirement will be satisfied when jurors do not admit during voir dire that they have been prejudiced by pretrial publicity." Of course, that represents willful blindness.

Moreover, it's disingenuous to say "courts have several ways of overcoming prejudicial pretrial publicity". The only way to overcome prejudice that is the reverse of what defendants are entitled to is to prevent stealth jurors from being empaneled on a jury. However, no such filter exists to ensure that.

To prevent unlawful prejudice, we should preclude its creation.