NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #3

[Dogface]

That's strange. I come from a family who have always owned legal firearms for many decades and I haven't found one (not even seasoned gun owners) who has even heard of a bump stock until this case.

Maybe it's because I'm from Texas, but I have known about the slide fire for some time. I didn't realize until this it's called a bump stock generically. But as soon as I heard the shots, I knew with almost complete certainty it was a slide fire, there is a slight difference in sound, and you can hear some pattern irregularities when rapid firing.


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[human]

I agree. Until I saw the news about the bump stocks and watched a video of how they worked I had never heard of this fairly simple way to make a semi automatic behave like a fully automatic.

I am still shocked that such a simple modification apparently does the trick.

I am further surprised that previous legislation deemed these devices to be ok to own in some states.

One article I read did say that this method is rather crude because it relies on the user to keep the rhythm going and so jamming of shells could be more common with this method. Which is probably why the shooter had so many weapons ready to go. As soon as one jammed he probably just threw it down and grabbed the next one which he had ready.

Many many times I have said that a weapon could be made automatic and I was laughed at and jeered. It is interesting that all of those gun “experts” were so wrong.

It makes me wonder what other kind of urban legends they hold in their supposed expertise.

 

[m00c0w]

Many many times I have said that a weapon could be made automatic and I was laughed at and jeered. It is interesting that all of those gun “experts” were so wrong.

It makes me wonder what other kind of urban legends they hold in their supposed expertise.

A slide-fire stock does not make a weapon automatic.

 

[JaneEyre]

Here is a good video from GMA that shows some of what a few of you are looking for like investigators combing the outdoor scene and people being transported that night.
Check out @GMA’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/GMA/status/916261393900249091?s=09

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[m00c0w]

Maybe it's because I'm from Texas, but I have known about the slide fire for some time. I didn't realize until this it's called a bump stock generically. But as soon as I heard the shots, I knew with almost complete certainty it was a slide fire, there is a slight difference in sound, and you can hear some pattern irregularities when rapid firing.


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Yep. The cyclic rate was far too slow for a legitimate auto-sear weapon, plus the speeding up and slowing down. I figured it was either bump-fire or a trigger crank.

 

[human]

Yes. After a shooting law enforcement will often use metal detectors to look for bullets buried in the ground.

The bullets being fired in Las Vegas were going faster than the speed of sound. Fast enough to pass through one victim and wound another. Some will be found in the victims. Others will be imbedded in equipment or walls or vehicles.

ETA: Counting the brass shells in the shooters hotel room will give us a precise figure on how many rounds were fired.

When I was a teacher and we did our monthly lockdown drills, we were instructed to have the children arranged so they were not next to each other because bullets will go through them like butter to the next child.

We did this six times a year ever since Columbine.

I have heard from new teachers there is a different approach with something called active shooter. They have learned a lot since Columbine.

My outrage is huge

 

[human]

A slide-fire stock does not make a weapon automatic.

Um hm.

 

[Hatfield]

Federal legislation? All I've read is the ATF approved them in 2010, not that they were legislated.

I dont know. I just heard the devices are legally bought in some states because they have been declared a "part" or something along those lines. Learning about the bump stocks for the first time like most of us.

 

[human]

With as high as bullets are now they would probably drop more money than that. Plus I would think firing this many bullets in a short length of time would weaken the gun's mechanism itself. That is a lot of stress on a firearm because it is heating it up much much more than normal.

It appears that someone who wants to do that may have an agenda.

 

[m00c0w]

Um hm.

There are ways to render a firearm automatic; this isn't that way. The slide-fire stock could essentially be called a rate-of-fire-enhancer. The trigger still has to be pulled for each round fired. It doesn't actually do anything other than enable the shooter to pull the trigger more rapidly. If you pull the trigger once, it will only fire one round. By definition, this makes it absolutely not an automatic weapon.

 

[Jax49]

I dont know. I just heard the devices are legally bought in some states because they have been declared a "part" or something along those lines. Learning about the bump stocks for the first time like most of us.

https://www.slidefire.com/downloads/BATFE.pdf?avad=55097_afac27b1&avad=55097_afaee501

Dept of Justice letter to Slide Fire.

 

[Gardenista]

NRA Backs New Regulations on Rapid-Fire Gun ‘Bump Stocks’

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/l...egulations-rapid-fire-gun-bump-stocks-n808121

 

[human]

I agree. With social media, everyone expects to know everything straight away. I feel it will be months from now and there will still be new details about the case emerging. It is such a horrible act that I think everyone wants an answer to the question "why".

Remember all of the misinformation that has come out on different criminal cases? It is good that they are being careful in what is said.

I imagine it is hard to give out just enough info without giving away sensitive or even incorrect information they may have at this time.

I bet there are people who want to be a part of this that are saying all kinds of things that are not true. I mean supposed people who knew the shooter. Or psychics or neighbors of the multiple homes he owned or people who waited on him or cleaned the rooms. That is a lot of people

 

[KMouse]

The part that is so puzzling to me is when some insinuate the Sheriff is lying or covering up when there is absolutely no evidence of that. I have found him to be a very straight shooter and one who is not going to appease the masses or the media by telling any of them what evidence he already knows.

Imo, he does know SP planned to escape. He has seen the evidence bolstering that belief but he is not nor should he expose the evidence at this time. This is an ongoing investigation and will probably windup being one of the largest in our nation.

He has already made it very clear to the media he knows plenty but he is not going to tell them what he knows or what they have uncovered thus far

To imply he is lying and covering up about anything is very disrespectful to him, all of LE, and to the LV victims themselves.

The leaked photos show very little of the entire crime scene where he died. But even we know many bullets were fired for we all have heard the sound of gunfire as he shot all of these innocent people. This Sheriff has no reason to lie, and he hasn't done so one time, imo. Just because he is not going to reveal all of the evidence he knows already to the public doesn't make him a liar. It makes him a good law enforcement officer.

It is like some really think the LV police should do a walkabout and show them the crimes scene and all of the evidence like it is some silly fictional CSI show. Satisfying the public's 'want to know everything immediately' is not what any police department does. Not just in this case but every case when there is still a large ongoing investigation.

In the end it doesn't matter what any in the public may or may not think. Speculations and assumptions by those not even privy to any of the evidence are merely that, and are unsupported, unsubstantiated assumptions that really mean nothing. The facts will come from the ongoing investigation, and we may not learn of all of the facts for weeks or even months.

JMO

Lombardo has had how much sleep in how many days?
This is a massive investigation involving a massive collection and analysis of evidence. Lombardo isn't out there on his hands and knees doing it himself. There are different branches of the police doing it as well as the FBI who have their own experts. Lombardo gets briefed by his people and the FBI tells him only what he needs to know and he doesn't owe the public anything right now other than to assure them of their safety. I like him, he seems like a no bull type of guy. Give this investigation some time and we will find out when they are good and ready to tell us.

 

[human]

A slide-fire stock does not make a weapon automatic.

My husband could make his 22rifle automatic in a couple of hours. Nothing needed from an internet site. Just skill.

My nephew who is a gunsmith could accomplish it much more quickly.

 

[human]

There are ways to render a firearm automatic; this isn't that way. The slide-fire stock could essentially be called a rate-of-fire-enhancer. The trigger still has to be pulled for each round fired. It doesn't actually do anything other than enable the shooter to pull the trigger more rapidly. If you pull the trigger once, it will only fire one round. By definition, this makes it absolutely not an automatic weapon.

I said a weapon could be made automatic and I was derided.

My husband could do it in a couple of hours. You just said it. A weapon can be made automatic. That is my point to all of the “expert”naysayers

 

[Hiandmighty]

I said a weapon could be made automatic and I was derided.

My husband could do it in a couple of hours. You just said it. A weapon can be made automatic. That is my point to all of the “expert”naysayers

If you have to pull the trigger each time, that is NOT an automatic

 

[komodo]

I'm saying what I've been saying. That the majority of the 200 rounds would have had to pass through the lower portion of the left door, which we cannot see. My issue with that is that 200 rounds would have absolutely decimated that one area. I'm not sure why this is such a contentious notion. I don't think he didn't shoot a considerable number of rounds through the hallway. It just seems like 200 is a very high number for what we see and know. He would have had to have gone through two mag dumps and a mag/weapon change, which would have been over 30 seconds of shooting within the hall, at 6 rounds per second (a generous rate of fire estimate), with a mag change/weapons system change in there. Given that police came up on the security guard "within seconds" of him getting shot (per the sheriff), but were not engaged themselves, there is some contradictory information going on.

:moo:

If I remember correctly from the press conference the number 200 was the sheriff’s personal observation, so I wouldn’t put too much forensic value on it just yet.

 

[komodo]

Also one thing came to mind, where did the shooter try out his arsenal. Did he ever shoot with the bump stock before! Maybe the investigative reporters should be visiting the shooting ranges around his home and asking some questions there

 

[human]

If you have to pull the trigger each time, that is NOT an automatic

I am talking automatic. Since it is illegal, there is no way to show you. My family is filled with engineers so that that has been a topic of conversation many a time.