NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #7

[Cryptic]

Sorry......but you don’t get to use the service elevator as a choice if you’re a preferred guest.

Actually, it depends on the resort and it depends on the preferred guest.

My friend saw numerous celebrities (preferred guests) in service elevators and employee corridors at the resort she worked at. Resort policy forbid employees from outwardly recognizing them or approaching them

Some celebrities value their privacy. Since they are wealthy, the resort accommodated them and let them use employee areas to avoid paparazzi, stares, and even well intentioned fans. Some such guests may never use employee areas, others probably used them routinely.

I"ll bet many resorts with celebrity guests allow them to use employee areas. Likewise, resorts may differ on who they define as a "celebrity". Some resorts may have an exacting definition, other resorts may have a broader definition to include: " relatively wealthy, high maintenance, self important people (comped whales)". SP would fit this definition.

 

[Manterro]

And never mind security guard was investigating a door alarm.One doesn't expect the need to be armed to investigate a door alarm.

Better to have a gun and not need it, than need a gun and not have it. I'm not blaming JC. It's not his fault. He should have been trained properly and issued a firearm. Hotel management is to blame.

 

[Spice]

Last time I checked, bullets can go through wooden doors. Security may not have hit him but shooting back may have scared Paddock enough to stop firing at the crowd and seek cover in the room. Having armed security guards may have saved some lives.

Last time I checked, hotel security guards do not have X ray vision to see through those wooden or (more likely) metal doors. . So shooting blindly toward Paddock could have been an outrageously dumb move as the return fire could have potentially detonated explosive materials or possible homemade bombs the shooter could have had in his room, killing / injuring many more innocent people inside the hotel.

I imagine this is why SWAT is called in and has specific protocols in how they approach these type of crises, in lieu of a wild wild west Rambo response that could worsen and complicate the already deadly situation.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Better to have a gun and not need it, than need a gun and not have it. I'm not blaming JC. It's not his fault. He should have been trained properly and issued a firearm. Hotel management is to blame.

He had no idea who else may have been in that room. Could have been a hostage situation. He's a security guard, not SWAT.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Cryptic]

Better to have a gun and not need it, than need a gun and not have it. I'm not blaming JC. It's not his fault. He should have been trained properly and issued a firearm. Hotel management is to blame.

Hotels routinely have both armed and unarmed security. A former employee related that a resort the size of Mandalay Bay would have several door alarms on a daily basis.

Most such alarms are not impending rampage shooters, but simply guests trying to sneak in another guest to a party area, lost guests, guests trying to take a short cut, employees using a door stop to hold a door open for one reason or another.

In short, I don't think management is obligated to ensure that every security guard is armed nor are they in error if they don't send an armed guard to investigate every internal door alarm.

 

[MistyWaters]

Not sure if this has been posted as there are a lot of videos out there. But does this seem accurate...

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000005473328/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-12-bursts.html

It seems a fair attempt at reconstructing the timeline to me. It certainly demonstrates the absolute terror of that night.

 

[Cryptic]

Last time I checked, hotel security guards do not have X ray vision to see through those wooden or (more likely) metal doors. . So shooting blindly toward Paddock could have been an outrageously dumb move

I imagine this is why SWAT is called in and has specific protocols in how they approach these type of crises, in lieu of a wild wild west Rambo response that could worsen and complicate the already deadly situation.

Very well said.

Absent a crystal ball to determine what the shooter's actions were going to be, the hotel security followed established police protocol: There was no Rambo charge in case the shooter was drunk and holding his girl friend, wife or a uhmm... "professional girl" hostage (such action could risk the life of the hostage and people in adjoining rooms). Rather, they isolated the area as much as possible and called police.

 

[Elley Mae]

Investigators discovered at least 10 bags filled with weapons inside Paddock's room.

http://www.abc15.com/news/national/...on-shooter-stephen-paddock-chose-mandalay-bay

.....

Las Vegas shooter believed to have used hotel's freight elevator before attack

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephen-paddock-used-hotel-freight-elevator-before-attack-las-vegas/

.....

Has the bellman spoken publicy?

Not sure about that freight/ service elevator but ones i have seen and had access to you had a key to operate it.

 

[Manterro]

Last time I checked, hotel security guards do not have X ray vision to see through those wooden or (more likely) metal doors. . So shooting blindly toward Paddock could have been an outrageously dumb move as the return fire could have potentially detonated explosive materials or possible homemade bombs the shooter could have had in his room, killing / injuring many more innocent people inside the hotel.

I imagine this is why SWAT is called in and has specific protocols in how they approach these type of crises, in lieu of a wild wild west Rambo response that could worsen and complicate the already deadly situation.

[FONT=&amp]You were correct. I was wrong. My apologies.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]“Casinos call 911 like everyone else,” said C. David Shepherd, a former FBI special agent who spent seven years as executive director of security for the Venetian Resort Hotel and Casino. While the casinos have armed security, “they are not protected and trained to take on a barricaded suspect. It takes a special trained team of police officers.”[/FONT]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...2-story.html&usg=AOvVaw36rgJsAKPZFGMWHnYJu-92

[FONT=&amp]Most casino security guards used to carry guns. Nowadays, very few guards remain armed. Why is that?
[/FONT]

 

[Manterro]

Why don't casino security guards carry guns anymore?[FONT=&amp]guards used to carry guns. Nowadays, very few guards re[/FONT]

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/faq-general-armed-guards/

 

[Gooddeeds]

-why would the sheriff contradict JC again???
It appears he is boldly scripting the narrative for him as opposed to letting JC speak to the events for himself.

-First: it’s the switch from JC being shot ‘after’ to then ‘before’ SP shot out the window. This isn’t just a small oversight.

-Second: “JC was brave and ‘remained’ to assist us with the hotel guest, to then “JC didn’t assist with the hotel guest but he is still considered a Hero”. In my opinion that is an odd correction to casually slip in without the reason for the correction?? Is it because they don’t want to appear callous for having JC walk around with a bullet in his thigh? Might that be a ‘negligent’ LIABILITY for MGM and LE? Im inclined to think it would.

-there has been a lot of attention on JC in the thread but I believe most of it is not insinuating or assigning him any blame whatsoever. Personally speaking, most of my post on JC have been about him as a victim/key witness and trying to make sense of the conflicting responses from LE-FBI-MGM to valid questions regarding JC.

 

[Betty P]

Gets stranger and stranger.

-- I never knew FBI agents do housekeeping.

There is a bunch of em painting stuff over. They are wearing the FBI clothes with Booties on their shoes ?

A dude with an intense lens on it -- there is not a bullet hole anywhere??

By anywhere I mean anywhere - he goes super close on tons of stuff

A couple of unmarked black trucks

not one

trees power poles concession stands top of stage stage lights bleacher seats spotlights etc etc

strange

Is there a link for that? Haven't seen that in the news.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Still don't get why which type of elevator he took would possibly signal some sort of conspiracy, or even elevate the degree of suspicion to the level that I'm reading in this thread. I guess it's just because SP thus far is such an enigma, so there needs to be something to fill the void. But anyway, I shouldn't contribute to :deadhorse: either.

There's been a bizarre focus on "how he got all those guns upstairs without anyone noticing!" despite numerous explanations that:

1. The guns can be disassembled and easily fit in suitcases

2. No one knows if SP arrived and took 10 suitcases to his room all at once, or if he carried 1-2 suitcases in each time he left and came back to the hotel

The manager of some other place apparently mentioned guests using service elevators implying MB had done something weird by allowing guests to use a service elevator, which has sparked most of this conversation.

I think some people had an image of SP walking in with guns slung across him front and back, with hip holsters holding a few more and two in each hand lol...and couldn't figure out how security didn't notice!!

 

[Spice]

Gets stranger and stranger.

-- I never knew FBI agents do housekeeping.

There is a bunch of em painting stuff over. They are wearing the FBI clothes with Booties on their shoes ?

A dude with an intense lens on it -- there is not a bullet hole anywhere??

By anywhere I mean anywhere - he goes super close on tons of stuff

A couple of unmarked black trucks

not one

trees power poles concession stands top of stage stage lights bleacher seats spotlights etc etc

strange

an
Do you have an MSM link or links?

 

[MistyWaters]

-why would the sheriff contradict JC again???
It appears he is boldly scripting the narrative for him as opposed to letting JC speak to the events for himself.

-First: it’s the switch from JC being shot ‘after’ to then ‘before’ SP shot out the window. This isn’t just a small oversight.

-Second: “JC was brave and ‘remained’ to assist us with the hotel guest, to then “JC didn’t assist with the hotel guest but he is still considered a Hero”. In my opinion that is an odd correction to casually slip in without the reason for the correction?? Is it because they don’t want to appear callous for having JC walk around with a bullet in his thigh? Might that be a ‘negligent’ LIABILITY for MGM and LE? Im inclined to think it would.

-there has been a lot of attention on JC in the thread but I believe most of it is not insinuating or assigning him any blame whatsoever. Personally speaking, most of my post on JC have been about him as a victim/key witness and trying to make sense of the conflicting responses from LE-FBI-MGM to valid questions regarding JC.

There's is no doubt in my mind that throughout many hours following the massacre, every single resource available to LE was primarily involved in determining if SP was a lone shooter or if there were others involved. ESPECIALLY since twitter, Facebook were blogs were running rampant with rumours of a massive terrorism attack occurring.

While people sitting safely behind keyboards might get driven by the excitement of a disaster, imagine for a moment how horrific it would've been for those who were there, not knowing what was happening except for reading rumours on their cellphones?

Amidst the massive casualites and injuries, LE #1 focus was upon the safety of the citizens of LV. The sheriff had every reason to reassure them a lone shooter was involved as soon as it was determined as such. Whether a security guard was shot 6 minutes before, during or immediately after didn't change the panic and fear of the people of LV one iotta.

Over time it appears to me the significance of that first news release by the sheriff has become distorted. The primary focus has become JC's involvement. I think that's sad because it suggests only three weeks later the terror that SP so coldly and cowardly thrust upon LV during the Route 91 Festival has already been forgotten and in some cases, those who saved lives have become the target of blame.

JMO

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Actually, it depends on the resort and it depends on the preferred guest.

My friend saw numerous celebrities (preferred guests) in service elevators and employee corridors at the resort she worked at. Resort policy forbid employees from outwardly recognizing them or approaching them

Some celebrities value their privacy. Since they are wealthy, the resort accommodated them and let them use employee areas to avoid paparazzi, stares, and even well intentioned fans. Some such guests may never use employee areas, others probably used them routinely.

I"ll bet many resorts with celebrity guests allow them to use employee areas. Likewise, resorts may differ on who they define as a "celebrity". Some resorts may have an exacting definition, other resorts may have a broader definition to include: " relatively wealthy, high maintenance, self important people (comped whales)". SP would fit this definition.

I respectfully disagree

 

[Gooddeeds]

There's been a bizarre focus on "how he got all those guns upstairs without anyone noticing!" despite numerous explanations that:

1. The guns can be disassembled and easily fit in suitcases

2. No one knows if SP arrived and took 10 suitcases to his room all at once, or if he carried 1-2 suitcases in each time he left and came back to the hotel

The manager of some other place apparently mentioned guests using service elevators implying MB had done something weird by allowing guests to use a service elevator, which has sparked most of this conversation.

I think some people had an image of SP walking in with guns slung across him front and back, with hip holsters holding a few more and two in each hand lol...and couldn't figure out how security didn't notice!!

-Agree. These are my thoughts on maybe why the bizarre beat goes on with the elevator subject.

-After first hearing about the amount of weapons, magazines, tools etc that was found in SP room, it became a natural inquiry for how he was able to get that large of an amount up there without being noticed. That’s where the major focus on the ‘elevator-service-freight-Vip’ originated from.

- At that time there wasn’t anything mentioned yet about the actual ‘conventional’ luggage found in his room. ‘Golf bags’ and a few others were brought up as possibilities, as well as a few bags brought in over an extended period of time. From that, we wondered who might have noticed him bringing in his arsenal, whether it was via any of the different elevator types. And assuredly, by any of them there would be some surveillance to go off of...right...?

-The elevator topic though really sparked a blaze after the interview with Wynn and Chris Wallace. The videoed interview captures it well when CW attempted to have Wynn expound on his choice of the words ‘service elevators’.

-It remains a quandary because we have seen no footage...

 

[Gooddeeds]

Investigators discovered at least 10 bags filled with weapons inside Paddock's room.

http://www.abc15.com/news/national/...on-shooter-stephen-paddock-chose-mandalay-bay

.....

Las Vegas shooter believed to have used hotel's freight elevator before attack

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephen-paddock-used-hotel-freight-elevator-before-attack-las-vegas/

.....

Has the bellman spoken publicy?

Not sure about that freight/ service elevator but ones i have seen and had access to you had a key to operate it.

-I think the only 2 employees who have publicly spoken are JC and SS. The private Crisis P-R firm hired by MGM for damage control issued a seized silence for all employees of MB.

 

[bluesneakers]

-I think the only 2 employees who have publicly spoken are JC and SS. The private Crisis P-R firm hired by MGM for damage control issued a seized silence for all employees of MB.

How do you know this?

 

[Gooddeeds]

How do you know this?

-it was reported MSM, the details & info are on the thread somewhere. I inquired myself because I didn’t know how the firm could rightfully take that position. A poster informed that LV is a ‘right to work’ state. The report also stated that MB is paying the firm $1000 an hour. Its a high profile firm known for damage control.