NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #7

[jjenny]

Ten suitcases in two trips would not ring any alarm bells.

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Especially considering SP was a rich old dude that often played in casinos without any problems prior to this. He wouldn't have looked suspicious to any hotel staff. We still don't even have a motive, to this day, and I am guessing might never figure out what was his motive.

 

[WestieMom]

#1-Who said JC was checking the stairwell door?
#5-So the girl came out after the second round of shots, after SS took cover?

JC said he was checking the stairwell door - ELLEN interview. I don’t have link.


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[Deleted member 158085]

Especially considering SP was a rich old dude that often played in casinos without any problems prior to this. He wouldn't have looked suspicious to any hotel staff. We still don't even have a motive, to this day, and I am guessing might never figure out what was his motive.

And the fact that he practically lived in hotels. I think he said in that deposition that 75% of his time was spent traveling. It would be logical for someone who spends that much time away to have a lot of luggage because they may be hauling things with them while they travel that they have bought while out of town.

I went a little nuts buying bulky things during one trip and ended up shipping some of it home through the postal service, but I also bought some cheap luggage and hauled a bunch of it back with me, giving me double the luggage coming back compared to what I had when I left.

It also may have been assumed by staff or suggested by SP that MD would be joining him. If he was often with her it could be logical for him to bring some of her luggage with him ahead of time. For all the staff knew, he and MD may have been meeting for a trip out of town later. And as someone else pointed out earlier, there are all kinds of trade shows in Las Vegas, and people haul things in all the time for those.

There are so many reasons to have extra luggage that I don't see staff questioning it.

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[MistyWaters]

I notice advertisements for many shooting ranges around LV and no shortage of gun stores either. There are also gun trade shows hosted by various gun clubs several times a year. LE has also said SP's weapons were purchased legally.

I know nothing about Nevada gun laws or hotel gun policies but I'm curious so pardon my dumb questions.....are guns and ammunition illegal in LV hotel rooms? Or is there a limit of how many or what type? Are there specific storage requirements and transportation regulations? Up to the point in time that SP set the weaponry up with the intent to injure and kill, what laws did he contravene had anyone noticed the massive amount of artillery that he'd accumulated in his hotel suite?

 

[Cryptic]

Especially considering SP was a rich old dude that often played in casinos without any problems prior to this. He wouldn't have looked suspicious to any hotel staff.

Then factor in that SP was known to stay at casinos for weeks at a time and could also be accompanied by a girlfriend, thus the added possibility of having large amounts of luggage.

 

[Cryptic]

I know nothing about Nevada gun laws or hotel gun policies but I'm curious so pardon my dumb questions.....are guns and ammunition illegal in LV hotel rooms? Or is there a limit of how many or what type? Are there specific storage requirements and transportation regulations? Up to the point in time that SP set the weaponry up with the intent to injure and kill, what laws did he contravene had anyone noticed the massive amount of artillery that he'd accumulated in his hotel suite?

Hotels are private property so they can enact any policies regarding weapons that the management feels is appropriate.

My guess is that though the hotels may advertise "No questions asked- anything goes in Vegas", they don't add that they like to be aware of everything that goes on in their hotel. They may choose to tolerate a lot, but they want to know about it- and they hate bad publicity.

Nevada is a western state with permissive weapons laws, so guests with weapons in rooms are not alarming automatically. But SP had an awful lot of weapons. If SP's weapons had been noticed, my bet is that the casino' security would have done a discreet inquiry as to whether or not SP was a licensed dealer (FFL holder), was attending a gun show etc. and then asked him about the weapons.

Las Vegas casinos spend a lot of money on high quality security and hotel security includes former police with an eye for what is, or is not a good explanation. SP was not a dealer and probably could not give a good explanation for that number of weapons, he probably would have been discretely evicted.

Though SP may not have been banned out right (he had done nothing illegal, had not made threats, was not unstable etc,) he probably would have been identified as "somebody we just don't want here". His comps could be taken away, and SP could be told that reservations were always booked when he called etc.

 

[MistyWaters]

ETA: reply to Cryptic, post above

Thanks for your thoughts. In the crazy world of LV, it does make me wonder how common it is for absolutely harmless old guys to pack along their entire gun collection and if that would normally arouse suspicion.

Thinking about it, I can understand why SP completely fell off the radar. He was not new in town, had no prior criminal record, no indication of having caused any trouble that we know.....just a weird sloppyily dressed introvert who dropped a lot of cash into video poker machines for hours on end.

Pure speculation but after the firing began I'd assume that room registration records for suite 32135 if not the entire wing were immediately turned over to LE in an attempt to determine who was the threat and any known associations with terrorism. Suite 32135 revealed the names of SP and MD. Considering what we know now, just a 64 year old guy and 62 year old woman might normally be assumed to have been taken hostage or perhaps someone else had broke into their vacant room. SP seemingly left no clues whatsoever that it was only he who would be later discovered behind that bullet ridden door and was capable of such a violence and bloodshed.....

 

[KaaBoom]

What I can't understand is why the MGM lawyer would argue against a restraining order for MGM to preserve evidence.

I just don't understand why MGM wouldn't show their transparency by agreeing to this, at least in respect of the victims.

The Order was granted against the argument of the MGM lawyer.

It was a request for an Order to "preserve evidence" so I don't understand why the MGM lawyer would fight against it.

From article (below)

"The hotel, managed by MGM Resorts International, is required by the exhaustive order to preserve everything from the hotel's video surveillance to Paddock's gambling record to the broken glass in the hotel room, and any other evidence in connection to the shooting."

"According to CNN affiliate KLAS, MGM's lawyers argued the order would be unnecessary, because the evidence was already being preserved for investigators."

"What remains will be preserved, but it's frankly unsafe to keep (the hotel room) in its current condition," said Brad Brian, an attorney who argued on behalf of MGM Thursday."


http://www.krtv.com/story/36648257/mgm-ordered-to-preserve-evidence-connected-to-las-vegas-shooting

They want to get that suite back in a usable condition, so they can start making money from it again as soon as possible. They are losing thousands of dollars every day it is out of service. The only thing they care about is money.

They also want to get rid of evidence that might be used against them in the lawsuit.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I had a co worker who had previously worked at a resort in socal that had a certain amount of celebrity guests (at her resort, it was usually previous generation Hollywood or political, but also a few sports and business). That aside, celebrity guests were allowed to use freight elevators and employee corridors as a means to move about the resort more discretely.

Though SP was not a celebrity, he was a small "whale". As a certain number of "whales" are also celebrities, the casino might have just allowed all comped whales the ability to use the freight elevators if they want to. That way the employees don't need to try to figure out which whale was truly a celebrity and which one was not and risk offending one.

Not likely that small “whales” use the freight or service elevators. Nope.

 

[Betty P]

Yes, this is a sign we need to apply the brakes to the recent trend of allowing corporations have more power than government. When a corporation decides it's going to control a large criminal investigation we need to wake up and say "no". It's not only a bad idea, it's unconstitutional.

People forget that corporations have no greater rights than the average citizen. Can you imagine what would happen if an average, non-wealthy person tried to obstruct an investigation? It wouldn't end well.

 

[Betty P]

ETA: reply to Cryptic, post above

Thanks for your thoughts. In the crazy world of LV, it does make me wonder how common it is for absolutely harmless old guys to pack along their entire gun collection and if that would normally arouse suspicion.

Thinking about it, I can understand why SP completely fell off the radar. He was not new in town, had no prior criminal record, no indication of having caused any trouble that we know.....just a weird sloppyily dressed introvert who dropped a lot of cash into video poker machines for hours on end.

Pure speculation but after the firing began I'd assume that room registration records for suite 32135 if not the entire wing were immediately turned over to LE in an attempt to determine who was the threat and any known associations with terrorism. Suite 32135 revealed the names of SP and MD. Considering what we know now, just a 64 year old guy and 62 year old woman might normally be assumed to have been taken hostage or perhaps someone else had broke into their vacant room. SP seemingly left no clues whatsoever that it was only he who would be later discovered behind that bullet ridden door and was capable of such a violence and bloodshed.....

The revelation that it's so easy to bring multiple weapons into a Vegas hotel has made me decide to not return there. That MB may have been blase about possible gunfire in their hotel before Paddock began shooting into the concert crowd outside is also disturbing.

I'm also going to ask about gun and explosives policies before choosing a hotel on future trips. It seems crazy average Americans have to worry about this kind of thing. It's not too much to ask that people who need massive amounts of weapons put them in temporary storage somewhere.

 

[KaaBoom]

Yes, this is a sign we need to apply the brakes to the recent trend of allowing corporations have more power than government. When a corporation decides it's going to control a large criminal investigation we need to wake up and say "no". It's not only a bad idea, it's unconstitutional.

People forget that corporations have no greater rights than the average citizen. Can you imagine what would happen if an average, non-wealthy person tried to obstruct an investigation? It wouldn't end well.

Corporations have a lot more power than average citizens. They fund the campaigns, that get politicians elected.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, this is a sign we need to apply the brakes to the recent trend of allowing corporations have more power than government. When a corporation decides it's going to control a large criminal investigation we need to wake up and say "no". It's not only a bad idea, it's unconstitutional.

People forget that corporations have no greater rights than the average citizen. Can you imagine what would happen if an average, non-wealthy person tried to obstruct an investigation? It wouldn't end well.

Huh? Where is that coming from? I'm not reading anything like that into the temporary restraining order that was granted.

"District Judge Mark Denton approved the request and scheduled another hearing for Oct. 30.

Brad Brian, a Los Angeles attorney representing MGM, resisted a broad restraining order, and told the judge that FBI agents had taken over the gunman’s suite, collecting evidence including Paddock’s records with gaming companies.

“There’s been absolutely no showing that my clients are failing to comply with their obligation to preserve evidence,” he said. “But if they’re asking us, for example to preserve and not alter the rooms in which this crime was committed, that’s impossible. The FBI has already altered the rooms, as you would imagine.”

The casino company later released a statement through a public relations firm.
“This was a terrible tragedy perpetrated by an evil man,” the statement read. “We have no intention of renting that room. We’ve been cooperating with law enforcement from the moment this happened, which includes preserving evidence.”
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...er-to-protect-evidence-in-las-vegas-shooting/

 

[Deleted member 158085]

They want to get that suite back in a usable condition, so they can start making money from it again as soon as possible. They are losing thousands of dollars every day it is out of service. The only thing they care about is money.

They also want to get rid of evidence that might be used against them in the lawsuit.

No, they don't. They've already said that the suite will never be rented out again.

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[Deleted member 158085]

The revelation that it's so easy to bring multiple weapons into a Vegas hotel has made me decide to not return there. That MB may have been blase about possible gunfire in their hotel before Paddock began shooting into the concert crowd outside is also disturbing.

I'm also going to ask about gun and explosives policies before choosing a hotel on future trips. It seems crazy average Americans have to worry about this kind of thing. It's not too much to ask that people who need massive amounts of weapons put them in temporary storage somewhere.

They're policy won't matter much unless they are screening. I lived on a campus where guns weren't allowed by policy but a conceal carry guy had one on him in my dorm waiting room anyway because we obviously didn't have metal detectors and security to that degree.

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[Betty P]

Huh? Where is that coming from? I'm not reading anything like that into the temporary restraining order that was granted.

"District Judge Mark Denton approved the request and scheduled another hearing for Oct. 30.

Brad Brian, a Los Angeles attorney representing MGM, resisted a broad restraining order, and told the judge that FBI agents had taken over the gunman’s suite, collecting evidence including Paddock’s records with gaming companies.

“There’s been absolutely no showing that my clients are failing to comply with their obligation to preserve evidence,” he said. “But if they’re asking us, for example to preserve and not alter the rooms in which this crime was committed, that’s impossible. The FBI has already altered the rooms, as you would imagine.”

The casino company later released a statement through a public relations firm.
“This was a terrible tragedy perpetrated by an evil man,” the statement read. “We have no intention of renting that room. We’ve been cooperating with law enforcement from the moment this happened, which includes preserving evidence.”
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...er-to-protect-evidence-in-las-vegas-shooting/

Well, that's encouraging. Hope the courts continue to force MGM to keep the crime scene accessible as long as LE needs it.

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/l...uld-offer-rare-redress-for-victims/ar-AAtEKxb

[FONT=&quot]Any money Paddock gave away just before the shooting, like the $100,000 he is believed to have sent to his girlfriend Marilou Danley in the Philippines, might also be clawed back as a "fraudulent conveyance," said Elizabeth Carter, an estate law professor at Louisiana State University.[/FONT]

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Yes. I didn't find the full Ellen transcript, but I did find a link that summarizes JC's interview.

[FONT=&amp]"Jesus Campos told DeGeneres in a pre-recorded interview that he had been called to the 32nd floor of the hotel on the night of Oct. 1 to investigate an open door alarm. He said he tried to access the floor from a stairwell next to gunman Stephen Paddock's hotel room, but was blocked by a bolted emergency exit door."

<snip>

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Campos said he reached the floor through another stairwell and inspected the metal bracket from the other side. As he walked back into the hallway from a room that leads to the stairwell, the door made a loud noise as it closed behind him.
'"I believed that&#8217;s what caught the shooter&#8217;s attention,&#8221;' Campos said."[/FONT]

<snip>

"Mandalay Bay engineer Stephen Schuck, who went to the 32nd floor to look at the door Campos had called about, told DeGeneres that he initially thought he was hearing jackhammers when the gunfire began.

"As an engineer, I thought, 'we are not working up here late at night. We wouldn&#8217;t be doing that,'" said Schuck, who added that the wounded Campos yelled at him to take cover as bullets whizzed past his head.
"Within milliseconds, if he didn't say that, I would have got hit," the engineer said.

Campos added that a woman poked her head out of her room to see what was going on, but he told her to go back inside."

JC said he was checking the stairwell door - ELLEN interview. I don&#8217;t have link.


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#1-Who said JC was checking the stairwell door?
#5-So the girl came out after the second round of shots, after SS took cover?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Yes. I didn't find the full Ellen transcript, but I did find a link that summarizes JC's interview.

[FONT=&]"Jesus Campos told DeGeneres in a pre-recorded interview that he had been called to the 32nd floor of the hotel on the night of Oct. 1 to investigate an open door alarm. He said he tried to access the floor from a stairwell next to gunman Stephen Paddock's hotel room, but was blocked by a bolted emergency exit door."

<snip>

[/FONT][FONT=&]"Campos said he reached the floor through another stairwell and inspected the metal bracket from the other side. As he walked back into the hallway from a room that leads to the stairwell, the door made a loud noise as it closed behind him.
'"I believed that&#8217;s what caught the shooter&#8217;s attention,&#8221;' Campos said."[/FONT]

What I don&#8217;t understand is why wouldn&#8217;t he immediately call in on radio & stay put in the stairwell/door area since it appeared abnormal. Why leave that spot if it was an oddity until it was further investigated?
Why leave that spot & start walking down the hallway before anyone else arrived?

 

[MistyWaters]

Well, that's encouraging. Hope the courts continue to force MGM to keep the crime scene accessible as long as LE needs it.

I do as well. What's confusing is the filing on the various companies leads one to conclude LE isn't doing a proper investigation or that evidence isn't being turned over to the various agencies who are involved. For that matter, the statement by the attorney who filed doesn't acknowledge any investigation is taking place.


"There are so many victims that need answers,&#8221; said Brian Nettles, representing Rachel Sheppard, who was shot and critically wounded during the attack. &#8220;This community needs answers. This nation needs answers&#8230; This isn&#8217;t simply about compensation. This is about answers, it&#8217;s about changing the way that we do things in this country, and that these hotels in these events protect their guests.&#8221;
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...er-to-protect-evidence-in-las-vegas-shooting/