NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #13

[SuziQ]

Ita Ruby. It is all about painting the complete picture and we can't do that without all the complete info. Which is the most frustrating part of this case. Imo if someone known to the vic is responsible then their contact will look normal. Why not just release all the info?

 

[fasteddy4]

That's the worst website search ever. Even if you know their street address for a tower, if you try to search for it, it doesn't show results.

Actually, there are towers along Pecos, on atttowers.com. You're right that the search doesn't turn them up that way, but I mapped the entire length of Pecos Blvd and then found it on the total Vegas map on the site.

They're like billboards. Someone names them, and it sticks. We once had to find an electronic digital billboard named "Ice House" -- turns out it was in front of a Wal Mart (with the Ice House having been torn down three years before). (I know that's off-topic, but my husband's helper worked on cell towers, and said they were named the same way).

Notice the names of these, north to south along Pecos Blvd:

Name: "Las Vegas Blvd and Pecos"
http://www.atttowers.com/towers/siteInfo.do?siteID=50491&page=search
3031 NORTH PECOS ROAD (@ Las Vegas Blvd)


Name: "East Sahara"
http://www.atttowers.com/towers/siteInfo.do?siteID=10456&page=search
2143 PALM STREET (where Pecos turns into Palm for awhile)

Name: "Mcleod"
http://www.atttowers.com/towers/siteInfo.do?siteID=10493&page=search
3065 E DESERT INN RD (100 feet off Mcleod-Pecos Blvd)

Name: "Sams"
http://www.atttowers.com/towers/siteInfo.do?siteID=10510&page=search
3510 E TROPICANA (Tropicana @ Pecos)

Name: "Russell Road"
http://www.atttowers.com/towers/siteInfo.do?siteID=10460&page=search
3291 EAST PATRICK LANE (400 ft west of Pecos @ Patrick)



A coincidence because he stopped to buy gas at a different one, on Dec 10th? Maybe, maybe not.

The Pilot in Wendover is the ONLY place you can P and gas up in that town (I was just there, about 11 days ago. We did both.)

The Pilot in Las Vegas is at the first "real" Las Vegas exit.

I like the idea that he could have stopped there, but I think he'd also have stopped there if it had been a Flying J -- which is where he bought gas in Utah, on Dec 10th

The brand isn't doing it for me. It's just one of the two biggest truck stop brands we have in these parts (owned by the same company, too).

I can't imagine someone leaving their own bed to sleep in their car, 110 miles away, if their destination is that town - at noon the next day.

But here I am. Trying to make logic out of the illogical.

Sleeping in a car seems illogical to you and me. . .but. . .don't we have evidence and testimony that Steven was doing that? So, to him, it was just another night's sleep. . .

 

[rd_jfc]

If you find a website with tower site ID's, let me know. I haven't been able to find one, but I may be missing it somewhere.

jaxon, I briefly looked at a startup project concerning cell phone location, etc. a few years ago. There are still issues with real GPS as far as having to have direct line of site to satellite and getting a location read that this was going to circumvent by using cell phone towers.

From what I understood, cell phone tower id's were beng kept from public due to some kind of national security hysteria, and this was a project for public to enter in tower id's as shown with some phone software, probably with a Linux phone instead of standard commercial phones.

There was a need back then, and that was the reason. Doesn't look like it's changed if the data still not available.

rd

 

[laytonian]

Ita Ruby. It is all about painting the complete picture and we can't do that without all the complete info. Which is the most frustrating part of this case. Imo if someone known to the vic is responsible then their contact will look normal. Why not just release all the info?

I think we're lucky in this case, to have as much as we do. We've had receipts, contact reports, bank records, etc. We've been able to build a detailed timeline.

We actually have more to work with (and have had it, consistently) than the Susan Powell sleuthers have ever had.

That's why our thread is still strong.

 

[rd_jfc]

Have family member who works for a telecommunications company. I will see him in a couple of weeks, so was going to hold off to ask the questions in person....but I weakened and wrote a question this morning. There seem to be hundreds of answers to the same questions about cell phones and towers. Lots of geeks out there.

The following is his answer.

"Your phone has a unique number assigned to it (not the telephone number) and that number is used to identify the user and their whereabouts. The phone, when it is turned on, will transmit that number to the nearest receiving tower, which does not have to be the tower of your carrier. If the receiving tower’s operator is not your carrier and has a roaming agreement with your carrier (and most have reciprocal agreements) then the receiving tower’s operator will record where that phone is, in the event it receives a call to connect to that phone. When the phone is called, the phone’s carrier will search for the phone in it’s records, to see if it is in their service area. If it is not, it will hand off the call to the reciprocating carriers so they can attempt to find the phone. All this happens in a few seconds.

So the end result of this explanation is that some carrier knows where that phone is whenever it is turned on. You do not have to answer, initiate calls, call voicemail, etc for there to be a record of where that phone is. Whether this information is recorded, is another matter, because you can imagine the volume of information that would exist for ~100,000,000 phones. If his phone stopped transmitting it’s number, then it may have run down the battery or been intentionally turned off. You could also take the SIM card out of the phone (if so equipped) and insert it into another phone, thereby making the new phone look like the old phone. I don’t know why anybody would have done this, but it’s just a thought."

yes, that's an excellent explanation, Lato. That's the pinging that is constantly going on so phone company knows where to send call or hands off for roaming, etc.

But all we saw in this particular list was calls with carrier, nothing indicating roaming that was mentioned, and carrier towers that handled the calls stored with call records.

Good geek connection you have there.

rd

 

[fasteddy4]

Much thanks for that clarification, laytonian. I would like to know how anyone could think that wasn't SK checking his voice mail in Whitney Ranch area (north of where he parked his car) 4 1/2 hours after walking away from his car, coincidentally walking time there despite doubts someone would walk that far.

I learned a lot here from a great group of people but I woldn't have been concerned about SK had I known he was checking his voice mail multiple times after walking away from his car and avoiding calls from his landlord and boss, not to mention hanging up on his dad and refusing to use money put in his bank account by his family.

If there ever was a greater case for someone walking away from their life and hiding somewhere with whoever he secretly rendevouzed with in Henderson, I'd like to know what it is.

rd

The reason I have doubts about Steven walking from SCA is for a few reasons.

1. It seems pennywise dollar-foolish to me. He makes these plans to disappear: he plans to ditch his phone, his family, his friends, his credit cards, his car, etc. BUT he is going to walk down the busy streets of Henderson and put his face in front of 500 people in the process. Of all the choices of getting from SCA to Whitney Ranch, walking seems like the worse choice and the one with the most risk of getting noticed, especially since he had other choices on how to get there. . .a taxi or his accomplice picking him up, for example. Why would he make all these complex plans about disappearing and then undermine all of it by putting his face in front of 500 people that he could easily avoid by doing what everyone else in Vegas does. . .ride in a car? Remember: if he planned to disappear, he knew people would eventually start looking for him. He knew flyers would be passed out. People would go door to door. People would get on the Internet and wonder what happened. If he truly wanted to disappear he could not take the chance of standing at some crosswalk and some random driver see him and then, later the driver see Steven's face on a milk carton.

2. My second reason is a bit more anecdotal. . .nobody walks that far in Vegas. For him to make it in the time allotted he would have had to have walked down the 215 highway. He would have stuck out like a sore thumb. And in 12 years I have never seen someone walking that highway unless their car was broken down.

3. The other point is: why would he have to walk the entire way? If he was being "tricky", would not just being a "little" tricky be enough? Say. . .walk across the golf course and get picked up on the other side. Would that not be enough to throw people off? Why go through all the trouble of walking the entire way? Was his accomplice really that busy that day that he/she couldn't pick him up somewhere? In addition, why park so many miles away? Parking a mile away from Whitney Ranch would still be enough to leave everybody puzzled.

Walking the whole way there kind of reminds me of that Mars mission where they did everything right then some engineer undermined the whole thing by not converting from the Metric to the English system and the lander crashed. They did all the complex things right but couldn't get the simplest thing right.

I just have to believe that somebody picked him up in the Evening Lights area.

 

[rd_jfc]

And since we ALWAYS knew that voicemail was checked the next morning, what difference does it make that it was checked the day before?

5.5 months later ... here we are. Still. :banghead:

what difference does it make? please

We were talking about whether the murderer would check voice mail next morning or not and why. Never got into whether the murderer was posing as SK's personal secretary by checking for his voice mails.

That's the difference it makes.

rd

 

[Fairy1]

I think we're lucky in this case, to have as much as we do. We've had receipts, contact reports, bank records, etc. We've been able to build a detailed timeline.

We actually have more to work with (and have had it, consistently) than the Susan Powell sleuthers have ever had.

That's why our thread is still strong.

I agree. But I also believe that important details have purposely been withheld. I understand that, I really do. But Steven Koecher is still missing - for whatever reason.

 

[laytonian]

jaxon, I briefly looked at a startup project concerning cell phone location, etc. a few years ago. There are still issues with real GPS as far as having to have direct line of site to satellite and getting a location read that this was going to circumvent by using cell phone towers.

From what I understood, cell phone tower id's were beng kept from public due to some kind of national security hysteria, and this was a project for public to enter in tower id's as shown with some phone software, probably with a Linux phone instead of standard commercial phones.

There was a need back then, and that was the reason. Doesn't look like it's changed if the data still not available.

rd

It's available. Did you click on the URLs in that list of cell towers along Pecos Blvd? Each one of them lists the tower ID, Iif you go to "bulk search" and then "advanced search", you can enter the tower ID. That gives you all other info about the tower, including in some cases, a photo.

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

Ita Ruby. It is all about painting the complete picture and we can't do that without all the complete info. Which is the most frustrating part of this case. Imo if someone known to the vic is responsible then their contact will look normal. Why not just release all the info?

I agree. I've always felt that Steven was the victim of foul play, and whether he wanted to run away, take a lover, deliver drugs, or just wash someone's windows, I think he meant to come back to his car at some point. I could very well be wrong.

But lately I've been wondering what his family thinks happened to him. They're remained relatively quiet through this all. I wonder if they think he was somehow at fault in his disappearance (getting involved in something shady). I mean no disrespect to the family, but I know many of you have wondered why in the heck these Mormons aren't getting their crap together and conducting search parties and papering the town. I know that when Elizabeth Smart was missing, her picture was on the bulletin board in our church building. Same with Brooke Wilberger, the BYU student who went missing in Oregon. But I believe that was a result of families and friends who were working overtime to get the word out. My opinion is that the church will take its cue from the family and it won't typically do something like circulate posters or organize search parties without the consent of the family. The next entity that might do something is an individual ward, BUT since he wasn't really close to the people in his ward, and it's not in Las Vegas, I can see that they also would take their cue from the family. And since the family hasn't done that, to my knowledge, I'm curious as to why.

 

[rd_jfc]

The reason I have doubts about Steven walking from SCA is for a few reasons.

1. It seems pennywise dollar-foolish to me. He makes these plans to disappear: he plans to ditch his phone, his family, his friends, his credit cards, his car, etc. BUT he is going to walk down the busy streets of Henderson and put his face in front of 500 people in the process. Of all the choices of getting from SCA to Whitney Ranch, walking seems like the worse choice and the one with the most risk of getting noticed, especially since he had other choices on how to get there. . .a taxi or his accomplice picking him up, for example. Why would he make all these complex plans about disappearing and then undermine all of it by putting his face in front of 500 people that he could easily avoid by doing what everyone else in Vegas does. . .ride in a car? Remember: if he planned to disappear, he knew people would eventually start looking for him. He knew flyers would be passed out. People would go door to door. People would get on the Internet and wonder what happened. If he truly wanted to disappear he could not take the chance of standing at some crosswalk and some random driver see him and then, later the driver see Steven's face on a milk carton.

2. My second reason is a bit more anecdotal. . .nobody walks that far in Vegas. For him to make it in the time allotted he would have had to have walked down the 215 highway. He would have stuck out like a sore thumb. And in 12 years I have never seen someone walking that highway unless their car was broken down.

3. The other point is: why would he have to walk the entire way? If he was being "tricky", would not just being a "little" tricky be enough? Say. . .walk across the golf course and get picked up on the other side. Would that not be enough to throw people off? Why go through all the trouble of walking the entire way? Was his accomplice really that busy that day that he/she couldn't pick him up somewhere? In addition, why park so many miles away? Parking a mile away from Whitney Ranch would still be enough to leave everybody puzzled.

Walking the whole way there kind of reminds me of that Mars mission where they did everything right then some engineer undermined the whole thing by not converting from the Metric to the English system and the lander crashed. They did all the complex things right but couldn't get the simplest thing right.

I just have to believe that somebody picked him up in the Evening Lights area.

I'm just saying coincidentally he checks for his voice mail 4 1/2 hours away walking distance. He was in that south Henderson area all morning since at least 8am and would be quite coincidental if he had just pulled up there when he got that call, so he is in that area early morning and as far as I'm concerned Saturday night after leaving his apartment at 9:28.

(Did that before and after phone calls of entering and leaving his apartment night before get identified? Would seem fairly pertinent as last tome he was seen and no one ever answers that.)

So no, I agree eddy, he didn't hang around there for hours waiting to park his car and start walking to Whitney Ranch. He's down there with someone, whoever he came to Henderson to see, imo. I definitely would not consider that Whitney Ranch was a destination for him at that time. I'm just saying it's a pretty interesting coincidence that he turns his phone on and checks his voice mail 4 1/2 hours later at a spot that takes that long to walk to.

Driven there and did something else during that time, I don't know. There's nothing that indicates he didn't walk away though. Maybe he was looking for something.

rd

 

[Fairy1]

I agree. I've always felt that Steven was the victim of foul play, and whether he wanted to run away, take a lover, deliver drugs, or just wash someone's windows, I think he meant to come back to his car at some point. I could very well be wrong.

But lately I've been wondering what his family thinks happened to him. They're remained relatively quiet through this all. I wonder if they think he was somehow at fault in his disappearance (getting involved in something shady). I mean no disrespect to the family, but I know many of you have wondered why in the heck these Mormons aren't getting their crap together and conducting search parties and papering the town. I know that when Elizabeth Smart was missing, her picture was on the bulletin board in our church building. Same with Brooke Wilberger, the BYU student who went missing in Oregon. But I believe that was a result of families and friends who were working overtime to get the word out. My opinion is that the church will take its cue from the family and it won't typically do something like circulate posters or organize search parties without the consent of the family. The next entity that might do something is an individual ward, BUT since he wasn't really close to the people in his ward, and it's not in Las Vegas, I can see that they also would take their cue from the family. And since the family hasn't done that, to my knowledge, I'm curious as to why.

Actually, the family hasn't been quiet until recently. We've been very fortunate to have their input here.

But I do wonder about the lack of assistance from the church - generally speaking. One of their sons is missing - WHY would they not step up and do everything in their power to help find him? Is it an LDS thing? It doesn't strike me as particularly Christian, to be honest.

What is the LDS position on suicide?

 

[rd_jfc]

It's available. Did you click on the URLs in that list of cell towers along Pecos Blvd? Each one of them lists the tower ID, Iif you go to "bulk search" and then "advanced search", you can enter the tower ID. That gives you all other info about the tower, including in some cases, a photo.

No, saw your post after I posted, laytonian. Glad we're past that public non-disclusure for security reasons stuff now and data is available.

thanks!
rd

 

[laytonian]

I agree. I've always felt that Steven was the victim of foul play, and whether he wanted to run away, take a lover, deliver drugs, or just wash someone's windows, I think he meant to come back to his car at some point. I could very well be wrong.

But lately I've been wondering what his family thinks happened to him. They're remained relatively quiet through this all. I wonder if they think he was somehow at fault in his disappearance (getting involved in something shady). I mean no disrespect to the family, but I know many of you have wondered why in the heck these Mormons aren't getting their crap together and conducting search parties and papering the town. I know that when Elizabeth Smart was missing, her picture was on the bulletin board in our church building. Same with Brooke Wilberger, the BYU student who went missing in Oregon. But I believe that was a result of families and friends who were working overtime to get the word out. My opinion is that the church will take its cue from the family and it won't typically do something like circulate posters or organize search parties without the consent of the family. The next entity that might do something is an individual ward, BUT since he wasn't really close to the people in his ward, and it's not in Las Vegas, I can see that they also would take their cue from the family. And since the family hasn't done that, to my knowledge, I'm curious as to why.

Don't forget the media frenzy that had been going on, related to the Susan Powell disappearance.

By the time Steven was known to be missing, the Powell case had been in the news for a week and a half. Every time one of her friends passed gas, it was in the news.

It wasn't until right after Christmas that Steven's case hit the news. The holidays, the other case, trying to keep the family together while searching, "it's a guy not a woman".

Then there's the issue of him disappearing in one town, living in another, with his family's home far away. Belonging to a singles ward, where there's no Relief Society to organize such projects. I know the RS women worked really hard during the Elizabeth Smart case.

There's a lot of reasons....and that da**ed security video that shows "him" walking down the street, pretty much sealed it as a walkaway in the minds of many.

 

[laytonian]

No, saw your post after I posted, laytonian. Glad we're past that public non-disclusure for security reasons stuff now and data is available.

thanks!
rd

Google's done a lot of stuff, but I'm not technically-interested in figuring it out. Maybe you're just the person?

I was just reading about cell phone triangulation. I don't think we'd have enough info, even with the tower IDs. We'd need to know all the other towers that hit his phone at the same time, to draw the circles.

 

[fasteddy4]

I'm just saying coincidentally he checks for his voice mail 4 1/2 hours away walking distance. He was in that south Henderson area all morning since at least 8am and would be quite coincidental if he had just pulled up there when he got that call, so he is in that area early morning and as far as I'm concerned Saturday night after leaving his apartment at 9:28.

(Did that before and after phone calls of entering and leaving his apartment night before get identified? Would seem fairly pertinent as last tome he was seen and no one ever answers that.)

So no, I agree eddy, he didn't hang around there for hours waiting to park his car and start walking to Whitney Ranch. He's down there with someone, whoever he came to Henderson to see, imo. I definitely would not consider that Whitney Ranch was a destination for him at that time. I'm just saying it's a pretty interesting coincidence that he turns his phone on and checks his voice mail 4 1/2 hours later at a spot that takes that long to walk to.

Driven there and did something else during that time, I don't know. There's nothing that indicates he didn't walk away though. Maybe he was looking for something.

rd

As I said in a previous post, I don't think he was in Whitney Ranch all morning. Or even the preceding night. Just because that one cellphone pinged "Pecos" does not mean he was in East Vegas near Whitney Ranch. He could have been way up at Craig and the I-15 in North Las Vegas. Pecos comes very close to the I-15 there and that is WAY FAR away from Whitney Ranch. Pecos is a long long street. I think when Jaxon wrote that the phone pinged "Pecos" he was taking for granted that it was E. Vegas because most of Pecos is in the East. But not all of it is. And really, we don't know where that ping happened, all we know is that it pinged off a tower titled "Pecos". Well, Pecos is like ten miles long and there are several towers near it.

And as I stated before, logistically, him going or being in Henderson early on Dec. 13 and then his phone pinging off a tower at Bermuda/Cactus two hours later makes no sense at all. I think the scenario I explained in my previous long post makes a lot more sense than him being way over in the East. Then he's near the Strip. Then he is way in the South. Remember: if he is planning to disappear, he would keep things simple. Not alot of driving. Little interaction with other people.

I realize there is something within all of us that wants Steven to be alive and to believe he left on his accord. But when a car is abandoned, the cell phone has vanished, the credit cards aren't being used, and the person has disappeared. . .the percentages have to be in the 99 percent range that the person is no longer alive. Especially after five months of people searching. That's just a fact. My goal is to find out why he is gone and who did it.

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

Actually, the family hasn't been quiet until recently. We've been very fortunate to have their input here.

But I do wonder about the lack of assistance from the church - generally speaking. One of their sons is missing - WHY would they not step up and do everything in their power to help find him? Is it an LDS thing? It doesn't strike me as particularly Christian, to be honest.

What is the LDS position on suicide?

Well, I guess I can't speak for what's been said/done with regard to his ward in St. George, but I can say that here in Vegas, unless you follow crime stories, very few people, LDS or not, have even heard of Steven Koecher. That's why I say I don't know what the family has done to get the word out. The individual congregations aren't going to know what to do unless they are given information. We recently had a young teenager that went missing. We didn't know him; he was in a neighboring ward, but word went out and dozens of people hit the street to search for him over several miles. LDS people try to be good Christians and want to do what's right, but they need information and direction.

With regard to suicide, you can read here.

From the article:

The late Elder Bruce R. McConkie, formerly of the Quorum of the Twelve, expressed what many Church leaders have taught: “Suicide consists in the voluntary and intentional taking of one’s own life, particularly where the person involved is accountable and has a sound mind. … Persons subject to great stresses may lose control of themselves and become mentally clouded to the point that they are no longer accountable for their acts. Such are not to be condemned for taking their own lives. It should also be remembered that judgment is the Lord’s; he knows the thoughts, intents, and abilities of men; and he in his infinite wisdom will make all things right in due course.” (Mormon Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 771; some italics added.)

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

Don't forget the media frenzy that had been going on, related to the Susan Powell disappearance.

By the time Steven was known to be missing, the Powell case had been in the news for a week and a half. Every time one of her friends passed gas, it was in the news.

It wasn't until right after Christmas that Steven's case hit the news. The holidays, the other case, trying to keep the family together while searching, "it's a guy not a woman".

Then there's the issue of him disappearing in one town, living in another, with his family's home far away. Belonging to a singles ward, where there's no Relief Society to organize such projects. I know the RS women worked really hard during the Elizabeth Smart case.

There's a lot of reasons....and that da**ed security video that shows "him" walking down the street, pretty much sealed it as a walkaway in the minds of many.

You are very right. These are all very significant reasons why his case is not known.

 

[Fairy1]

Well, I guess I can't speak for what's been said/done with regard to his ward in St. George, but I can say that here in Vegas, unless you follow crime stories, very few people, LDS or not, have even heard of Steven Koecher. That's why I say I don't know what the family has done to get the word out. The individual congregations aren't going to know what to do unless they are given information. We recently had a young teenager that went missing. We didn't know him; he was in a neighboring ward, but word went out and dozens of people hit the street to search for him over several miles. LDS people try to be good Christians and want to do what's right, but they need information and direction.

With regard to suicide, you can read here.

From the article:

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

 

[Fairy1]

You are very right. These are all very significant reasons why his case is not known.

In terms of media - yes. In terms of church involvement - NO.

And not for nothing, but I think Steven's case has had much more media coverage than the average Joe. It's just not as sensational as Susan's case. We KNOW what happened to Susan, we do NOT know what happened to Steven.

JMO.