NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #14

[laytonian]

I am not in LE but I think it is safe to conclude that the types of evidence of foul play they look for include weapons, drugs, known threats to the missing person, signs of a struggle, blood stains, and in the case of cars, things like broken glass, an accident, unusual stains, car being found off the road, etc.

None of these things happened here. The guy literally walked away from his known life. Not a crime in any jurisdiction so no justification for LE to expend limited public resources on an adult runaway.

It's obvious the car was not a crime scene; the idea, in this case, would be that **the crime took place elsewhere** (and likely far from SCA, with the car merely being "dropped" there).

A runaway could DRIVE away, not park.
A runaway wouldn't continue to use his cellphone, AFTER parking in a secret place to avoid detection.
A runaway would at least take their computer with them, to communicate.
A runaway would need clothes, and at least a small travel bag.

And most of all, a purposeful runaway would need to have created an entire new identity and financials, to carry it off.

Classifying this case as "a walkaway" makes it easier for the police.

I HOPE it's a walkaway, but it's been too long -- and I really don't see Steven as someone who could abandon his friends and family for this long.

 

[carbuff]

It's obvious the car was not a crime scene; the idea, in this case, would be that **the crime took place elsewhere** (and likely far from SCA, with the car merely being "dropped" there).

A runaway could DRIVE away, not park.
A runaway wouldn't continue to use his cellphone, AFTER parking in a secret place to avoid detection.
A runaway would at least take their computer with them, to communicate.
A runaway would need clothes, and at least a small travel bag.

And most of all, a purposeful runaway would need to have created an entire new identity and financials, to carry it off.

Classifying this case as "a walkaway" makes it easier for the police.

I HOPE it's a walkaway, but it's been too long -- and I really don't see Steven as someone who could abandon his friends and family for this long.

Kind of being devil's advocate here, because I don't disagree with you:

A walkaway might have other transportation. Or might not want to take a car he still owed money on. (Taking a car you owe money on is theft. Leaving a car you owe money on so it can be repossessed, or other people can pay it off, is merely rude.)

A walkaway might not have been hiding the car there -- it might have been just a convenient place to park. And for all we know, he tossed the phone in a passing truck, where it drove around LV receiving messages until the driver noticed it, checked to see if the phone's owner was looking for it, and threw it away because it was dead.

A walkaway might have been going someplace where he didn't need a computer, or travelling in a way that made a computer a nuisance to carry. Hitching, for instance.

A walkaway might have had a toothbrush and stuff in whatever it is he's carrying under his arm, or might have planned to buy new clothing etc. when he reached his destination, if he had one.

A walkaway wouldn't have to have more than a driver's license and some saved-up cash if all he did was hit the road, drifting from place to place and job to job. Even if he had a specific destination, he could live a "drop out" lifestyle without much planning and without leaving much trace.

 

[laytonian]

Kind of being devil's advocate here, because I don't disagree with you:

A walkaway might have other transportation. Or might not want to take a car he still owed money on. (Taking a car you owe money on is theft. Leaving a car you owe money on so it can be repossessed, or other people can pay it off, is merely rude.)

A walkaway might not have been hiding the car there -- it might have been just a convenient place to park. And for all we know, he tossed the phone in a passing truck, where it drove around LV receiving messages until the driver noticed it, checked to see if the phone's owner was looking for it, and threw it away because it was dead.

A walkaway might have been going someplace where he didn't need a computer, or travelling in a way that made a computer a nuisance to carry. Hitching, for instance.

A walkaway might have had a toothbrush and stuff in whatever it is he's carrying under his arm, or might have planned to buy new clothing etc. when he reached his destination, if he had one.

A walkaway wouldn't have to have more than a driver's license and some saved-up cash if all he did was hit the road, drifting from place to place and job to job. Even if he had a specific destination, he could live a "drop out" lifestyle without much planning and without leaving much trace.

Ya know, I agree with your logic except for the very last paragraph

If he's a walkaway, it's because he failed at finding a job (and a woman). But now that he's a walkaway, he can find jobs to support himself?

I think he'd have had to have a pretty nice stash of money to set it all up ... and I don't think passing out flyers "to HELP with the rent" would do that.

If he's a walkaway, there had to have been another job. And a secret savings account. And a secret phone. And secret other stuff.

Of course, when you're 300 miles away from family and friends, it'd be easier.

I hope it's true; I just don't think it is.

 

[carbuff]

Ya know, I agree with your logic except for the very last paragraph

If he's a walkaway, it's because he failed at finding a job (and a woman). But now that he's a walkaway, he can find jobs to support himself?

I think he'd have had to have a pretty nice stash of money to set it all up ... and I don't think passing out flyers "to HELP with the rent" would do that.

If he's a walkaway, there had to have been another job. And a secret savings account. And a secret phone. And secret other stuff.

Of course, when you're 300 miles away from family and friends, it'd be easier.

I hope it's true; I just don't think it is.

I don't think it is either, but there's no more evidence against it than against any of the other options.

I'm not thinking of "job" with weekly paycheck and federal tax reporting. I'm thinking "day job" and "under the table" -- and I think he may have been working that kind of job for some time.

 

[laytonian]

I don't think it is either, but there's no more evidence against it than against any of the other options.

I'm not thinking of "job" with weekly paycheck and federal tax reporting. I'm thinking "day job" and "under the table" -- and I think he may have been working that kind of job for some time.

But by leaving St George, he'd have given up any job like that- and had to have started over. Without anything. No transportation. No communication.

If he saved up a substantial sum, why use it to be downwardly mobile?
Day labor, you get in line with the illegals at Home Depot. I can't see him hopping onto a truck and going out to dig ditches in Vegas.

He doesn't seem to be a "labor" kind of guy, does he? He worked construction one summer, and later at FedEx. He was passing out flyers, per what rd found out from TH, not actually washing the windows. MatchBin was some sort of convassing, also.

That's another reason why parking the car there, makes no sense for a walkaway. How do you pick up jobs, without transportation? Stand on a street corner and beg?

I dunno. I still think whatever happened, is tied to someone he knew -- not a new job.

 

[carbuff]

There's a lot of pickup and temp work around here -- everything from yard maintenance to telephone work to temporary kitchen help. Mostly immigrants -- when a decent looking white guy with good language skills shows up, he moves to the head of the queue.

 

[webrocket]

What is needed for an adult to walk away is not nearly as complicated as some make it out to be.

Anyone can promise anyone anything on the internet these days. My hunch is that Steven gave this other person some time in which to demonstrate whatever it was that he or she was promising by moving to St. George away from his last full time job and family. In my book there is an inverse relationship between having alot to lose and the odds of someone walking away from it.

Here Steven had next to nothing - no wife, children, steady girlfriend, steady job or assets. When you start with practically nothing, then this something that someone is offering or promising becomes very attractive and you lose nothing by giving it a shot.

That is not to say that family ties are nothing. However, he already took the preliminary steps to distance himself from the family, so in my book that was a trial run for his walking away from his so-called life.

 

[laytonian]

There's a lot of pickup and temp work around here -- everything from yard maintenance to telephone work to temporary kitchen help. Mostly immigrants -- when a decent looking white guy with good language skills shows up, he moves to the head of the queue.

...and there'd have been exactly that in St George, too. Plus the openings that existed in the company my husband works for (which would have involved some physical labor but also a great learning opportunity).

They also have a sales opening right now in another city. Based on what we know about him, he'd have been as qualified as anyone else if he was willng to travel 20-30% of the time. Sounds right up his alley

 

[sbakker]

Unless there was something wrong with steven, i do not believe he walked away willingly. He seemed to have been a family guy. He talked to his siblings and other relatives more than some talk to theirs in a year. He was not distraught, showed up for church activities. i brlieve he wanted what most others had: a wife, a job, and a family. But in the single wards, its not uncommon to be single at his age. I mean, what most people his age want, is what he wanted.

My feeling, someone he knew, and knew his personality, knew they could USE him-manipulate him, knew he needed work, preyed on him for their own good.

 

[webrocket]

i brlieve he wanted what most others had: a wife, a job, and a family. But in the single wards, its not uncommon to be single at his age. I mean, what most people his age want, is what he wanted.

I don't disagree. He probably sincerely wanted those things but if you take a step back, and look at his situation objectively, he was not capable of obtaining those things.

Without a job, it is very difficult to find a wife and he voluntarily walked away from his last full time job.

From descriptions of past dating, they never worked out either. I think someone said he always found fault in the girl. hmmm

so maybe he finally looked in the mirror and said 'maybe it's me'? I don't know. he was the only common denominator in all his past relationships that never worked out.

 

[sbakker]

I don't disagree. He probably sincerely wanted those things but if you take a step back, and look at his situation objectively, he was not capable of obtaining those things.

Without a job, it is very difficult to find a wife and he voluntarily walked away from his last full time job.

From descriptions of past dating, they never worked out either. I think someone said he always found fault in the girl. hmmm

so maybe he finally looked in the mirror and said 'maybe it's me'? I don't know. he was the only common denominator in all his past relationships that never worked out.

I kind of feel he didn't want the relationships to work out. I do not think he felt confident in being a husband or a provider. or should I say, I do not think he could do it. He was lacking in some areas and he knew it. We have talked before about health issuses. If he had aspherger's,ADD,bi-polar, he knew he could not handle these situations. my sister, who is bi-polar, talks a talk. of what she is going to do, goes in circles, (like his driving around)smokes alot, sleeps, etc. to cope. Goes from one job to another.. sad because she is very smart. In her younger years,she was so efficient. But she is ill.

She has been taken advantage of too. Talked out of money, paid for a vehicle,(cheap, but never got it)etc.

 

[laytonian]

I kind of feel he didn't want the relationships to work out. I do not think he felt confident in being a husband or a provider. or should I say, I do not think he could do it. He was lacking in some areas and he knew it. We have talked before about health issuses. If he had aspherger's,ADD,bi-polar, he knew he could not handle these situations.

I think that's a wise analysis, S. I sense external pressures (family, church, seeing his friends marry and have children) and the need to "measure up".

Webrocket's insights about leaving, could fit into that. It's not what I think happened, but it's a hopeful thought.

Unfortunately, I could see that analysis leading to self-destruction, too. But like Fairy1 said: if he did that, where's the body?

No. I think crime makes more sense. There were predators in his life, I believe.

my sister, who is bi-polar, talks a talk. of what she is going to do, goes in circles, (like his driving around)smokes alot, sleeps, etc. to cope. Goes from one job to another.. sad because she is very smart. In her younger years,she was so efficient. But she is ill.

She has been taken advantage of too. Talked out of money, paid for a vehicle,(cheap, but never got it)etc.

There's always a predator, isn't there?

 

[Fairy1]

But by leaving St George, he'd have given up any job like that- and had to have started over. Without anything. No transportation. No communication.

If he saved up a substantial sum, why use it to be downwardly mobile?
Day labor, you get in line with the illegals at Home Depot. I can't see him hopping onto a truck and going out to dig ditches in Vegas.

He doesn't seem to be a "labor" kind of guy, does he? He worked construction one summer, and later at FedEx. He was passing out flyers, per what rd found out from TH, not actually washing the windows. MatchBin was some sort of convassing, also.

That's another reason why parking the car there, makes no sense for a walkaway. How do you pick up jobs, without transportation? Stand on a street corner and beg?

I dunno. I still think whatever happened, is tied to someone he knew -- not a new job.

It didn't necessarily have to be a continuation of whatever he had been doing - or a step down. Perhaps whatever it was was simply a means to an end. Something necessary to move on to the next step.

 

[Fairy1]

I kind of feel he didn't want the relationships to work out. I do not think he felt confident in being a husband or a provider. or should I say, I do not think he could do it. He was lacking in some areas and he knew it. We have talked before about health issuses. If he had aspherger's,ADD,bi-polar, he knew he could not handle these situations. my sister, who is bi-polar, talks a talk. of what she is going to do, goes in circles, (like his driving around)smokes alot, sleeps, etc. to cope. Goes from one job to another.. sad because she is very smart. In her younger years,she was so efficient. But she is ill.

She has been taken advantage of too. Talked out of money, paid for a vehicle,(cheap, but never got it)etc.

It does kind of seem that he sought excuses to get out of relationships, doesn't it?

This has me thinking about a girlfriend I have. She's intelligent, attractive and successful professionally but has ALWAYS gone after guys she KNEW she couldn't have - for whatever reason. I've known her since she was just out of college and it's always been the same. She's now 35 and still not in a relationship - let alone married....with children, as she desires. She told me recently that the death of a VERY elderly grandparent last year sent her into a deep depression and she is now on antidepressants. It couldn't have been too much of a shock to lose this grandparent, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I wonder if there was such a straw for Steven.

 

[laytonian]

It didn't necessarily have to be a continuation of whatever he had been doing - or a step down. Perhaps whatever it was was simply a means to an end. Something necessary to move on to the next step.

Well....if it were a step up, you'd think he'd need a car to get to that job, a cellphone and charger, some clothes, his computer.........

I don't think he was leaving for a job; I believe, IF this is a crime, he was in the midst of doing job(s) for someone.

 

[laytonian]

It does kind of seem that he sought excuses to get out of relationships, doesn't it?

This has me thinking about a girlfriend I have. She's intelligent, attractive and successful professionally but has ALWAYS gone after guys she KNEW she couldn't have - for whatever reason. I've known her since she was just out of college and it's always been the same. She's now 35 and still not in a relationship - let alone married....with children, as she desires. She told me recently that the death of a VERY elderly grandparent last year sent her into a deep depression and she is now on antidepressants. It couldn't have been too much of a shock to lose this grandparent, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I wonder if there was such a straw for Steven.

The straw, with Steven or your friend, was themselves. All the excuses were based on someone else's fault, rather than their own. Your friend *thinks* she wants to get married and have children, because that's expected. Steven wanted to find a life companion and a great job, because that's expected.

But I don't think either of them have been brave enough to be themselves.

It's the old saying: "If you don't take it with you, you won't have it when you get there."

Quitting the Trib - two, or three excuses?
Moving to St George - two reasons, at least.
Girlfriend #1 - not pretty enough
Girlfriend #2 - God told him she wasn't the right one.

If you're not happy in one place, moving isn't going to make it better.

 

[Fairy1]

The straw, with Steven or your friend, was themselves. All the excuses were based on someone else's fault, rather than their own. Your friend *thinks* she wants to get married and have children, because that's expected. Steven wanted to find a life companion and a great job, because that's expected.

But I don't think either of them have been brave enough to be themselves.

Well, I know that and YOU know that, but I think when people are in the middle of it, they can't see the obvious. And it's easier to blame others.

It's the old saying: "If you don't take it with you, you won't have it when you get there."

Quitting the Trib - two, or three excuses?
Moving to St George - two reasons, at least.
Girlfriend #1 - not pretty enough
Girlfriend #2 - God told him she wasn't the right one.

If you're not happy in one place, moving isn't going to make it better.

Some people spend their whole lives moving around - thinking they will find what they're looking for someplace else.

 

[Fairy1]

Well....if it were a step up, you'd think he'd need a car to get to that job, a cellphone and charger, some clothes, his computer.........

I don't think he was leaving for a job; I believe, IF this is a crime, he was in the midst of doing job(s) for someone.

IF it was a crime, I agree with you. If not, I think he just walked away.

 

[Fairy1]

I think that's a wise analysis, S. I sense external pressures (family, church, seeing his friends marry and have children) and the need to "measure up".

You bring up a good point here, laytonian. If Steven DID just walk away, it may simply be because he decided he didn't want what everyone else wanted him to have. It didn't have to be anything sinister or "dark" - by most people's standards. It could just be that he felt he would not be accepted by those in his life. Or he didn't want to hurt them. Which, if that was his plan, he's done anyway.

As a mother, I would much rather have my children destroy my expectations of them than to have them leave my life forever.

Webrocket's insights about leaving, could fit into that. It's not what I think happened, but it's a hopeful thought.

Unfortunately, I could see that analysis leading to self-destruction, too. But like Fairy1 said: if he did that, where's the body?

No. I think crime makes more sense. There were predators in his life, I believe.

There's always a predator, isn't there?

I see truly valid points in every argument for every theory. But it's funny, most of us still feel the same way we did from the very beginning.

 

[laytonian]

Well, I know that and YOU know that, but I think when people are in the middle of it, they can't see the obvious. And it's easier to blame others.

Like the "wrong man" (perhaps married - meaning that it reinforces your friend's good taste, to know that someone else pre-approved him???)

Or Steven's "God says she was wrong" ... but God evidently never pointed him at the right one.

Some people spend their whole lives moving around - thinking they will find what they're looking for someplace else.

My parents, for an example. They're 90, and to misquote U2, "They Still Haven't Found What They're Looking For".