NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 5

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webrocket said:
I had no idea the 'straightedge' referred to a gang.
<snip>
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It doesn't, necessarily. Loosely speaking, straightedge is the term used for members of the goth/punk subculture who adhere to a lifestyle that avoids the more dangerously unhealthy aspects of the subculture -- no drugs, always practice safe sex, etc. But they have a wide variety of politics, agendas, and personal proclivities.

I would think that a respect for health would include an avoidance of lead, but that's just me :p
 
hollyblue said:
I have a question:

Can a laptop be used to trace someone? Like a cell phone in a sense. The IP address? It would only be tied to the owner/user? Maybe the reason for him not taking it??
Just a thought...
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Only if you have your own internet connection (ie, myfi card or a usb-plug in device that transmits using cell towers) and others know about it.

Otherwise, the only someone could be traced is if they used the laptop to communicate with someone they knew, or used an account that was being monitored.....and that could be done from any computer.
 
carbuff said:
It doesn't, necessarily. Loosely speaking, straightedge is the term used for members of the goth/punk subculture who adhere to a lifestyle that avoids the more dangerously unhealthy aspects of the subculture -- no drugs, always practice safe sex, etc. But they have a wide variety of politics, agendas, and personal proclivities.

I would think that a respect for health would include an avoidance of lead, but that's just me :p
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You'd think so, wouldn't you. In SLC, they've been pretty quiet but we're kinda ground zero for the violent side of it:
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_4084079
 
webrocket said:
I had no idea the 'straightedge' referred to a gang.

For better or worse or in reality or fantasy, Vegas has this image of being a place where secrets are kept. But looking at the guys on the list, some of these dudes had weapons with them, others did not. Some had drug histories, others did not. Some were married, others not.

I just don't see a common denominator other than the fact that they are guys who disappeared in or about Vegas.
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....and that's the point. Some of the guys did have weapons, some were involved in drugs. We really don't know if that's the case with SK, do we?
We've speculated that maybe he got caught up in some drug thing, to make money. We were even led in that direction by someone who knew both SLK and the roomie.. As we've talked about before, guns are practically a rite of passage in Utah. It's the norm here to own at least one gun.

The gun-owners would be offended if they were lumped into an "oh, they had a weapon so we can figure that out" category.

The drugs and weapons don't mean you can't be lured away ... or walk away from your life.

IF we're talking about SK being lured away, are we only to consider someone who's not lured before?
 
laytonian said:
Could be lots; if you Google the name, they pop up all over. Just be glad no one in this case is named Smith, Young, Kimball....

Unless "our" GW's been promoted, he's not a Bishop.
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I thought he was a bishop? What is he?
 
hollyblue said:
I thought he was a bishop? What is he?
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GW was first counselor in the Elder's Quorum; SK was second counselor. Abboud is clerk. Paul Doxey is the EQ President, I believe. The bishop is someone else ;)
 
In terms of statistice it would be highly suspicious if even some of the people on the list had similar patterns in their disappearances. And patterns almost never show themselves to us right away, we have to look for them carefully. IMHO.
Something I cannot wrap my head around : Steven and a lover plan to leave, or Steven plans to start a new life someplace. Why would part of the plan be : " Remember, don't bring anything with you except your portfolio. No, don't bring a toothbrush, clean underwear,change of clothes. Not even your shaving kit." Huh ? Thing is, if it was part of the "secret plan " to disappear,it doesn't make sense. Because Steven did not know about the video cameras. So, why on earth could he not have packed a small bag, with just the items I mentioned ? As far as he knew, no one would have seen him. KWIM ?
 
Can anyone find ANY posting by GW, to the "Help Us Find Steven Koecher" Facebook page?
 
liz b. said:
In terms of statistice it would be highly suspicious if even some of the people on the list had similar patterns in their disappearances. And patterns almost never show themselves to us right away, we have to look for them carefully. IMHO.
Something I cannot wrap my head around : Steven and a lover plan to leave, or Steven plans to start a new life someplace. Why would part of the plan be : " Remember, don't bring anything with you except your portfolio. No, don't bring a toothbrush, clean underwear,change of clothes. Not even your shaving kit." Huh ? Thing is, if it was part of the "secret plan " to disappear,it doesn't make sense. Because Steven did not know about the video cameras. So, why on earth could he not have packed a small bag, with just the items I mentioned ? As far as he knew, no one would have seen him. KWIM ?
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Absolutely.

That spot just happens to be the only "dead end" right off Anthem Parkway. I've looked at all the satellite images, and see no other like it. Can anyone else see one? It's a private place to leave a car, where it'd be "safer" than if he left it in a shopping center.

IMO, that brings us down to only two possibilities.

1--Steven intended to return to St George after "whatever". In that case, we haven't found "whatever", have we? That's why I'm trying to see if there's any similar disappearances. We really only know the exact place three disappeared from (the two who disappeared into thin air from Anthem and Morse, who was on a video on South Town St).

2--Steven knew he wouldn't be returning to St George, and that he would never again need his vehicle or any of the items he left behind in his apartment. But he wanted to leave everything "nice" for the people he loved, and not want to hurt them by having them find him. Remember, the landlady said his apartment had been "tidied". Maybe THAT is why he had all of his ID with him.

I know everyone wants there to be a #3, but not taking your underwear when you leave with someone else???
 
not sure if this was posted before. I have not been following this thread as carefully lately.

this is from S.A. who posted at FB:

Apparently I was the last one that talked with Steve. I called him on the phone. He answered and I asked him if he was going to be at church that Sunday so he could tell the priesthood quorum about the basketball game that week. He said that he would not not be able to make it to church. I never bothered to ask him why. Then I asked him if he would be attending the basketball game. He answered again by saying that he could not make it. Again I did not ask why. I then ended the conversation with a bye. His voice on the phone sounded very normal. He was not in any distress. I talked with the police about this call and so they know all about it. I wish I knew more, but I don't. I just hope he is found. He is in all our prayers at the singles ward.
 
webrocket said:
not sure if this was posted before. I have not been following this thread as carefully lately.

this is from S.A. who posted at FB:

Apparently I was the last one that talked with Steve. I called him on the phone. He answered and I asked him if he was going to be at church that Sunday so he could tell the priesthood quorum about the basketball game that week. He said that he would not not be able to make it to church. I never bothered to ask him why. Then I asked him if he would be attending the basketball game. He answered again by saying that he could not make it. Again I did not ask why. I then ended the conversation with a bye. His voice on the phone sounded very normal. He was not in any distress. I talked with the police about this call and so they know all about it. I wish I knew more, but I don't. I just hope he is found. He is in all our prayers at the singles ward.
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We've got that one on the timeline.

There's some discrepancy whether there were two, or three calls from SA. We've got two different times, and no clarification.

First, we were given a definite time for the "basketball" call, which you quote above.

Then, we were told that it was SA who actually made the 11:15am MST call from the PEC meeting, at the request of the Bishop. That call was made from the church itself, and with the illegible phone records, who knows?
 
In regard to whether he was leaving or not, what do you think about the
snack food, pillows, blankets and coats?

It sounds as though he plans on sleeping in his car. Was any of this part of a winter car kit. Was this just thrown into the car or was it packed in the trunk?

Has SK's boss provided information on how often Steven worked for him and has anyone talked to the customers that he serviced. What do you think his monthly salary might have been?
 
Lato said:
Is there a statement in one of the prior threads that SK said he would be back in three days? If so, I cannot find it. I thought it was related to the last phone call from SA. Thanks
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If I remember correctly, the basketball game was on a Wed., and SA ask if he would be back for that, and he said Steven said no.
 
liz b. said:
In terms of statistice it would be highly suspicious if even some of the people on the list had similar patterns in their disappearances. And patterns almost never show themselves to us right away, we have to look for them carefully. IMHO.
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If the statistic of 1,500 missing persons in Vegas (I forget if that was per month or per year) is true, you can always find people of similar demographics in that list.

Vegas is a place where people do crazy and ill advised things and some pay dearly. Some who want to disappear go there because it is so common place.

Think of the movie Leaving Las Vegas. Nicholas Cage's character chose Vegas to drink himself to death.
 
webrocket said:
If the statistic of 1,500 missing persons in Vegas (I forget if that was per month or per year) is true, you can always find people of similar demographics in that list.

Vegas is a place where people do crazy and ill advised things and some pay dearly. Some who want to disappear go there because it is so common place.

Think of the movie Leaving Las Vegas. Nicholas Cage's character chose Vegas to drink himself to death.
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But that's part of the point. IF 1,500 people are *reported* missing, we don't know how many STAY missing. I think Vegas likes to flaunt the image that it's a place to escape to, yet it's actually quite conventional and conservative. What do they have there, that most cities do not? Gambling? It's everywhere. T***y bars? They're everywhere. Big hotels with fancy restaurants? Not so uncommon.

We've been able to dig up (ahem) ONLY a few males who are being sought by families (like Steven). The human detrius isn't being sought.

For those, Vegas MAY have been their "escape". But we don't know.

Show me 1,500 who stay missing and who meet Steven's criteria, and I'll do a quick head-spin ;)
 
hollyblue said:
If I remember correctly, the basketball game was on a Wed., and SA ask if he would be back for that, and he said Steven said no.
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Then we found out that Steven normally didn't go to the basketball games, anyway.
 
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