NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 6

[Mia]

Unless it was in his portfolio... We know he didn't go back to his car. I think we can assume there was only one guitar. I agree with you Laytonian on this.

About the guitar, if we feel like it was so important...another reason to believe he was coming back or thought he was. He could have pawned it for cash if he planned on not returning. I can understand not pawning a computer b/c of information...but why leave a guitar and not just get some cash. There are a million places in Vegas that would probably love a guitar.

Exactly. If he was planning on running away, alone or with someone, why NOT pawn/sell his laptop, guitar, etc? Even if the person did promise to 'take care of him', you'd think he'd still want some back-up cash, just in case. Or like I said before, a change of clothes at the very least? Unless he was merely going to meet someone and then return to his car, and sometime during the meeting he decided/was persuaded to take off?

Fairy is right. Every theory does have something in it that doesn't make sense, and I will never believe Steven is a mastermind of the perfect disappearance and did it that way on purpose to prevent people from figuring out exactly what happened to him.

I'm beginning to think abduction by a UFO is the only theory that makes sense! And I'm only half kidding!

ETA: Or that he was swallowed up by an invisible black hole, and that SCA is a portal to another dimension.

 

[Mia]

I was just thinking about something. What are the LDS church's views on sex before marriage? Is it 'not allowed'? And to all of you LDS'ers, in your experience do you think most people follow this rule? I'm just curious as to how this may relate to the seedling of a theory I'm thinking of. After all, Steven was 30 years old...

 

[Lato]

Exactly. If he was planning on running away, alone or with someone, why NOT pawn/sell his laptop, guitar, etc? Even if the person did promise to 'take care of him', you'd think he'd still want some back-up cash, just in case. Or like I said before, a change of clothes at the very least? Unless he was merely going to meet someone and then return to his car, and sometime during the meeting he decided/was persuaded to take off?

Fairy is right. Every theory does have something in it that doesn't make sense, and I will never believe Steven is a mastermind of the perfect disappearance and did it that way on purpose to prevent people from figuring out exactly what happened to him.

I'm beginning to think abduction by a UFO is the only theory that makes sense! And I'm only half kidding!

ETA: Or that he was swallowed up by an invisible black hole, and that SCA is a portal to another dimension.

Mia...when I first read that the guitar and computer were left at home, and he was wearing only the clothes on his back, I thought "this guy is not running". If he is anything like any young person who loves music and his
guitar, he expects to go back home.

And I don't think he is some kind of mastermind either. If you told me that
the two men were in LV for some female company, I would say you were
right on. The fact that only one came home is what makes me think about
this everyday. I think GW owes Steven and his family the absolute truth
about what he knows.

I'll pass on the UFO and Black Hole.

 

[Helix11]

Mia...when I first read that the guitar and computer were left at home, and he was wearing only the clothes on his back, I thought "this guy is not running". If he is anything like any young person who loves music and his
guitar, he expects to go back home.

And I don't think he is some kind of mastermind either. If you told me that
the two men were in LV for some female company, I would say you were
right on. The fact that only one came home is what makes me think about
this everyday. I think GW owes Steven and his family the absolute truth
about what he knows.

I'll pass on the UFO and Black Hole.

BBM I could not agree more, Lato.

 

[carbuff]

Wish I knew whether any of the St. George people had voices similar to Steven -- or whether he didn't quite sound like himself when those Sunday phone calls were made. The way he was covering ground all the previous week, only showing up briefly at the house, makes me think he was avoiding something or someone.

I hate to say this, but the only scenario that doesn't have a lot of evidence or complicated explanation against is that he walked into the desert to end it all...

edited to add: I could also buy a coverup scenario, where what is being covered up is something scandalous or embarrassing but not directly related to Steven's disappearance. "We know why he left and where he probably is, but we aren't telling because it'll make us look really really stupid."

 

[My6]

I know this is a really strange long shot and I have no idea how it works, but could he have been put in like a witness protection program?? Just a thought I had today is all..

Edit: I got this off of a website about it...

Normally, the witness is provided with a new name and location. Witnesses are encouraged to keep their first names and choose last names with the same initial, in order to make it easier to instinctively use the new identity. The U.S. Marshals Service provides new documentation, assists in finding housing and employment and provides a stipend until the witness gets on his or her feet, but the stipendStipendA stipend is a form of monetary payment or salary, such as for an internship or apprenticeship. It is often distinct from a wage or a salary because it does not necessarily represent payment for work performed, instead it represents a payment that enables somebody to be exempt partly or wholly from...
can be discontinued if the U.S. Marshals Service feels that the witness is not making an aggressive effort to find a job.

A witness is not allowed to travel back to their hometown or contact unprotected family members or former associates. In order to do everything possible to preclude the possibility of the witness being followed, the witness is made to adhere to a convoluted and indirect transportation path before finally reaching the location where they will live under the new identity. Often, the transit involves a long chain of seemingly random air flights with times and locations which are intended to be difficult for a potential adverse party to anticipate.

Around 17 percent of protected witnesses who have committed a crime will be caught committing another crime, compared to the almost 40 percent of parolees who return to crime.

 

[Yeahitsanna]

I was just thinking about something. What are the LDS church's views on sex before marriage? Is it 'not allowed'? And to all of you LDS'ers, in your experience do you think most people follow this rule? I'm just curious as to how this may relate to the seedling of a theory I'm thinking of. After all, Steven was 30 years old...

Churches stance on sex before marriage- big no no. If you do, youre told to go to your bishop (confession in a sense), you wouldnt be temple worthy (they take away your ability to go into the temple temperarley), you have to go through a repentance process.

I believe its pretty much 70/30 on the rule following. 70% follow. and of the 30% who dont, id say about 20% dont confess and end up falling away from the church eventually. This is just my own interpretation. I was born and raised in the church.

 

[laytonian]

I know this is a really strange long shot and I have no idea how it works, but could he have been put in like a witness protection program?? Just a thought I had today is all..

Edit: I got this off of a website about it...

Normally, the witness is provided with a new name and location. Witnesses are encouraged to keep their first names and choose last names with the same initial, in order to make it easier to instinctively use the new identity. The U.S. Marshals Service provides new documentation, assists in finding housing and employment and provides a stipend until the witness gets on his or her feet, but the stipendStipendA stipend is a form of monetary payment or salary, such as for an internship or apprenticeship. It is often distinct from a wage or a salary because it does not necessarily represent payment for work performed, instead it represents a payment that enables somebody to be exempt partly or wholly from...
can be discontinued if the U.S. Marshals Service feels that the witness is not making an aggressive effort to find a job.

A witness is not allowed to travel back to their hometown or contact unprotected family members or former associates. In order to do everything possible to preclude the possibility of the witness being followed, the witness is made to adhere to a convoluted and indirect transportation path before finally reaching the location where they will live under the new identity. Often, the transit involves a long chain of seemingly random air flights with times and locations which are intended to be difficult for a potential adverse party to anticipate.

Around 17 percent of protected witnesses who have committed a crime will be caught committing another crime, compared to the almost 40 percent of parolees who return to crime.

Here's some official references:
US Marshalls
and
FBI

I'm not sure the US Marshalls would take someone into the WPP by letting them just walk away and hitch a ride to the "secret location"....but I guess anything's possible.

Plus, Steven's family would have been notified and given a communications channel (ie, they would be able to send communications to the US Marshalls and those communications would be anonymized and then forwarded to the person being protected).

If you've taken someone into the WPP, wouldn't you keep their disappearance quiet?

 

[laytonian]

Churches stance on sex before marriage- big no no. If you do, youre told to go to your bishop (confession in a sense), you wouldnt be temple worthy (they take away your ability to go into the temple temperarley), you have to go through a repentance process.

I believe its pretty much 70/30 on the rule following. 70% follow. and of the 30% who dont, id say about 20% dont confess and end up falling away from the church eventually. This is just my own interpretation. I was born and raised in the church.

Yes, there's a repentance process...but it doesn't seem to take a long time. My next-door-neighbor was dating an LDS girl who had a toddler out of wedlock (with a previous boyfriend). He converted to Mormonism, and they married in the Salt Lake City temple about a year later.

 

[Yeahitsanna]

Yes, there's a repentance process...but it doesn't seem to take a long time. My next-door-neighbor was dating an LDS girl who had a toddler out of wedlock (with a previous boyfriend). He converted to Mormonism, and they married in the Salt Lake City temple about a year later.

it really depends on the bishop. I had a friend get excommunicated from the church for sex before marriage. Its really on an independent basis and has a lot to do with your bishop. If its a constant thing the circumstances change a lot.

 

[renn3434]

I'm starting to think that our questions directed at the St George area, are much more indepth than have been asked by the St George PD.

In the neighborhood, they interviewed who?
The landlords and the guy across the street?

Any questions we ask, related to a church schedule, are met with stony silence. Even here! What's so wrong about wanting to confirm when "ward temple night" was held?

BBM
I have tried to find this out. This is not some top secret thing, no intentional silence here on my part or anyone that I can tell for that matter. It's not like you're asking us something that we as LDS don't want to discuss. I just simply can't find the answer. I have personally emailed people from the ward and no one will answer me back. When I have the answer though you will be the first to know!

 

[laytonian]

Actually, WE don't know if he went back to his car.... Perhaps someone else does???

Who else would know? LE? The family? The perp?

Both the family and LE have stated that the walking figure seen on CAM3 and CAM7 is never seen again.

So what would it require, to not be seen on a video?

That he approach the car from the west, through that little gutter/waterway on the side of the gate. He'd have to be VERY familiar with the neighborhood, to loop around into a different neighborhood, to avoid the security cameras....and why avoid them? He didn't notice or avoid them the first time.

Could he have been sleeping in the car?
Perhaps -- but wouldn't someone notice?

Could he have made several back and forth trips (through the gate area)?
Perhaps -- but wouldn't someone notice?

Remember, the car was in plain sight by the mailbox. People would have been picking up their mail every day, and the family talked to the letter carrier, who said the car "just sat there for four days".

Steven's cousin said there was "snack food" left in the car. If he had been returning to the car, wouldn't he have eaten it?

The only other possibility is that there's another camera on Mr Security's house, that clearly shows his actions....and would have shown him coming and going. I can't come up with a scenario where so many people would be blocking its release, because it would show a better view of the walking figure.....'cos it's closer to the car and may have been aimed straight in that direction.

I dunno.....just trying to knock things around a bit.

 

[laytonian]

BBM
I have tried to find this out. This is not some top secret thing, no intentional silence here on my part or anyone that I can tell for that matter. It's not like you're asking us something that we as LDS don't want to discuss. I just simply can't find the answer. I have personally emailed people from the ward and no one will answer me back. When I have the answer though you will be the first to know!

Thank you!

I've also got a volunteer on Naegle's Facebook page.....so between the two of you, if we DO end up with two answers, then we have confirmation.

Either that, or we're going to have a WS field trip to St George. It's gotta be better here than this....uh....smoggy inversion

 

[carbuff]

What about attitudes toward gambling? Suicide?

 

[RubyRed]

Churches stance on sex before marriage- big no no. If you do, youre told to go to your bishop (confession in a sense), you wouldnt be temple worthy (they take away your ability to go into the temple temperarley), you have to go through a repentance process.

I believe its pretty much 70/30 on the rule following. 70% follow. and of the 30% who dont, id say about 20% dont confess and end up falling away from the church eventually. This is just my own interpretation. I was born and raised in the church.

Good, grief. Now I am starting to wonder more and more if he just ran as fast as he could.

 

[renn3434]

I think Steven had every intention on returning to St George I don't think he ran away and is living another life. I think he got caught up in something he didn't intend to. If he was planning on running away why answer the phone calls on Sunday morning that he knew would give away his location. It doesn't make sense.
I also can't wrap my head around the scenario or what he was involved with that would lead to his death/disappearance but at the same time leave no trail.

I think GW was his closest friend in St. George. They are seen together in pictures at ward activities and they would have communicated weekly due to their responsibilities in the ward. Also GW would have personally picked Steven to be his counselor. GW would have had to have known Steven well enough to to know whether or not they could work together. Because they knew each other so well (IMO) the conversation that GW claims they had that Sunday morning makes no sense. Who doesn't ask their good friend what they are doing in Vegas? Someone who already knows what they are doing in Vegas. I'm still not saying GW is directly involved. I'm just saying he knows why Steven was In Vegas.

 

[laytonian]

Unless it was in his portfolio... We know he didn't go back to his car. I think we can assume there was only one guitar. I agree with you Laytonian on this.

About the guitar, if we feel like it was so important...another reason to believe he was coming back or thought he was. He could have pawned it for cash if he planned on not returning. I can understand not pawning a computer b/c of information...but why leave a guitar and not just get some cash. There are a million places in Vegas that would probably love a guitar.

The portfolio/folder. Wouldn't we LOVE to know what was in it, so important that it's the only thing he took with him.

That's the reason I wonder if he wasn't acting as a courier or delivery person for someone.

We're up to 14 scenarios, folks:
http://sites.google.com/site/parallelcooler/home/koecher-html/scenarios

Some have slight overlaps, but also significant differences/explanations.

 

[laytonian]

The move just seems like a huge clue, and I never bought what Naegle told us his excuse to his parents was for the move: that he was sick of working nights because he didn't have any time to spend doing activities with his friends. Well, first of all moving to St. George he's not going to see his friends at all, and if he got a day job (9-5) he'd be at work all day, not hanging out with his friends. It just seems like a quickly whipped up cover to me.

I'm kinda figuring it out....and it's making sense.....since HollyBlue "forced" me into believing he'd lived in WVC.

OK...we've heard he quit the Trib because he didn't like working nights.
There's been quotes from his Mom that alluded to him quitting the Trib because he wanted to move somewhere warmer. Well...he didn't move "warmer" until almost a year after he left the Trib.

SO....putting WVC (living with friends, it seems), quitting the Trib job and what Naegle just told us:


"It's been mentioned that Steven lived in West Valley City for awhile (?).
A: Yep. He lived there about 2.5 years ago. The area was around 4100S and 2700W"

Mar 2007 - Jul 2008: Works with SL Tribune's online edition


SO....he's got a place, from some FB clues he's living with some friend(s) ... and he quits his job so he's not the only one working nights.

THEN, later, he moves to St George to get away from the inversions.

Where am I going with this?

MAYBE the people who know Steven the best (and who maybe aren't tight church friends) are his ex-roomie(s) in WVC ... one of them having mentioned that the guitar would have "ruined his life"?????? (Y'all can check FB to put that all together.)

 

[hollyblue]

We actually don't know if there's much different activity by LE between the two cases. Trevor's dad infers that "Defective Marin" is slow to return the calls (at least in 2008, when he starts the name-calling). Calling someone "defective" because you don't like what they say, and then writing websites about it, isn't going to smooth the path.

Morse's dad says "defective" Marin doesn't return emails.
Well....neither does Morse's dad.

I never could find out if the remains found out by Nellis, were Morse's. The father's blog ends there. But Morse is listed in NAMUS, so I guess not.

Interesting that dental records were never submitted to NAMUS.

That's a security video I'd like to see. Dammit.

I wonder if the Koecher's have been asked to submit DNA yet?

 

[laytonian]

I wonder if the Koecher's have been asked to submit DNA yet?

Or dental records.

He's listed on NAMUS.gov, but neither are listed as "available".

Interestingly, NAMUS says that he was last seen on Dec 12.