NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 7

[laytonian]

Guys - come on! Do you really believe he took a wrong turn and the person he asked for help just happened to be a murderer?

Not at all. BUT I can believe he took a wrong turn, and ended up parked where he did.

IMO - Steven was in Anthem for a reason. We need to find out what that reason was.

Yes. Which we're working on.

I have been to the exact spot where Steven's car was found and I'm telling you, I don't believe he took a wrong turn.

Why not? Just because he was right there, does mean that was the "right" right there.

That street is almost literally in the middle of Anthem - which is a large, master-planned community. IMO, he was there for a reason. And the fact that nothing has been found (that we know of!) that explains why he was there THAT DAY at THAT TIME, is very telling. To me anyway.

Why?

What if he was in the wrong place, at the right time?
He'd be right where he was.

JUST MAYBE the reason nothing's been found that leads there is because he was in the wrong place!

Whatever brought him here has been purposely hidden. No traceable phone calls or e-mails and no disclosure to anyone on Steven's part - even when he specifically told a "friend" he was here. Why would that be? WHY? We're overlooking something. Some small, seemingly inconsequential thing. What is it???

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

The fact that where he ended up, IS NOT WHERE he meant to go?

Many have been trying to make that parking place fit a plan, for months.

AND....think about something else: what if this was a drop-in visit to someone, like he did in Ruby Valley just a few days before?
SOMETHING led him to go to Ruby Valley.
Did that same thing lead him to the Vegas area?

Where would he get a street map of SCA?
He had no GPS.

Frankly, I think it'd be IMPOSSIBLE for him to find that SPECIFIC place to park at, without explicit directions, phone calls, etc.

....and that, I believe (for right now), is what's keeping us from figuring out where he went. OR maybe more important: where he meant to go.

(Y'all don't want me to remind you, again, that the "purposeful parking spot" used by Cary Stayner, was actually a random turn down a dirt road -- right? The FBI used the same "He HAD to know where he was going, to get there" argument, for months.)

 

[laytonian]

But no one is coming forward , so that isn't good . That means foul play, or else they probably would have said something.

....unless they figured he changed his mind, and they don't know about the missing persons case.

We keep saying this case is under-publicized.

Maybe we need some missing persons flyers on the mailboxes, over on the Evening Twilight and Chasma Dr streets area.....where the homes are so close together, I think they touch.

 

[laytonian]

im researching the possibility that wendell of RV is the dad or grandfather of EN
who lives in CHASMA maybe the brother of AN? **AN pic on FB is really gorgeous i wonder if he was pursung her and trying to get her family's backing and they tried to protect her from him or they would not give their blessings:waitasec:.

**Looks like a picture of a guy with a gun to me.

I think the N on Chasma is at least 65.

 

[ding174]

Not at all. BUT I can believe he took a wrong turn, and ended up parked where he did.



Yes. Which we're working on.



Why not? Just because he was right there, does mean that was the "right" right there.



Why?

What if he was in the wrong place, at the right time?
He'd be right where he was.

JUST MAYBE the reason nothing's been found that leads there is because he was in the wrong place!



The fact that where he ended up, IS NOT WHERE he meant to go?

Many have been trying to make that parking place fit a plan, for months.

AND....think about something else: what if this was a drop-in visit to someone, like he did in Ruby Valley just a few days before?
SOMETHING led him to go to Ruby Valley.
Did that same thing lead him to the Vegas area?

Where would he get a street map of SCA?
He had no GPS.

Frankly, I think it'd be IMPOSSIBLE for him to find that SPECIFIC place to park at, without explicit directions, phone calls, etc.

....and that, I believe (for right now), is what's keeping us from figuring out where he went. OR maybe more important: where he meant to go.

(Y'all don't want me to remind you, again, that the "purposeful parking spot" used by Cary Stayner, was actually a random turn down a dirt road -- right? The FBI used the same "He HAD to know where he was going, to get there" argument, for months.)

im curious where the CHASMA address came from - was it a post i missed or did you sleuth it:waitasec:
good find

 

[pudd]

(Y'all don't want me to remind you, again, that the "purposeful parking spot" used by Cary Stayner, was actually a random turn down a dirt road -- right? The FBI used the same "He HAD to know where he was going, to get there" argument, for months.)

Good point.

So, we're back to (possibly) a random drop in on someone who wasn't necessarily expecting Steven, and maybe Steven got lost. If it was an unannounced drop in (like Ruby Valley) then no one was expecting him, and no one would be looking for him/calling to see why he didn't make it. Which leaves either foul play or Steven just wandering off and..... :banghead: (<- I feel like this a lot!)

 

[Fairy1]

Not at all. BUT I can believe he took a wrong turn, and ended up parked where he did.

You need to see it with your own eyes. Trust me.


Yes. Which we're working on.

And we're no further than we were 2 and half months ago.

Why not? Just because he was right there, does mean that was the "right" right there.

Again, you need to see it.

Why?

What if he was in the wrong place, at the right time?
He'd be right where he was.

IMO, he does not appear to be in the wrong place at all.

JUST MAYBE the reason nothing's been found that leads there is because he was in the wrong place!

See above.

The fact that where he ended up, IS NOT WHERE he meant to go?

Then why was his car found there? Do you truly believe he just randomly met a diabolical killer after accidently winding up in the wrong place?

Many have been trying to make that parking place fit a plan, for months.

Perhaps.

AND....think about something else: what if this was a drop-in visit to someone, like he did in Ruby Valley just a few days before?
SOMETHING led him to go to Ruby Valley.
Did that same thing lead him to the Vegas area?

Again, perhaps. But he didn't leave his car in RV and just disappear into thin air.

Where would he get a street map of SCA?
He had no GPS.

Mapquest.

Frankly, I think it'd be IMPOSSIBLE for him to find that SPECIFIC place to park at, without explicit directions, phone calls, etc.

So do I.

....and that, I believe (for right now), is what's keeping us from figuring out where he went. OR maybe more important: where he meant to go.

(Y'all don't want me to remind you, again, that the "purposeful parking spot" used by Cary Stayner, was actually a random turn down a dirt road -- right? The FBI used the same "He HAD to know where he was going, to get there" argument, for months.)

Cary Stayner was a murderer attempting to cover up his crimes. Steven is, quite possibly, a victim. Apples/oranges...IMO.

 

[looneymama]

I just wanted to add a link to some info on adult adhd in case anyone was interested. There have been a few times while reading these threads that I have wondered if he has it. http://www.helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_adult_symptoms.htm

One thing that really sticks out to me is his degree without him really "living up to his potential" This can be a huge issue with people with ADHD. It can be really frustrating when you know you are capable of more and you don't know what's holding you back.

Here are a few other symptoms from the site I linked that stand out:
*&#8220;zoning out&#8221; without realizing it, even in the middle of a conversation
* chronic lateness
* frequently forgetting appointments, commitments, and deadlines
* underestimating the time it will take you to complete tasks
* sense of underachievement
* low self-esteem and sense of insecurity

• Physical and mental health problems. The symptoms of ADD/ADHD can contribute to a variety of health problems, including compulsive eating, substance abuse, anxiety, chronic stress and tension, and low self-esteem. You may also run into trouble due to neglecting important check-ups, skipping doctor appointments, ignoring medical instructions, and forgetting to take vital medications.
• Work and financial difficulties. Adults with ADD/ADHD often experience career difficulties and feel a strong sense of underachievement. You may have trouble keeping a job, following corporate rules, meeting deadlines, and sticking to a 9-to-5 routine. Managing finances may also be a problem: you may struggle with unpaid bills, lost paperwork, late fees, or debt due to impulsive spending.
• Relationship problems. The symptoms of ADD/ADHD can put a strain on your work, love, and family relationships. You may be fed up with constant nagging from loved ones to tidy up, listen more closely, or get organized. Those close to you, on the other hand, may feel hurt and resentful over your perceived &#8220;irresponsibility&#8221; or &#8220;insensitivity.&#8221;

The wide-reaching effects of ADD/ADHD can lead to embarrassment, frustration, hopelessness, disappointment, and loss of confidence. You may feel like you&#8217;ll never be able to get your life under control.

(more at link)

 

[laytonian]

im curious where the CHASMA address came from - was it a post i missed or did you sleuth it:waitasec:
good find

I don't know "sleuthing".

Others here have been looking for name linkages, and found things a few miles away.

I decided to look at N, via qwestdex.com "find a person", went through the names and mapped the ones that looked like they were near where the car was parked. Bingo.

BUT it's a common name and I doubt there's an actual connection.

I just like the alternative idea of "he just got lost".

When you zoom OUT of the SCA satellite map, you see a maze of mazes. for all we know, he was looking for something in another part of town.
No map, no BPS.

 

[ding174]

**Looks like a picture of a guy with a gun to me.

I think the N on Chasma is at least 65.

thats a girl i can tell from the build
the pic is newly posted
the prior pic if it was her looked like model material. she was the best looking female pic on his help us find SK fb page

interesting she posted a pic of her with an older model black powder rifle
very interesting too that the pic was taken by their ranch:waitasec:

the pics silent message is "DONT MESS WITH ME" LOL

 

[Fairy1]

One more thing....I sincerely appreciate Naegle's insights in relation to GW. HOWEVER, she is not LE. I have never been supportive of the idea that Steven's family question GW. I would prefer an armed detective did so at the station in an interrogation room. Course, that's just MO.

 

[RubyRed]

One more thing....I sincerely appreciate Naegle's insights in relation to GW. HOWEVER, she is not LE. I have never been supportive of the idea that Steven's family question GW. I would prefer an armed detective did so at the station in an interrogation room. Course, that's just MO.

I totally agree.

 

[laytonian]

Cary Stayner was a murderer attempting to cover up his crimes. Steven is, quite possibly, a victim. Apples/oranges...IMO.

I'm not talking about a cover-up of a crime. In fact, you're the one who was just posting about Steven covering up why he was there (ie, you said he was hiding emails and phone calls, etc).

I'm talking about someone turning up in a location, WITHOUT planning to go there.

A random action WILL APPEAR to be purposeful to a later viewer, if that later viewer does not know how the action occurred. That's why the Stayner example works so well.
Are you telling me that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY someone could end up there, by accident or wrong turn?

Let me try explaining "randomness" another way.

Do you remember Steve Hartman(the CBS newsman) and his "everyone has a story" TV news stories? He'd have someone toss a dart at a map. The dart would land on a town. He'd go to that town, open the phone book, flip through it randomly, and stab at it. Whatever name was there, would be the subject of his next news report.

THAT is randomness.

BUT...if you don't understand HOW he ended up interviewing a certain person, you'd be bedeviled trying to to figure out the hidden connection between Hartman and that story subject.

-----------------

I know what you're saying. I've been places like that. But it's still possible to get there, without intending to be there.

That's why it's called "lost".

 

[pudd]

Ok then, all I can think of is that Steven gets disoriented because he's lost, falls or injures himself and.... but it would have to be in an isolated area, because to my knowledge no one's reported an odor (sorry everyone).

Unless it was the last straw for Steven? "I'm so useless and I can't even follow directions and I'm lost (and have no job/girlfriend/etc) so now I'm going to end it all"?

I just don't know.

Looneymama, thanks for your insights into adult adhd. It does sound frustrating and destabilizing.

 

[Fairy1]

One thing I want to mention that I don't think has been mentioned before....

Entering Vegas from Utah (I-15 South), Anthem is literally on the COMPLETE opposite side of the valley. And not accessible from I-15.

If a person coming in from Utah simply wanted to ditch their car and walk away, there are thousands of neighborhoods between the entry point of LV and the spot where Steven's car was found.

This is one of the reasons I believe Steven was in SCA on purpose.

If he accidentally parked in the wrong place and got lost on foot, would he really not have been able to get back to his car in 4 days. Really?

 

[laytonian]

One more thing....I sincerely appreciate Naegle's insights in relation to GW. HOWEVER, she is not LE. I have never been supportive of the idea that Steven's family question GW. I would prefer an armed detective did so at the station in an interrogation room. Course, that's just MO.

Do we know that LE hasn't talked to him?

I think it's possible that GW's as fragile as SK is.

....and remember, GW has now placed himself at a certain spot (near the Las Vegas Speedway) when he was on the phone. That can be verified.

 

[laytonian]

One thing I want to mention that I don't think has been mentioned before....

Entering Vegas from Utah (I-15 South), Anthem is literally on the COMPLETE opposite side of the valley. And not accessible from I-15.

What about Exit 27, from the south? Or I-215?

If a person coming in from Utah simply wanted to ditch their car and walk away, there are thousands of neighborhoods between the entry point of LV and the spot where Steven's car was found.

This is one of the reasons I believe Steven was in SCA on purpose.

If he accidentally parked in the wrong place and got lost on foot, would he really not have been able to get back to his car in 4 days. Really?

The "he was lost" theory is not a "ditched the car" theory. Just the opposite.

What if he fell or was injured?
What if he had an overdose?

 

[Fairy1]

I'm not talking about a cover-up of a crime. In fact, you're the one who was just posting about Steven covering up why he was there (ie, you said he was hiding emails and phone calls, etc).

I'm talking about someone turning up in a location, WITHOUT planning to go there.

A random action [ B]WILL APPEAR to be purposeful[/b] to a later viewer, if that later viewer does not know how the action occurred. That's why the Stayner example works so well.
Are you telling me that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY someone could end up there, by accident or wrong turn?

Let me try explaining "randomness" another way.

Do you remember Steve Hartman(the CBS newsman) and his "everyone has a story" TV news stories? He'd have someone toss a dart at a map. The dart would land on a town. He'd go to that town, open the phone book, flip through it randomly, and stab at it. Whatever name was there, would be the subject of his next news report.

THAT is randomness.

BUT...if you don't understand HOW he ended up interviewing a certain person, you'd be bedeviled trying to to figure out the hidden connection between Hartman and that story subject.

-----------------

I know what you're saying. I've been places like that. But it's still possible to get there, without intending to be there.

That's why it's called "lost".

BBM. I actually DO understand the definition of random.

I am telling you that it is extremely unlikely that a person, unfamiliar with this city, would randomly wind up where Steven's car was found. It cannot be accessed by I-15 which, as you well know, is the only way into Vegas from Utah. And the route into Anthem is via Eastern Avenue. Not simple to find, if you don't know where you're going or have specific directions.

 

[Fairy1]

Do we know that LE hasn't talked to him?

I think it's possible that GW's as fragile as SK is.

....and remember, GW has now placed himself at a certain spot (near the Las Vegas Speedway) when he was on the phone. That can be verified.

No, we don't know. And yes, it can be verified. I know that and YOU know that, but some folks just aren't aware of such things.

 

[Fairy1]

What about Exit 27, from the south? Or I-215?



The "he was lost" theory is not a "ditched the car" theory. Just the opposite.

What if he fell or was injured?
What if he had an overdose?

Where? I learned last week that it was Anthem that was searched - including culverts and drain pipes - as well as the foothills surrounding the area.

If Steven simply lost his car, wouldn't he have asked someone for help? Wouldn't someone have seen or spoken to him that day?

 

[ding174]

or maybe he didnt tell anyone what he was up to was because they all either tried to talk him out of it before or he knew they would disapprove and he couldnt take their negativity anymore and hard headedly went forward with his plan.
then got lost
walked around trying to get his bearings and . . .
stumbled upon a crime in progress like . . . some guys trying to break into a house whose owners arent home - lets say . . .and thinking they were locked out like the girls in st george offers to help .. . then . . ."No idiot' - as they point guns at him - "Does this (pointing their guns) look like were locked out?" "Now since youve seen us, get in the trunk . . . !"
The imagination fills in the rest of the story
:waitasec: