NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 9

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In other words, one person would have to work really hard to put a body there. It just seems to me there's so many other, better areas - and if you're just dumping it ON the ground, you're really not hiding it. Some guy could come along with a trailer full of junk and dump it the next day.

Could you hide a body under any of the dumped stuff?
I'm assuming no mattresses, large pieces of carpet, disturbed ground.

I didn't see a lot of trash and debris on the culvert side with the large rocks. I did see a LOT of stuff dumped around toward the west side (no, I didn't stick to my straight line.) There were a few big piles of cinder blocks that I think should be dug up. There was quite a bit of other trash in those same areas. It was clear someone used it as a personal dump. I found what I thought looked like a grave and had fasteddy4 look at it. It was hard to tell if it was "unusual" or not - just a big pile of dirt with rocks on top. We flagged it. fasteddy actually did find what appeared to be a pet's grave.

I just can't see one person literally carrying a body too far into where we were searching today. They would had to have had some type of vehicle. Or another person.

Here's another thing - several small planes and helicopters flew over this area while we were there today. There's no way someone could venture into that desert in the light of day to dispose of a body. And eddy (who lives close by) said the airport area is pitch black at night, so that seems an unlikely time to dump a body as well.
 
bbm

It is obvious this isn't a suicide. I'm curious about the tip.

I think the detective is covering all the bases in his search. You hope for the best, but think with the worst in mind. I think we're all curious about the tip...wouldn't be WS's if we weren't.
 
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10342762

(snip)
According to Rolf Koecher, Steven's father, the volunteers separated into five teams which were assigned to specific areas of the desert. They found and marked suspicious items such as clothing, a spent bullet casing -- even areas that looked like shallow graves.
http://www.ksl.com/emedia/slc/1932/193262/19326232.jpg
Rolf Koecher says the searchers discovered clothing that may have belonged to his son. They also discovered several bone fragments, but couldn't determine if they were human. The fragments were sent to the coroner's office for analysis.
 
I wanted to share my experience with the search today.
snipped:In one area there was a pile of rocks that had smaller rocks meticulously piled on top of each other that is supposed to be investigaged further.

I have a photo of this pile of rocks, as well as photos of piles of debris, and gully areas. 33 photos without people in them.
 
A few of the searchers did come across a few things. There were keys that were found, also lots of articles of clothing in a few places. In one area there was a pile of rocks that had smaller rocks meticulously piled on top of each other that is supposed to be investigaged further.

Like a cairn? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairn

I know they can mark burial sites, but I've also seen them used as visual markers for other reasons. There's a local (to Seattle) hiking trail where a cairn marks a difficult-to-see offshoot of the main trail that heads over a small hill to a waterfall. Without the cairn, you'd never know the falls were there.
 
Fairy1: Can you give us an idea of GW's demeanor today?
Was he talkative with others? Did he keep his distance? Quiet?

ETA: I am curious what the other information that the PI has is? Is it evidence or just knowledge or speculations?

I really can't speak to GW's demeanor, holly. He showed up pretty late, so I didn't get to observe for long.

I did see him speaking to some folks after the search and I suppose he seemed okay. I don't know who he came with.

The PI seems pretty confident - and determined - about finding a resolution.
 
Here's another thing - several small planes and helicopters flew over this area while we were there today. There's no way someone could venture into that desert in the light of day to dispose of a body. And eddy (who lives close by) said the airport area is pitch black at night, so that seems an unlikely time to dump a body as well.

That's a very good point AND one that also applies to the SP case: You'd have less privacy at night than during daylight.

Why? Because you'd have to light up yourself and the area you're working in. Nothing like putting a spotlight on yourself, while you're trying to hide a body or dig a grave.

There's a reason you don't plant a tree at 2:00am.

About all you could do at night, is a quick dump and get the he!! out of there.
 
Volunteers from 3 states search for missing Utah man in Nevada

19326075.jpg


Rolf Koecher says the searchers discovered clothing that may have belonged to his son. They also discovered several bone fragments, but couldn't determine if they were human. The fragments were sent to the coroner's office for analysis.

Following a tip, search crews visited a homeless camp near the area where a young man had reportedly been staying for the past few months. The camp turned out to be abandoned but searchers took pictures of clothing found there.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10342762
 
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10342762

(snip)
According to Rolf Koecher, Steven's father, the volunteers separated into five teams which were assigned to specific areas of the desert. They found and marked suspicious items such as clothing, a spent bullet casing -- even areas that looked like shallow graves.
http://www.ksl.com/emedia/slc/1932/193262/19326232.jpg
Rolf Koecher says the searchers discovered clothing that may have belonged to his son. They also discovered several bone fragments, but couldn't determine if they were human. The fragments were sent to the coroner's office for analysis.

How were suspicious items marked?

Little flags?

Just curious.
 
That's a very good point AND one that also applies to the SP case: You'd have less privacy at night than during daylight.

Why? Because you'd have to light up yourself and the area you're working in. Nothing like putting a spotlight on yourself, while you're trying to hide a body or dig a grave.

There's a reason you don't plant a tree at 2:00am.

About all you could do at night, is a quick dump and get the he!! out of there.

True, unless it's a clear night with a full moon. Especially in the SW where everything is so open.
 
It amazes me how little attention many people pay to the world around them. I still wonder how Shawn Hornbeck was never noticed -- or why no one thought it was strange Phillip Garrido had a young blond girl with him. Doesn't anyone ever stop and say, "hmm, maybe I should look into this." On a rare occasion, I'll see a child that looks uncomfortable with an adult, and I'll usually observe (from a distance) just to make sure everything's okay. How come no one recognzied "Mall Man" in Minnesota? He was from that region, yet in five years no one identified him though his case was heavily publicized.
 
http://www.ksl.com/emedia/slc/1932/193262/19326232.jpg
Rolf Koecher says the searchers discovered clothing that may have belonged to his son. They also discovered several bone fragments, but couldn't determine if they were human. The fragments were sent to the coroner's office for analysis.

The figure on the video was wearing a shirt, pants, underwear, shoes, socks and sacred LDS garments.
They'd be immediately recognizable to those of your faith, and many other people -- and would be instantly ID'd as Steven-specific items.

Respectful questions for our LDS users:

What kind of fabric are your temple garments are made of?

Would they be more (or less) likely to degrade, if left exposed in the elements for a few months?

Were searchers reminded to look for them?

Thank you.
 
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10342762

Oh, man. So NOW we find out it's a "young man" and "he'd been there for months"?

I tell you. NO ONE pays attention to the world around themselves any more. At all.

:furious: is right Lay. Couldn't they give an update on the description of this young man? If I had a homeless person living in my subdivision and was aware of it...he'd get reported. My word, do the people living around there have children or grandchildren who may go off into the desert to
"investigate or play"? What they H is wrong with people today?
 
It amazes me how little attention many people pay to the world around them. I still wonder how Shawn Hornbeck was never noticed -- or why no one thought it was strange Phillip Garrido had a young blond girl with him. Doesn't anyone ever stop and say, "hmm, maybe I should look into this." On a rare occasion, I'll see a child that looks uncomfortable with an adult, and I'll usually observe (from a distance) just to make sure everything's okay. How come no one recognzied "Mall Man" in Minnesota? He was from that region, yet in five years no one identified him though his case was heavily publicized.

Or Elizabeth Smart, walking around SLC and San Diego for months, standing out in the crowd BECAUSE SHE WAS WEARING A VEIL.

She walked into Whole Foods several times, right through the door that had her picture on the door. IN A VEIL.

Mitchell and Barzee took Elizabeth TO A PARTY and no one questioned a thing.

People don't want to get involved. People really don't care about others.

AND...if people believe Steven is walking around alive, we really need an alternate picture of him with four-months hair growth.
 
Fer cryin' out loud!!! Argh.

Thanks and well done everyone who took part in the search. I really appreciate your on the spot reports.

fasteddy4 has Appalled's post. Maybe if you ask him real nice, he'll send it to you. Privately, of course.
 
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10342762

Oh, man. So NOW we find out it's a "young man" and "he'd been there for months"?

I tell you. NO ONE pays attention to the world around themselves any more. At all.

I sure would like to know where this information came from. Steven's cousin, Jeff, and another looked at that campsite before the search this morning. It was my understanding they were going back there later with Rolf to take a closer look. I hope they did.
 
A couple more things:

First, somehow some of the searches got the idea that the cement water drainage ditch to the east of the search was just done a few months ago. I highly doubted that when I heard them say that today. Now, that I am looking at the satellite I see that I am right. It is very easy to see in Google Maps. These people were thinking that maybe Steven could have been covered up when the ditch was made. But, I now know that is not possible since the ditch was already there when he disappeared.

Second, for all you that were not there. The area we searched was the "triangle" section directly south of the airport. It's an upside down triangle if you look at the satellite photo on Google Maps. Fairy1 and I were on the left/west far side of the triangle. Eventually the area narrowed down to where I could easily cross to the east side and actually walk along the drainage ditch north back to Volunteer Blvd. On that walk the only thing that stood out to me is that allow there is a chainlink fence that protects the ditch, every once in a while there is a door where the ditch can be accessed. And the chainlink doors are not locked. You can open them right up, no problem.

Third, what you cannot tell from the satellite map is that the ground goes uphill as you go south from Volunteer until you get to a plateau. It is a very gradual rise but it is definitely noticeable from Volunteer. Plus, the drainage ditch to the east sits downhill, almost straight downhill from that plateau. In fact, Fairy1 watche me perilously negotiate that steep hill as I worked my way down to the ditch.

Fourth, a few different people while I was there today asked me how far it is from the search area to Evening Lights. Driving: 5 to 7 mins. Walking if by the streets: 45 mins. Walking if trying to go by a straight line: No idea. And don't be confused by the satellite photo as it looks like is just a very straight walk ENE from Evening Lights to the search area. That area is very hilly and bounded by several walls between Evening Lights and the search area. And even in a straight line the walk is about 6000feet. That's a mile and an eighth. And not an easy walk.

Fifth, being a decently fit 39yo guy, I do not believe one person could carry Steven into that search area. With training, like they do in the military, I suppose. But just some guy off the street? It would be difficult. Even two guys holding arms and legs would have their hands full. The terrain is uneven. The road is decently well traveled. There are houses that look on to the search area. MAYBE if someone took a car up the dirt road on the west side of the triangle. Then, it would be easier to take a body out into the area. But, big trucks go up there and dump rock. And I walked along the edge of that road for most of my walk. Nothing there.

Sixth, there has been mentioning of rain between December and now. That would definitely affect the area. You could go out to that area six months from now and it would look totally different. Not even us Las Vegans realize how the desert becomes a river when it rains hard. If anything of any consequence was in the area, it could have been wash away. Just sayin'

Lastly, having said all that, there was evidence that people do go out in that area. I personally found a gravesite for a dog named Jazz. I think Fairy1 saw the site as well. I also found rocks piled up right near the ridge overlooking the drainage ditch. So, people do go out there. But carrying somebody out there? Hard to imagine it.
 
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