GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #5

[SStarr33]

On his FB page, he said exactly that.

He posted that immediately after he posted a picture of another Camino he had just bought.

You must have missed my correction. BTW, what year is the El Camino that he sold and what year is the reward El Camino? I asked earlier and got no response. Go figure.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Yes, you are correct! Well, sort of. Your example of misuse of "is" and "are" isn't a problem of tense but of number. My example (which I incorrectly said isn't tense) is indeed improper tense. So we is both correct and we is both incorrect. I seen that happen all the time.

True, true. How did he finish a bachelors program and law school without having proper command of the English language? I consider it a mandatory skill for attorneys, yet, he somehow reached the status of DA.

 

[SStarr33]

This is why I have a hard time accepting one definitive version of events since none really make that much sense. BM in fact testified to this that his mom would normally either call the police or have RM deal with it. Whether there was road rage or not both seem equally inexplicable.

This might help you understand:

http://www.lessonsinlaw.com/why-humans-make-unreliable-eyewitnesses/

 

[SStarr33]

Self defense is not a valid defense if the person trying to claim self defense was the original aggressor. All of the testimony so far indicates that BM & TM were the original aggressors. You can't go pick a fight with someone and then shoot them and claim self defense. It doesn't work that way.

And if the fight is over, you can't go murder someone.

 

[sonjay]

Then how do you explain that BM states TM took him to the scene of the incident and identified the car as the same car in the incident? That's not part of KM's testimony.

It's part and parcel of rejecting KM's story that I also reject the parts of BM's story that are based on KM's story. KM running into the house to get her brother, the xbox, etc.

I firmly and unapologetically believe that KM's story is a complete fabrication from beginning to end. I have seen not a single scintilla of evidence in support of her story. LE has said there was no accident damage to the Buick. They're not looking for the spiky-haired dude in the sketch. The driving lesson story just doesn't make sense in any way, shape or form. The very first time TM ever took her for a driving lesson? At 11pm to practice parallel parking? No, I just don't buy it.

No, I believe that KM's original story was intended to completely replace the story of "what really happened." They didn't want to admit that they went out with their mom with a gun to hunt down EN, so they made up the driving lesson story. They originally didn't tell any part of BM's story; the silver road rage car originally followed them home, and BM only came out of the house to return fire. The driving lesson/road rage story was intended to be the whole story.

When they realized it was going to come out that BM was in the car, they had already told the driving lesson/road rage story. Rather than come clean and admit it was made up, they pretended it was true and then tacked on the BM car chase part to explain BM's involvement.

I won't be surprised if KM cracks and recants her story before the trial. If she tries to stick to that story for the trial, the Clauses are going to eat her alive.

 

[sonjay]

You must have missed my correction. BTW, what year is the El Camino that he sold and what year is the reward El Camino? I asked earlier and got no response. Go figure.

It's on his FB page. Upthread a few pages I posted the exact date and time of his post.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

This might help you understand:

http://www.lessonsinlaw.com/why-humans-make-unreliable-eyewitnesses/

I'm well aware of unreliable witnesses and as such the less corroboration, the less I consider it. However, it is the most corroborated incident that to me is the most inexplicable - why the Buick chased the Audi - which all sides testified to that plus there is the physical evidence of the first shooting back that up that it happened, so I don't think the existence or non-existence of the Buick chase can be tallied up to unreliable witnesses.

 

[al66pine]

According to zillow, (which could be wrong), their house is a 3/2 and 1310 sq ft. I bring this up because I'm back to trying to figure out who lives there (and for my curiosity, where in the house do they live?)
Bedroom #1: Tm and Bob
Bedroom #2: granny and km???
bedroom #3: brandon, junior and MM?
ETA: I agree BM was likely couch surfing. 1310 is small to have 2 baths. The bedrooms must be small.

bbm

Short answer:
Tho zillow says 3/2 & XXXX ft, but could 4-5 bed & many more ft as a practical matter.

Long answer:
Depends on who measures sq ft, & counts bedrooms, & what they include and exclude.
Per architect plans, for permits......................X sq ft,
per county assessmt bd for taxes...................Y sq ft,
per prop appraiser, for mortgage loan.............Z sq ft.

Common discrepancy among these ^ sources w bedroom count & sq ft stems from 'lower level' space & how it's characterized.
Unfinished basement (w concrete walls & floors, water heater, furnace, maybe W & D), not counted in either bed or sq ft (IIUC).
However in lower levels sometimes w one or two walls full sized windows and regular doors to back yard (not just emergency type stairwell & door)
lower bedroom, fam room, etc is not counted in bed or sq ft., even if totally finished out in arch plans, and in actuality.

R/E listing can say 3/2 on main floor, plus his & her offices inlower level. Or library & 2nd rec room on lower level. Or play room in upper level.
(Tech. prob. w counting some of these as BR is they may lack a second egress, door or big window req'ed for bedroom count for code purposes.
To meet fire code reqmts, for firefighters, 02 tanks & gear to get in, windows must be certain size, low enough, etc. Otherwise, tech not a BR)

Sometimes those lower level rooms are occupied as bedrooms even though they would not be counted as bedrooms for purposes of
- occupancy permits, if co. issues them, or
- for prop appraiser for loans, if buyer seeks mortgage loan at time of purchase or for re-fi.

Poss that house is larger than zillow reflects. IME, imo. Back on topic.

ETA: Personally still puzzled about who lives/lived there at time of shooting. Did BM live there or not?
Was his 'homebase' at buddy or girlfriend's house or apt, but couch surfing elsewhere , e.g. parent's home, sometimes?

 

[SStarr33]

It's on his FB page. Upthread a few pages I posted the exact date and time of his post.

I know. I saw it and you are wrong.

 

[sonjay]

I know. I saw it and you are wrong.

If you cared enough to enlighten us about what exactly is wrong and what you saw on RM's FB page that makes you think I was wrong, it would be helpful. As it is, your post is 100% non-helpful. Please try to do better; we all appreciate helpful posts.

 

[jayme1133]

Not true. The Meyerses were hunting for EN, and then chasing EN.

The very nicest interpretation I can put on their actions that night is that they were in fact actually out hunting for the road rager, and they thought EN was the road rager and chased him. The very nicest interpretation is that they chased the wrong guy because they thought he was someone else.

It's indisputable that they, in their car, approached him in his friend's car, and began chasing EN and his friend. Both BM and EN describe that. EN was sitting there not bothering anybody. The Meyerses came along and chased him.

I'm so busy reading and catching up w/ my fav sluethers I'm not responding much...BUT this one gets me....if TM wasn't "hunting" she'd be alive!!!

 

[Miss Muffet]

I just thought of something else that verifies TM and BM didn't leave the house to simply look at the scene of the accident, and they weren't innocently driving home from the scene of the incident when they were "ambushed."

After going to the scene of the incident, they saw the Audi and followed. They didn't turn onto Cherry River towards home. They passed Cherry River continuing to follow the Audi before stopping just past Cherry River. Remember, they had to back up the buick to flee onto Cherry River after the first shooting. As a result, they couldn't possibly have been innocently driving back home from the scene of the incident because they had passed up the street that was the way to their house.

 

[SStarr33]

I'm so busy reading and catching up w/ my fav sluethers I'm not responding much...BUT this one gets me....if TM wasn't "hunting" she'd be alive!!!

And if EN wasn't one of the dregs of society Tammy would be alive!!!

Tammy paid for her mistake with her life. Now it's time to lock up the who murdered her.

 

[Miss Muffet]

It's part and parcel of rejecting KM's story that I also reject the parts of BM's story that are based on KM's story. KM running into the house to get her brother, the xbox, etc.

I firmly and unapologetically believe that KM's story is a complete fabrication from beginning to end. I have seen not a single scintilla of evidence in support of her story. LE has said there was no accident damage to the Buick. They're not looking for the spiky-haired dude in the sketch. The driving lesson story just doesn't make sense in any way, shape or form. The very first time TM ever took her for a driving lesson? At 11pm to practice parallel parking? No, I just don't buy it.

No, I believe that KM's original story was intended to completely replace the story of "what really happened." They didn't want to admit that they went out with their mom with a gun to hunt down EN, so they made up the driving lesson story. They originally didn't tell any part of BM's story; the silver road rage car originally followed them home, and BM only came out of the house to return fire. The driving lesson/road rage story was intended to be the whole story.

When they realized it was going to come out that BM was in the car, they had already told the driving lesson/road rage story. Rather than come clean and admit it was made up, they pretended it was true and then tacked on the BM car chase part to explain BM's involvement.

I won't be surprised if KM cracks and recants her story before the trial. If she tries to stick to that story for the trial, the Clauses are going to eat her alive.

How do you explain how BM and KM could have coordinated this part of the story when they had very limited time before the ambulance and LE arrived, not to mention they would be focused on TM's condition during that time period?

 

[Gin]

I'm so busy reading and catching up w/ my fav sluethers I'm not responding much...BUT this one gets me....if TM wasn't "hunting" she'd be alive!!!

That is the really tragic part of this very strange story. Why in the world was grabbing a gun and her son a better idea than staying home and calling 911. Sad.

And if EN wasn't one of the dregs of society Tammy would be alive!!!

Tammy paid for her mistake with her life. Now it's time to lock up the who murdered her.

I am one of those who believes in our justice system. Innocent until proven guilty means something to me. I am OK with waiting for the trial.
I will continue to refer to him as EN.

 

[SStarr33]

I just thought of something else that verifies TM and BM didn't leave the house to simply look at the scene of the accident, and they weren't innocently driving home from the scene of the incident when they were "ambushed."

After going to the scene of the incident, they saw the Audi and followed. They didn't turn onto Cherry River towards home. They passed Cherry River continuing to follow the Audi before stopping just past Cherry River. Remember, they had to back up the buick to flee onto Cherry River after the first shooting. As a result, they couldn't possibly have been innocently driving back home from the scene of the incident because they had passed up the street that was the way to their house.

How can you know that? He puts them on Starboard which is 8 minutes away

 

[PaperDoll]

I'm re-reading the GJ Transcript (why? because I have nothing else to do ) and this proves to me that TM was in the car driving with BM. I know some think she wasn't and ran out to see what was going on. She had her purse with her.

Q. In the photograph by the lighted front door
of the Meyers' vehicle, was a wallet and contents
observed and photographed by where the victim's body had
recently laid?
A. Yes.
Q. Showing you Grand Jury Exhibit Number 12.
What are we looking at in that case?
A. This is the driver's license of the victim
Tammy Meyers.
Q. And then Exhibit 13 is a closeup of her
driver's license?
A. That's correct.
Q. And that was located in a purse right
outside the driver's side door; is that correct?

 

[jjenny]

I'm re-reading the GJ Transcript (why? because I have nothing else to do ) and this proves to me that TM was in the car driving with BM. I know some think she wasn't and ran out to see what was going on. She had her purse with her.

Q. In the photograph by the lighted front door
of the Meyers' vehicle, was a wallet and contents
observed and photographed by where the victim's body had
recently laid?
A. Yes.
Q. Showing you Grand Jury Exhibit Number 12.
What are we looking at in that case?
A. This is the driver's license of the victim
Tammy Meyers.
Q. And then Exhibit 13 is a closeup of her
driver's license?
A. That's correct.
Q. And that was located in a purse right
outside the driver's side door; is that correct?

Of course she was there. Some people have a wild imagination. Very, very wild.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I just thought of something else that verifies TM and BM didn't leave the house to simply look at the scene of the accident, and they weren't innocently driving home from the scene of the accident when they were "ambushed."

After going to the scene of the incident, they saw the Audi and followed. They didn't turn onto Cherry River towards home. They passed Cherry River continuing to follow the Audi before stopping just past Cherry River. Remember, they had to back up the buick to flee onto Cherry River after the first shooting. As a result, they couldn't possibly have been innocently driving back home from the scene of the incident.

I don't think BM even claims that, but says it was part of the chase and they didn't back up until they were fired upon. I don't know what the expected outcome of this was other than someone getting shot at as short of that TM allegedly wasn't backing off.

 

[al66pine]

I think it's clear LE was only interested in arresting EN anyway they could once they had KK as a witness. I also think after she called the police, they might have asked her to talk to EN again and ask questions like "what type of car was he in." Because KK says EN said it was a silver four door Audi in the warrant. I always thought it was a weird piece of information for EN to relay to friends while talking about being in a shootout.

Seems weird to me too, but is it poss original convo went like this:
EN: refers to event w 'Audi ###' (or series)
KK: 'Is that a big Audi or little one?' (I might h/asked, thinking - My neighbor's Audi is ###, was it like that or not?)
EN: 'a large four door.'

But then again some ppl, esp young dudes talking about cars, sometimes tend to be waaaaay specific about them. Or not. IDK.