GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #6

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jjenny said:
Confront him about what? BM didn't even know EN, according to his grand jury testimony. And if BM wanted to confront EN in the park, why exactly hasn't he done so when EN was alone? If BM was in the park with a gun, he could have easy shot EN when EN was in the park doing whatever it is EN is doing in the park. EN had to call for his ride and wait, so there was plenty of time to "confront him" when he was not in a car and alone. So, no, it doesn't make more sense.
Click to expand...

Here is an idea:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nned-19-year-old-said-buying-Xanax-years.html

'All this stuff with Mrs Meyers, is all pharmaceutical pills and drugs. That's what Erich sold at that park. And that's why Mrs Meyers went there, picking up pharmaceutical pills from Erich, like Xanax. The kid sold it right there at that concrete table, day in day out.'

AND

Outside the hearing district attorney Steven B Wolfson told Daily Mail Online: 'There's been some speculation about drugs and drug use - but that's not the heart of the case.

Maybe not the heart of the case but part of the case. That's how I read it.
 
SpanishInquisition said:
Conspiracy to Commit Murder does not require a murder to happen. By Moggs own testimony he said EN was trying to retreat to his home, but for some reason ended up on Mt Shasta:

According to Detective Mogg EN directed Andrews to his home because he was concerned about that but Andrews ended up on Mt Shasta. This would just be Andrews taking the left too soon by mistake on Mt Shasta instead of Cherry River. EN trying to get Andrews to drive him home but ending up on Mt Shasta is no conspiracy.
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I totally believe EN was trying to get home by a shortcut. I think he was surprised to see the Buick on Mt. Shasta. The Audi was in the process of heading out of the cul de sac when EN noticed the Buick there. If you read the GJ testimony, it is clear. IMO.
 
jjenny said:
This appears to be some sort of abbreviated version because that's not the sequence of events presented at the Grand Jury.
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We agree, lol!! Exactly, It is what LE presented to GJ to get an indictment. LVDA is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. That is why we are all complaining. Can't change the story once AGAIN to convict 2 people. Charge the Meyers too for carrying a gun and on a stupid chase instead of staying home. Whats good for one or two should be good for all involved!
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Of course not, but the conduct of the legal gun owner does. Brandon did not shoot at anyone at any time until the shooter came to his own home and property firing 24 shots at him and his mother. Only THEN did he return fire.

I haven't seen them start anything other than searching for the car where the occupant threatened Kristal.
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It is BM's misfortune that the family has no common sense and that they got into a situation where they were in over their heads. Do you REALLY think that if BM had a head on his shoulders that he would have left the home in search of an anonymous road rager. They were safe in the home, for heaven's sake. Who the hell cares if BM was a legal gun owner. He gives gun owners a bad name. The fact that he wanted to fire his gun and failed (evidenced by the unspent shell in the passenger seat) tells me he wanted to shoot but was too incompetent and too panicked to figure it out. If he didn't want to shoot after being fired upon, well, there is no hope for him.
 
This is an article where one of his friends says that EN had showed him the gun a few days before the incident and told him that it was a registered gun that he got for his protection:
Daily Mail Online spoke to one person who has known him for a number of years – who asked not to be named – and he said three years ago Nowsch only had one tattoo and was always getting picked on by bigger kids.

The source explained: 'Baby G, everybody called him that because he was so small. He's 19 but looks 14. He had to take pills just to grow.

'Everyone kept on robbing him and robbing him. I think he got a gun because he was getting robbed.

'I saw him four days before the shooting and he showed me the gun. He told me it was registered to him. He said he had got it for protection. But do I see him going around shooting somebody's mom? No.'
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nned-19-year-old-said-buying-Xanax-years.html
 
SeeAlice said:
Glad you mentioned that because I didn't understand the significance of a full metal jacket bullet.

http://gunnoob.com/Home/tabid/55/entryid/308/Hollow-Points-vs-Full-Metal-Jacket-Ammo.aspx
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I had edited it to include the information because, I too was confused about full metal jacket, so DH went and got a bunch of bullets and demonstrated.

Its a full metal jacket or a hollow point on the market.

Incidentally, full metal jackets are what are supposed to be used in warfare in the geneva convention because they cause the least amount of damage. They can, however,go in and out a person and hit someone behind that person.

Full metal jackets are good for target practice because they make a nice clean hole so you can see where your bullet went.

The hollow point is what is used more for personal protection. They cause more damage and the energy is dispersed within the one body so the tend not to hit bystanders. But the person they hit gets messed up bad.
 
SeeAlice said:
Am I incorrect in believing this post and others imply that EN was not in legal possession of his gun whereas Brandon was a "legal gun owner?" If that is what you intended to convey, what is it based upon?

I don't think I've seen anything saying that EN's gun was not legally owned or possessed. He has not been charged for illegal possession of a firearm that I am aware of, but admittedly I am behind in my reading.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/las-vegas-shooting/

I'm not sure if any assumption that He was not legally carrying a handgun is based on EN not being 21 or older, but I tried to find information regarding age requirements for open carry in Nevada on an NRA website. Alas, nothing there. https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/nevada/

Perhaps it is alleged or assumed that a concealed weapon (CCW) permit was required for the manner in which EN carried his firearm that night?

CCW age requirement

Applicants for a concealed weapon permit in Las Vegas/Clark County must be at least 21 years old.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/nevada.pdf


Concealed Weapons Inside Vehicles

"In a vehicle, a weapon may be concealed anywhere within the vehicle, or it may be out in the open within the vehicle. The only place it may not be when in a vehicle is concealed upon a person, such as under a jacket or in a pocket, unless that person has a concealed firearm permit."
http://armsinfo.com/nevada/NVCarryPamphlet.pdf

Based on the above, I don't think EN needed a CCW.

Thanks for any clarification!
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Some posters here read the law as anyone under 21 can't get a hand gun, which is UNTRUE in Nevada. Under 21 cannot buy a handgun from a licensed dealer, but they CAN LEGALLY buy a hand gun from a private person.

EN was a legal gun owner.
 
jayme1133 said:
We agree, lol!! Exactly, It is what LE presented to GJ to get an indictment. LVDA is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. That is why we are all complaining. Can't change the story once AGAIN to convict 2 people. Charge the Meyers too for carrying a gun and on a stupid chase instead of staying home. Whats good for one or two should be good for all involved!
Click to expand...

The LVDA is going to have a problem with the story on record for the grand jury and the complaint story by KK before that because it adds to the idea that LE doesn't believe the Ms story (and BOB was complaining about them) (no damage to car) (no longer looking for road rager) (road rager not associated with EN).

In the complaint for the arrest of EN, The star witness KK stated to LE that EN said the green buick went to the park and waited for EN and flashed a gun at him which started the events in motion that led to a car chase.

This suggests BM was in the car the whole time. It also suggests EN,TM and BM had some kind of business transaction or the elusive back story we don't know about.

The LVDA suggests they are going only deal with the EN killed TM story, which they really can't do because:

EN gets a defense, has competent defense attorneys and will be able to present an alternate story where the road rage never happened and that TM and BM went to the park to confront EN with a gun.

What exactly did Tammy expect to happen then?

TM and BM conspired to commit crimes on EN.

BM should be brought up on charges. In the least, he was conspiring to commit a crime in which his mother was killed during the course of the ONE event.

This one little piece of info from KK that was left out of the GJ testimony changes everything.


I wonder if is possible for Claus to get the charges DISMISSED against EN based on any lies any of the Meyers told in the GJ testimony. (If they can prove it, which they may be able to).

There is still the problem too that DerrickA doesn't own (and the neighbors have never seen) a grey or silver sedan associated with him or his house. So he may not even be involved in the main story and may be able to corroborate EN's story.

I'm sure TM's toxicology will be admitted as part of the trial. That will be interesting.
MOO and all of that.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/00_2015/02-2015/Nowsch-Erich-15F02612X-declaration-&-complaint_Redacted.pdf


MOO TM never went home the first time. Once TM (and presumably BM) went to the park, it was all a one-event story. MOO

I think the Claus brothers will be able to prevent such an alternative story that makes sense that (if the charges don't get dismissed) EN may very well be acquitted because the jurors are going to trust the defense and not the prosecution.

I thought before this would be a plea bargain, but now I'm not so sure. Claus may want the whole story told.
 
You should read EN's story from what was presented to the Grand Jury. He claimed green car left the park. That would be consistent with TM and her daughter leaving and going home. As for the second suspect not having a grey sedan, based on what his neighbor says, I find that laughable.
 
jayme1133 said:
We agree, lol!! Exactly, It is what LE presented to GJ to get an indictment. LVDA is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. That is why we are all complaining. Can't change the story once AGAIN to convict 2 people. Charge the Meyers too for carrying a gun and on a stupid chase instead of staying home. Whats good for one or two should be good for all involved!
Click to expand...

Sometimes I think the fact that the deceased was a middle-aged "soccer-mom" type clouds perceptions of what she was purportedly doing in the moments before her death. If someone were threatened in a road rage altercation, went home and got a gun, drove around looking for the road rage perpetrator, and ended up dying in a shootout- AND if that deceased person looked like EN instead of KM - well, I wonder if the public would find a person like that to be totally innocent in what transpired.
JMO
 
Hiandmighty said:
The LVDA is going to have a problem with the story on record for the grand jury and the complaint story by KK before that because it adds to the idea that LE doesn't believe the Ms story (and BOB was complaining about them) (no damage to car) (no longer looking for road rager) (road rager not associated with EN).

In the complaint for the arrest of EN, The star witness KK stated to LE that EN said the green buick went to the park and waited for EN and flashed a gun at him which started the events in motion that led to a car chase.

This suggests BM was in the car the whole time. It also suggests EN,TM and BM had some kind of business transaction or the elusive back story we don't know about.

The LVDA suggests they are going only deal with the EN killed TM story, which they really can't do because:

EN gets a defense, has competent defense attorneys and will be able to present an alternate story where the road rage never happened and that TM and BM went to the park to confront EN with a gun.

What exactly did Tammy expect to happen then?

TM and BM conspired to commit crimes on EN.

BM should be brought up on charges. In the least, he was conspiring to commit a crime in which his mother was killed during the course of the ONE event.

This one little piece of info from KK that was left out of the GJ testimony changes everything.


I wonder if is possible for Claus to get the charges DISMISSED against EN based on any lies any of the Meyers told in the GJ testimony. (If they can prove it, which they may be able to).

There is still the problem too that DerrickA doesn't own (and the neighbors have never seen) a grey or silver sedan associated with him or his house. So he may not even be involved in the main story and may be able to corroborate EN's story.

I'm sure TM's toxicology will be admitted as part of the trial. That will be interesting.
MOO and all of that.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/00_2015/02-2015/Nowsch-Erich-15F02612X-declaration-&-complaint_Redacted.pdf


MOO TM never went home the first time. Once TM (and presumably BM) went to the park, it was all a one-event story. MOO

I think the Claus brothers will be able to prevent such an alternative story that makes sense that (if the charges don't get dismissed) EN may very well be acquitted because the jurors are going to trust the defense and not the prosecution.

I thought before this would be a plea bargain, but now I'm not so sure. Claus may want the whole story told.
Click to expand...


I wonder if the defense investigation can help LE because I believe LE's hinky meter went off about the Ms story.

The BMs also lawyered up. Victims tend not to do that. LE may be upping the "heat" on them enough that they responded.
 
jennapuppy said:
Sometimes I think the fact that the deceased was a middle-aged "soccer-mom" type clouds perceptions of what she was purportedly doing in the moments before her death. If someone were threatened in a road rage altercation, went home and got a gun, drove around looking for the road rage perpetrator, and ended up dying in a shootout- AND if that deceased person looked like EN instead of KM - well, I wonder if the public would find a person like that to be totally innocent in what transpired.
JMO
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There is no law that says the victim has to be "totally innocent" of what transpired.
You still can't go to her street and shoot her in her own driveway after she run away.
 
Hiandmighty said:
I wonder if the defense investigation can help LE because I believe LE's hinky meter went off about the Ms story.

The BMs also lawyered up. Victims tend not to do that. LE may be upping the "heat" on them enough that they responded.
Click to expand...

I think I am in some alternative universe. LE just made an arrest of the alleged second suspect, and people here are discussing how LE is upping up the heat on the victim.
OK.
 
Hiandmighty said:
In the complaint for the arrest of EN, The star witness KK stated to LE that EN said the green buick went to the park and waited for EN and flashed a gun at him which started the events in motion that led to a car chase.

This suggests BM was in the car the whole time. It also suggests EN,TM and BM had some kind of business transaction or the elusive back story we don't know about.

The LVDA suggests they are going only deal with the EN killed TM story, which they really can't do because:

EN gets a defense, has competent defense attorneys and will be able to present an alternate story where the road rage never happened and that TM and BM went to the park to confront EN with a gun.

What exactly did Tammy expect to happen then?

TM and BM conspired to commit crimes on EN.

BM should be brought up on charges. In the least, he was conspiring to commit a crime in which his mother was killed during the course of the ONE event.

MOO TM never went home the first time. Once TM (and presumably BM) went to the park, it was all a one-event story. MOO
Click to expand...

It's a requirement for them to have left the school for EN to have got into the car. It's in the record that the car arrived earlier and that he wouldn't get into the car until the Buick left. Also with the car it's possible that TM mistook one light colored car for another. As to whether or not they intentionally looked for the car EN was in, I'd want to see evidence as how much time elapsed between the Buick leaving and it returning as the two road rage incidents along with considerable miles plus time spent at home are alleged to have been covered between the Buick leaving and coming back. If it was something very quick it would point to that car being the intended target, but if there was considerable time in-between that would point to the road rage and mistaken identity happening.
 
Hiandmighty said:
I wonder if the defense investigation can help LE because I believe LE's hinky meter went off about the Ms story.

The BMs also lawyered up. Victims tend not to do that. LE may be upping the "heat" on them enough that they responded.
Click to expand...

Whatever the DA is doing, I think they're very reluctant to charge the Meyers. The most I could see the DA at some future point is getting out of these existing cases rather than bringing charges against any of the Meyers unless there was some earth-shattering reveal. More than likely what the DA is doing is trying to get these cases settled via plea.
 
SpanishInquisition said:
It's a requirement for them to have left the school for EN to have got into the car. It's in the record that the car arrived earlier and that he wouldn't get into the car until the Buick left. Also with the car it's possible that TM mistook one light colored car for another. As to whether or not they intentionally looked for the car EN was in, I'd want to see evidence as how much time elapsed between the Buick leaving and it returning as the two road rage incidents along with considerable miles plus time spent at home are alleged to have been covered between the Buick leaving and coming back. If it was something very quick it would point to that car being the intended target, but if there was considerable time in-between that would point to the road rage and mistaken identity happening.
Click to expand...

I imagine the LE and the defense are sorting this out.


It seems like some inconsistences are possibly MOO regarding fear/protection of others/the supposed gang activity on the street.

LE has to sort the wheat from the chaff in everyone's stories.
 
SeeAlice said:
Has this column been discussed yet? (I have no idea how many pages I've missed reading. Sorry.)

Interview of BrM by John L. Smith of Review Journal.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/column...n-tammy-meyers-was-mom-people-would-want-have
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Its been mentioned but I didn't realize until today that there were comments (now closed) to the story.

That sure backfired on the family based on the comments. Poor BM didn't know any better and said a person involved in at least two road raging incidents and who seemed to be a hot head was the kind of mother everyone wanted to have.

No one seemed to buy that.

One poster here said something like: oh look how nice TM seemed that the gang banger apologized to her. I replied that maybe he recognized her and who he was dealing with and her affiliations when she followed him home.

(I wondered how the "gang banger" feels to have been pointed out by BM who even said supposed gang banger went to TM's vigil. I suppose LE will want to interview this gang banger, as gang activity is illegal and a problem in las vegas)

It seems like many of the Ms stories have multiple possible interpretations.
 
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